UK Politics Thread

[STEED]

A mate text me drinks on him tonight celebrating May's departure yesterday and today he text me asking can I bring round to booze tonight..Cheeky sod drunk it all.

[Jimbuna]

It would appear the inevitable internal bickering has commenced.

Conservative leadership contenders have clashed over Brexit as the race to succeed Theresa May in No 10 begins.

Rory Stewart said he would not serve under rival Boris Johnson because of his backing for a no-deal exit.

Health Secretary Matt Hancock, the fifth Tory to enter the race, said Mrs May's successor must be more "brutally honest" about the "trade-offs" required to get a deal through Parliament.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48403705

[STEED]

Originally Posted by Jimbuna

It would appear the inevitable internal bickering has commenced.

Wrong...



This...

[Moonlight]

Steve Baker MP answers #Brexit questions at European Scrutiny Committee.

What Steve Baker MP has basically said in this video is that there has been a conspiracy at the heart of Government to deliver "as little of Brexit as possible"...Leavers have feared a Brexit Betrayal was being engineered in Whitehall and his evidence to this committee has proven it.

I watched it all but the first 10 minutes is all you need to see.

[Catfish]

Not exactly new. How can he take for granted that the people who voted for brexit wanted a "no deal" brexit ?

[Mr Quatro]

Being an American I had to look up the meaning of 'Whitehall' ... plus it's pretty embarrasing that UK politics thread is more interesting than the US politics thread

Whitehall is a road in the City of Westminster, Central London, which forms the first part of the A3212 road from Trafalgar Square to Chelsea. It is the main thoroughfare running south from Trafalgar Square towards Parliament Square. The street is recognised as the centre of the Government of the United Kingdom and is lined with numerous departments and ministries, including the Ministry of Defence, Horse Guards and the Cabinet Office. Consequently, the name 'Whitehall' is used as a metonym for the British civil service and government, and as the geographic name for the surrounding area.
The name was taken from the Palace of Whitehall that was the residence of Kings Henry VIII through to William III, before its destruction by fire in 1698; only the Banqueting House survived. Whitehall was originally a wide road that led to the front of the palace; the route to the south was widened in the 18th century following the destruction of the palace.

But I still don't understand where this video is putting the blame ... Big gov against the peoples will?

[STEED]

Tory leadership: Gove becomes eighth candidate to enter race

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48411784

Tory leadership: Dominic Raab and Andrea Leadsom enter race

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48410734




Tory leadership candidates so far

Boris Johnson 70%
Esther McVey 20%
Jeremy Hunt 60%
Rory Stewart 40%
Matt Hancock 40%
Dominic Raab 50%
Andrea Leadsom 40%
Michael Gove 50%
(% is my predictions so far)

[STEED]

Originally Posted by Mr Quatro

Being an American-UK politics thread is more interesting than the US politics thread

Yea its those wonderful hot cross buns Jim makes.

And we are a bit more light-harted and relaxed here.

[Jimbuna]

Do you know of any real news other than that which was known with almost certainty a few days ago.

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Moonlight

Steve Baker MP answers #Brexit questions at European Scrutiny Committee.

What Steve Baker MP has basically said in this video is that there has been a conspiracy at the heart of Government to deliver "as little of Brexit as possible"...Leavers have feared a Brexit Betrayal was being engineered in Whitehall and his evidence to this committee has proven it.

I watched it all but the first 10 minutes is all you need to see.

Still need to watch it, but if that is what he said, then it is the same what I say since 2 years. May'S saw it as her job to render an exit from the eU meanignless and doing so in a way that the referendum voters would not go after the politixcal caste's throats.

May never had any intention to deliver a meaningful brexit worth the name. Never. Thats why I accuse her of treason against the referendum voters.

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Catfish

Not exactly new. How can he take for granted that the people who voted for brexit wanted a "no deal" brexit ?

Exit means exit. It does not mean a disguised stay.

Next we discuss the meaning of up and down. I "up" really meaning something libe "above down" Couldn'T it be that "down"means towards the sky, and "up" being used to indicate an intention to dive to the bottom? Lets be careful.



And is left really the side where your thumb is right, couldnt it be meant to indicate that it is exactly the other way around?

Until these important questions gets solved according to EU norms, exit means exit. Means: "leave". Still so.

[Jimbuna]

Assuming the Brexit Party win heavily after the votes are counted tonight I think we all know the disruption that could potentially come about in the EU Parliament, especially if like-minded parties from other EU countrirs band together as is expected.

My concern is what will happen in the UK after that should there be a general election which is a possibility because Steptoe and his gallant band of lefties have already announced they will be calling for a vote of no confidence at the conclusion of the Tory leadership election.

The Brexit Party are a one trick pony with no policies regarding running the country and shoule they fare as well in a general election may well hold the balance of power in a future coalition government.

If that were to be the case, heaven help us.

[Skybird]

Heaven help you anyway. You already are in the middle of the mess. In the end, you can



- cancel brexit. And betray those who voted for it, and risk increasing polarization in society and a further desintegrating of your political and constitutional order.


- do a soft brexit. And betray those who voted for it, and risk increasing polarization in society and a further desintegrating of your political and constitutional order.


- do a hard brexit. And suffer from two wasted years that are lost for needed preparations in advance, and risk increasing polarization in society and a further desintegrating of your poltical and constitutional order.


- vote Labour in upcoming elections, and then do a soft brexit, then betray those who voted for it, and risk increasing polarization in soceity and a further desintegrating of your political and constitutional order.


I scenarios 1, 2 and 4, the EU gains a triumphant victory over you impertinent peasants. In scenario 3 the eU gains a robust victory over you impertinent peasants. In scenarios 1,2,3 and 4, Moscos wins a strategic victory, since afert the US and parts of other EU nations, the UK as a Western key power and most robust opponent to Russia is lured into becoming exclusively busy with itself and thus beig unavailable for global matters where it could get in the way of Russian interests. Moscows investments into breeding polarization into the poltical structure of the West, heavily pays off already now.

[STEED]

There would be no Brexit Party if that deceiver May kept to her word "Brexit means Brexit" with or without a deal for better or worst it should have all been dusted back in March. Yes we all know they have done well and why? because people are fed up with the Con/Lab party's hoping it will deliver the message..GET ON WITH IT.

I know they will just go on their merry way and crap over the voters. About bloody time voters wake up! I know I have said this so many bloody times trying to get people to wake up but no they don't want to.

"I'M MAD AS HELL AND I'M NOT GOING TO TAKE THIS ANY MORE"

And who ever wins the Tory leadership contest is going to get slapped down good and hard by the EU in their vain attempt to get a new deal.

[Skybird]

In the end:


the problem is that by the rules members of parliament should follow their own rules and should base these rules on the will and should act ion behalf of the intentions of the voters who voted for them, or in a referendum (accepted to be binding by all - that was part of its rules) voiced what they want their elected politicians to do. While this is so, the elected politicians stubbornly refuse to fulfill what their voters by majority told them to do. And this is at the root of the problems.



So the basic problem is a confrontation between elected and electorate. those who got elected should be accountable, liable to those who elected them. But they behave as if it is the other way around, almost, and if they were not to beh held accountable themselves at all, and could do whatever they want, even violating the will of those who elected them.



That people who go voting every four or five years usually know almost nothign about matters they allow to form their decision (if they do not even vote by family tradition and habit, which is an argument aganst elections itself already), does not make it any better.



That is a feudal self-understanding. of the pltical caste. Those in power behave as if they have a claim for getting elected - and owning the electorate - no matter what they do themselves. I wonder whether the medieval really is out of the minds of those in power.


As is known, I am strictly against general elections and letting every clueless Peter and meritless, non-contributing Paul have a say. Still most people surrender to this understanding of how the show shoud be run. Okay then, I then call for nothing more than to follow these your own, accepted rules. But it seems even this minimum already is too much asked for. Thats why I see this whole monkey business as totally untrustworthy und unworthy and do not accept to see it as binding for my own decision of where to spend my loyalty on and why, and where better to abstain. Where I follow their rules, I do so due to their superior force. In other words, it is about the law of the jungle, and the others usually have far more clubbers and pistoleros than I have.



Its not just in Britain like this. Its everywhere, but this is the UK thread, and so I describe it under that premisse. But the prnciple of compelte arbitrariness has been installed in germany as well, by Merkel. This woman has made so many compelte u-turns on her own former claims and positons by now that one wonders why she does not fly apart at all possible directions simultaneously and disperses like a cloud of gas.


Complete arbitrariness has become the dominant dogma of the post-democratic political era that we are caught in.