US Politics Thread 2016-2020

[August]

If what Trump did is impeachable, and I don't agree that it is, then Democrat Senators asking Ukraine for help against Trump in the Mueller investigation is impeachable as well or does this only apply to Republicans?

[mapuc]

Originally Posted by Mr Quatro

A successful impeachment would lead to an even worse case scenario ...

Your comment made me remember some thoughts I had about this eventually impeachment.

If Trump is impeached, what will happen on the political scene and in the society ?

Will there be political chaos ?

Trump is, as I see it, the President who have the most dedicated supporters and even the most haters among the American voters.

It is therefore interesting to see what's going to happen.

I don't think there will be riot in the streets, maybe some demonstration.

Markus

[em2nought]

Originally Posted by Mr Quatro

A successful impeachment would lead to an even worse case scenario ...

My guess would be one side aiming dirty lawyers, lousy comedians, yellow journalists, and the occasional crying child at the opposition, the other side would be aiming their evil "weapons of war".

[Mr Quatro]

Originally Posted by mapuc

Your comment made me remember some thoughts I had about this eventually impeachment.

If Trump is impeached, what will happen on the political scene and in the society ?

Will there be political chaos ?

Trump is, as I see it, the President who have the most dedicated supporters and even the most haters among the American voters.

It is therefore interesting to see what's going to happen.

I don't think there will be riot in the streets, maybe some demonstration.

Markus

No Markus more fear of the proposed democrats policies than a riot ...

General health care for all
Open borders
All student loans paid in full
Green plan that would cost 63 trillion dollars
Campaign promises that we haven't even heard of yet

[Dowly]

Originally Posted by August

If what Trump did is impeachable, and I don't agree that it is, then Democrat Senators asking Ukraine for help against Trump in the Mueller investigation is impeachable as well or does this only apply to Republicans?

It's not even close to same. Senators asking Ukraine to cooperate with an on-going, official investigation as per the 1998 treaty of mutual legal assistance is widely different than the President of the United States asking the President of Ukraine to open an investigation into a private US citizen.

[eddie]

Originally Posted by Mr Quatro

No Markus more fear of the proposed democrats policies than a riot ...

General health care for all
Open borders
All student loans paid in full
Green plan that would cost 63 trillion dollars
Campaign promises that we haven't even heard of yet

As compared to Republican policies where bringing down the deficit is a stinking joke we will all pay for! Care to try for 2 trillion? are the Trumpettes up for it!

[Hawk66]

When I look at the state of the Republican Party....Reagan and McCain would turn in the grave. This party has lost all its values those leader and others represented once - domestic and foreign. They made America acting as a bright beacon - uniting most people in the West behind it - to the benefit of all, including their own citizens.

They seem to be truly desperate if they only think they can "survive" following this president, who would be more suitable as a leader for North Korea or a similar state.

It is hard to believe that 35-40% still seem to buy the lying and conspiracy theory of the current administration. But yeah, in Europe we seem to follow close, nowadays.

[Skybird]

First two Republican governors stepped forward and demand an inquiry. What is even more stunning is how relatively quiet the Republicans have become. They were more noisy in the Donald's defence on earlier occasions. So far they added 1 and 1 and always got a result of 11. Right now it seems they improved to getting a result of Roman number II, which is much closer to the truth, at least some of them might finally come to get the trick with Arab numbers. Media report a deep rift is going through the party.

[Dowly]

Perhaps they've finally understood how damaging it would be to defend Trump, especially if dems go full broadside and bring everything for all to see.

[u crank]

I cannot see how this whole 'whistleblower complaint' as a basis for impeachment will turn out well for the Democrats. I can see one casualty being Joe Biden's campaign for the Dem nomination. It won't look good for Obama as well. A lot of stuff that we don't know about the Biden's corruption will come out if there is an impeachment.

I think Nancy Pelosi has stepped in it. The Democrat party should be spending all of it's time and energy to get a viable candidate for the 2020 election. So far they haven't. Despite all of his weaknesses Biden is their most reasonable candidate and now they are going to hurt him by exposing his dealings with his son. It's already public knowledge but now it will be in the Fox news cycle every day.

Originally Posted by Dowly

Perhaps they've finally understood how damaging it would be to defend Trump, especially if dems go full broadside and bring everything for all to see.

Sorry but no. If you are a Republican Senator in a deep red district and you vote to remove a Republican President from office for something as shady as the 'whistleblower complaint' your career is over. It's going to have to be something a lot more damaging than that. Democratic Senators did the same thing in acquitting Bill Clinton.

Republican voters have long realised that for the Democrats, there is only one kind of legitimate presidential election: one where they win.

But yes many Republicans are conflicted. I think Kevin D. Williamson sums it up the best.

1) I am glad that Hillary Rodham Clinton is not the president;

2) Based on what we know right now, I do not want to see Donald Trump impeached and removed from office;

3) I do not want to see Elizabeth Warren being sworn in as president in January 2021;

4) Donald Trump cannot be gone soon enough.

[Bilge_Rat]

Originally Posted by u crank

Sorry but no. If you are a Republican Senator in a deep red district and you vote to remove a Republican President from office for something as shady as the 'whistleblower complaint' your career is over. It's going to have to be something a lot more damaging than that. Democratic Senators did the same thing in acquitting Bill Clinton.

Exactly, the GOP Senators will not vote to convict based on this.

Personally, I am not convinced the Dems will really impeach. If Pelosi was serious, she would follow the Watergate pattern and set up a special committe with a respected congressman as the head. Adam Schiff is just a political hack with no credibility. This smells more like Pelosi wanting to appease her base.

Even if the House votes to impeach, I don't expect a full blown trial in the Senate. I would not be surprised if McConnell either just shelves the whole thing until after the 2020 election or just has the Senate dismiss the charge on the basis that there is no merit to it.

[Skybird]

The dems had no choice. Thjey had to take this very risky path in the light of the recently released facts. If they would not take these as a reaosn to go after Trump'S throat, they would have lost all credibility and the whole concept of impeachment would have become a hollow, dead corpus. Thei8r risk lies in that if they do not succeed, Trump will trumpted his Trumpian triumph out into the world and his followers would shout even louder, the elections then probably would already be a dead race.



Risky it is, but they had no choice.



Personally I think this time it may not be as simple for Trump anymore. He is in danger. But then, the whole institution of the presidency is in danger - due to him.


The season is opened.



And Selenskij. What a carricature of a "leader".

[u crank]

Originally Posted by Skybird

The dems had no choice.

Sorry but no. If you cannot find a crime that is a sure thing impeachable offence that would have bipartisan support then you are just going through the motions. Trump will not be removed from office like that. It is a waste of political capital that may come back to bite them in the butt.

One has to wonder about the Democrat party brain trust. Did Nancy Pelosi consult with DNC chair Tom Perez before deciding on an impeachment inquiry without actually seeing or reading the relevant documents? How would that conversation have gone?

Tom.." You know this is going to expose Joe don't you?

Nancy.." yea but orange man bad!!"

They are 13 months out from an election and you destroy the front runners chances. What was she thinking? One might be tempted to think it might be intentional. No .. they wouldn't do that would they? They wouldn't rig a primary would they? Oh wait yea they would. Just ask Bernie Sanders.

[AVGWarhawk]

Originally Posted by Skybird

The dems had no choice. Thjey had to take this very risky path in the light of the recently released facts. If they would not take these as a reaosn to go after Trump'S throat, they would have lost all credibility and the whole concept of impeachment would have become a hollow, dead corpus. Thei8r risk lies in that if they do not succeed, Trump will trumpted his Trumpian triumph out into the world and his followers would shout even louder, the elections then probably would already be a dead race.



Risky it is, but they had no choice.



Personally I think this time it may not be as simple for Trump anymore. He is in danger. But then, the whole institution of the presidency is in danger - due to him.


The season is opened.



And Selenskij. What a carricature of a "leader".

Never get past the Senate.

The Crypt Keeper Pelosi had plenty of choices.

[AVGWarhawk]

Originally Posted by Bilge_Rat

Exactly, the GOP Senators will not vote to convict based on this.

Personally, I am not convinced the Dems will really impeach. If Pelosi was serious, she would follow the Watergate pattern and set up a special committe with a respected congressman as the head. Adam Schiff is just a political hack with no credibility. This smells more like Pelosi wanting to appease her base.

Even if the House votes to impeach, I don't expect a full blown trial in the Senate. I would not be surprised if McConnell either just shelves the whole thing until after the 2020 election or just has the Senate dismiss the charge on the basis that there is no merit to it.

McConnell will shelve it.