UK Politics Thread - Page 640

blackswan40 · 03-27-19, 07:20 AM

Time to put the Kettle on make a brew granny says things always look better after a brew.
I'll put on some music on the radiogram

Catfish · 03-27-19, 07:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skybird

So this all has degenerated into a game about pure personal animsoities then? I mean her deal gets not voted for when she stays, but when she leaves, the very same deal with the very same cinditions get passed? Have they now lost all remaning marbles? [...]

They want May to resign as soon as it passes. As soon as she resigns, the brexit "European Research Group" will then appoint a PM of their own (Rees-Mogg) and then destroy the Withdrawal Agreement. And then it will get even funnier..
Not.

Jimbuna · 03-27-19, 07:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Catfish

They want May to resign as soon as it passes. As soon as she resigns, the brexit "European Research Group" will then appoint a PM of their own (Rees-Mogg) and then destroy the Withdrawal Agreement. And then it will get even funnier..
Not.

Yep, it's quite frightening when you consider what might lie ahead

Skybird · 03-27-19, 08:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Catfish

They want May to resign as soon as it passes. As soon as she resigns, the brexit "European Research Group" will then appoint a PM of their own (Rees-Mogg) and then destroy the Withdrawal Agreement. And then it will get even funnier..
Not.

Do I misunderstand something there? If the price for passing the May Brexit deal is May stepping down, and she steps down, the "agreement" would mean the deal gets passed. Then you have a soft Brexit with the option of Backstop called up by the EU, the parliament then would hav edecided so. How could this mean that the hardliners want to destroy it when they just have passed it?

Catfish · 03-27-19, 08:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skybird

[...] If the price for passing the May Brexit deal is May stepping down, and she steps down, the "agreement" would mean the deal gets passed. Then you have a soft Brexit with the option of Backstop called up by the EU, the parliament then would have decided so. How could this mean that the hardliners want to destroy it when they just have passed it?

Rees-Mogg or Johnson or whatever their names are do not want this kind of "soft" brexit, and they do not want to stay. They fear that if May's deal fails, the UK will stay in the EU and some rich brexitears will lose their investments. So they support her, better this brexit than none.

They obviously have no own plan or idea, and it is not necessary after all, if they go out the hard way.

So after they have secured their majority they will do all to get their "hard" brexit, at least this is what read between Mogg's lines. Not that i claim to really understand what is going on there.

Whatever happens, it has nothing to do with the will of the poeple, this has become obvious last weekend.

Jimbuna · 03-27-19, 08:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Catfish

Whatever happens, it has nothing to do with the will of the poeple, this has become obvious last weekend.

On that we certainly both agree

My biggesr fear now is the Tories are in total disarray and that could lead to a general election with Steptoe having a fair chance of winning.

Skybird · 03-27-19, 09:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Catfish

Rees-Mogg or Johnson or whatever their names are do not want this kind of "soft" brexit, and they do not want to stay. They fear that if May's deal fails, the UK will stay in the EU and some rich brexitears will lose their investments. So they support her, better this brexit than none.

They obviously have no own plan or idea, and it is not necessary after all, if they go out the hard way.

So after they have secured their majority they will do all to get their "hard" brexit, at least this is what read between Mogg's lines. Not that i claim to really understand what is going on there.

Whatever happens, it has nothing to do with the will of the poeple, this has become obvious last weekend.

Yeah yeah I know all that, but it doe snot answer my question. If May made it the condition , the price for her withdrawel that parliament accepts the soft Brexit plus Backstop deal the negotiated, and this deal netween her and parliament gets carried out, the terms like this, the conditions fulfilled, then the Brexit deal of May, unaltered, is passed, with May not being PM anymore. The very same deal would not get passed if May stays.

So the question is whether parliament is really about the UK-EU Brexit deal's conditions, or the personell matter of May. Because the Brexit deal as negotiated with the EU, would be the same.

That Johnson and Corbyn want to fly to the moon and do samba there, does not change this.

What it should be about, is the Brexit conditions between the UK and the EU. This should be the focus for house memebers when making their decision. What it really seems to be about now is only the personnel matter of May.

Catfish · 03-27-19, 09:37 AM

They just want to divert from their own incompetence, they had and have no plan. Things work best for them when the economy goes down, at least for the planned interval, since they have betted on an economic downfall of the UK.

Quote:

What it really seems to be about now is only the personnel matter of May.

The blame game is now on against May, until it will return to the EU as the scapegoat.

skidman · 03-27-19, 12:34 PM

Name your poison:

A B C D E F G H I J K L M N O P ?

https://www.prospectmagazine.co.uk/p...cow-parliament

For me it's B. Stop the madness.

STEED · 03-27-19, 01:56 PM

Here we go folks eight all in one vote tonight on the Brexit options so settle back with a cup of coffee and play some music in the background, I got my selection of "Heart" on.

But just before the kick off some news..

Quote:

Theresa May has promised Tory MPs she will stand down if they back her EU withdrawal deal.

She told backbench Tories: "I am prepared to leave this job earlier than I intended in order to do what is right for our country and our party."

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-47725529

Who will replace her? Who cares their all load of....

EARLY NEWS - ERG Mogg will support the Government if the DUP abstains. Buffoon Boris reported he too will do the same.

15 to 20 ERG MP's reported will not support the Government.

DUP confirm they can not back the Government.
https://news.sky.com/story/dup-wont-...of-uk-11676810

I will be updating this post this evening too keep jim happy not multi rapid posts.

More to follow..

Quote:

No-deal Brexit - Leave the EU on 12 April without a deal - Tory MP John Baron

Common Market 2.0 - The UK joins the European Economic Area and negotiates a temporary customs union until alternative arrangements can be found - Tory MP Nick Boles

EFTA/EEA - Similar to Common Market 2.0 but rejects any kind of customs union with the EU and says the Irish backstop must be replaced with alternative arrangements - Tory MP George Eustice

Customs union - Calls for the UK to negotiate a permanent customs union with the EU after Brexit - Tory MP Ken Clarke

Labour's alternative plan - A customs union with the EU and "close alignment" with the single market - Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn

Revoke Article 50 - Cancel Brexit if the UK gets within days of leaving without a deal. MPs would be asked to vote on a no-deal exit and if they rejected that, Article 50 would be revoked - SNP MP Joanna Cherry

Confirmatory public vote - Parliament cannot ratify or implement any agreement on the UK's withdrawal and future relationship "unless and until they have been approved by the people of the UK in a confirmatory public ballot" - Labour MP Margaret Beckett

Malthouse Plan B - The UK makes its budgetary contributions to the EU to the end of 2020 and agrees with the EU a period of two years in which UK goods have full access to the EU - Tory MP Marcus Fysh

RESULTS ALL REJECTED

No-deal Brexit NO
Common Market 2.0 NO
EFTA/EEA NO
Customs union NO
Labour's alternative plan NO
Revoke Article 50 NO
Confirmatory public vote NO
Malthouse Plan B NO

Quote:

RESULT ON -
STATUTORY INSTRUMENT -

MPs back delaying Brexit
The House of Commons has overwhelmingly voted in favour of changing the date of Brexit in UK law, following the EU's granting of an extension to the Article 50 negotiating period.
Ayes: 441
Noes: 105
Majority: 336

Quote:

MPs fail to back any alternative Brexit plan
The results of the indicative votes in the Commons have just been announced.
They are:
Option B: Leave the EU without a deal on 12th April
Ayes 160Noes 400
Option D: Norway + model (remain in single market, customs arrangement, EFTA)
Ayes 188
Noes 283
Option H: Norway model, without a customs union (EEA + EFTA).
Ayes: 65Noes: 377
Option J: Leave the EU with a UK-wide customs union.
Ayes: 264Noes: 272
Option K: Permanent customs union, including alignment with single market on future EU rights and regulations
Ayes: 237Noes: 307
Option L: Revoke Article 50 if no-deal Brexit is not explicitly approved by MPs a day before we are due to leave
Ayes: 184Noes: 293
Option M: Any withdrawal agreement must be put to the public in a ‘confirmatory’ second referendum
Ayes: 268Noes: 295
Option O: If no withdrawal agreement agreed, seek "standstill" agreement with the EU while negotiating trade deal
Ayes: 139Noes: 422

POST AWAY FOLKS, ALL DONE FOR NOW.

Skybird · 03-27-19, 02:40 PM

I still fail to see any sign of reasonability in this linking between her withdrawel, and her deal with the EU being passed. Nothing I heard and red about it in the past 48 hours gave me a clue.

If I were a member of house, and have my arguments to oppose her deal with the EU, why would I want to pass it if she steps back...? In how far does this withdrawel of her change the conditions of the Brexit treaty with the EU that I originally had and still have my arguments against?? Can somebody please explain this nonsense to me.

Isnt the issue of who is PM completely irrelevant? Isnt it the conditions of the treaty with the eU that is exclusively relevant?

STEED · 03-27-19, 04:49 PM

Well looks like two options only remain, 2nd referendum or a general election.

mapuc · 03-27-19, 05:03 PM

Have been following live transmission from the English parliament throughout the evening and I'm wondering how the English people is feeling about this

And I can't figure out if it's a horror, thriller or a comedian they are witness to from the English parliament.

Markus

Skybird · 03-27-19, 05:49 PM

Now that May has masterfully locked down each and everything, I dare a bet:

May will be forced out. And then they hold a second referendum. And then Brexit is over.

I forecast this with a probability of around 2:1.

And I stick to what I said severla times and assumed tro be a realistic option form beginning on: this is exactly the way the PM wanted to unfold and end this. She bnever was pro Brexit, and before the referendum she was ant-i Brexit. She had to find a way to prevent Brexit without the voters turning against the class. And it will be saids voters that now will end it. Much drama was needed to make this fake show convincing, and she got as much drama as one could demand.

Mission accomplished, objective acchieved.

A lot can be learned about how rotten and corrupt our democratic system is. Mind you, during the EU constitution dictate and three nations' people rejecting it, they just repeated it to get the result that they wanted, and England in the form of Gordon Brown , knowing that a referendum would reject it, did cancel/prevent it in the first alltogether.

I spit on this fake&freak show. When words mean nothing anymore, then neither meaningful communicaiton os possible nor trusting in anyone or anything is justified anymore. It all turns into noise, and waste of breath and time.

In our "democracies", the so-called elites create themselves the people that they want to have.

skidman · 03-27-19, 05:50 PM

So,

the PM is officially a lame duck now

the government and the house are both dysfunctional

a second referendum would further increase disruption of the British people

GE would be the way to go, but there is not sufficient time (extension must end before the European election)

-> hard Brexit, almost everybody loses, Mercer, Bannon, Banks, Putin, CA and AIQ have won.

And who is to blame?

03-27-19, 12:34 PM	#9594
skidman Ace of the Deep Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: Near the Dutch mountains Posts: 1,147 Downloads: 85 Uploads: 0	Name your poison: A B C D E F G H I J K L M N O P ? https://www.prospectmagazine.co.uk/p...cow-parliament For me it's B. Stop the madness. Last edited by skidman; 03-27-19 at 01:05 PM.

03-27-19, 02:40 PM	#9596
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 40,636 Downloads: 9 Uploads: 0	I still fail to see any sign of reasonability in this linking between her withdrawel, and her deal with the EU being passed. Nothing I heard and red about it in the past 48 hours gave me a clue. If I were a member of house, and have my arguments to oppose her deal with the EU, why would I want to pass it if she steps back...? In how far does this withdrawel of her change the conditions of the Brexit treaty with the EU that I originally had and still have my arguments against?? Can somebody please explain this nonsense to me. Isnt the issue of who is PM completely irrelevant? Isnt it the conditions of the treaty with the eU that is exclusively relevant? __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.

03-27-19, 04:49 PM	#9597
STEED Lucky Jack Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Down Town UK Posts: 27,695 Downloads: 89 Uploads: 48	Well looks like two options only remain, 2nd referendum or a general election. __________________ Dr Who rest in peace 1963-2017. To borrow Davros saying...I NAME YOU CHIBNALL THE DESTROYER OF DR WHO YOU KILLED IT!

03-27-19, 05:49 PM	#9599
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 40,636 Downloads: 9 Uploads: 0	Now that May has masterfully locked down each and everything, I dare a bet: May will be forced out. And then they hold a second referendum. And then Brexit is over. I forecast this with a probability of around 2:1. And I stick to what I said severla times and assumed tro be a realistic option form beginning on: this is exactly the way the PM wanted to unfold and end this. She bnever was pro Brexit, and before the referendum she was ant-i Brexit. She had to find a way to prevent Brexit without the voters turning against the class. And it will be saids voters that now will end it. Much drama was needed to make this fake show convincing, and she got as much drama as one could demand. Mission accomplished, objective acchieved. A lot can be learned about how rotten and corrupt our democratic system is. Mind you, during the EU constitution dictate and three nations' people rejecting it, they just repeated it to get the result that they wanted, and England in the form of Gordon Brown , knowing that a referendum would reject it, did cancel/prevent it in the first alltogether. I spit on this fake&freak show. When words mean nothing anymore, then neither meaningful communicaiton os possible nor trusting in anyone or anything is justified anymore. It all turns into noise, and waste of breath and time. In our "democracies", the so-called elites create themselves the people that they want to have. __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.

03-27-19, 07:20 AM	#9586
blackswan40 LSH-2022 Liaison Officer Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: IN THE STEEL SHARKS VIRTUAL OCEAN Posts: 2,520 Downloads: 590 Uploads: 30	Time to put the Kettle on make a brew granny says things always look better after a brew. I'll put on some music on the radiogram

03-27-19, 05:03 PM	#9598
mapuc Fleet Admiral Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Denmark Posts: 18,078 Downloads: 37 Uploads: 0	Have been following live transmission from the English parliament throughout the evening and I'm wondering how the English people is feeling about this And I can't figure out if it's a horror, thriller or a comedian they are witness to from the English parliament. Markus

03-27-19, 05:50 PM	#9600
skidman Ace of the Deep Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: Near the Dutch mountains Posts: 1,147 Downloads: 85 Uploads: 0	So, the PM is officially a lame duck now the government and the house are both dysfunctional a second referendum would further increase disruption of the British people GE would be the way to go, but there is not sufficient time (extension must end before the European election) -> hard Brexit, almost everybody loses, Mercer, Bannon, Banks, Putin, CA and AIQ have won. And who is to blame?