[REL] Natural Sinking Mechanics - Page 45

WernerSobe · 02-13-08, 01:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrBeast

Quote:

Originally Posted by WernerSobe

Quote:

Originally Posted by tedhealy

Even if they ran deep by 10-15 feet should they be busting a 24 foot draft ship in two?

no. its definetely not right. It doesnt happen to me. I have the same setup but without RSRD

Hm...RSRDC doesn't affect torpedoes, though. And only the .sim file of the Okinoshima, with regards to ships. :hmm:

but it does change cargo loadout. If there is even only one crate of ammo the entire ship will blow. Its the secondary explosions that trigger the keel zone.

tedhealy · 02-13-08, 02:20 PM

Ok, so it sounds like NSM4 and RSRD don't play well together?

In addition to breaking ships in half with contact torpedoes, I noticed that I was sinking tankers with one torpedo. They didn't break in half, but would explode after the hit.

So it seems to me that running NSM4 with RSRD actually causes the opposite of NSM's goals, ships now take even less torpedoes to sink and go down quickly in my limited experience with the two.

Can I go back to NSM3.3 with TM1.7.6 and RSRD? Are those compatible?

:FI:Rabitski · 02-13-08, 03:23 PM

Is this a problem that's fixable? or should those of that are running RSRD switch back to NSM3?

Wilcke · 02-13-08, 03:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tedhealy

Ok, so it sounds like NSM4 and RSRD don't play well together?

In addition to breaking ships in half with contact torpedoes, I noticed that I was sinking tankers with one torpedo. They didn't break in half, but would explode after the hit.

So it seems to me that running NSM4 with RSRD actually causes the opposite of NSM's goals, ships now take even less torpedoes to sink and go down quickly in my limited experience with the two.

Can I go back to NSM3.3 with TM1.7.6 and RSRD? Are those compatible?

I have not looked at the innards of NSM3.3 in a long time ago as I merged it with Trigger Maru but I think it worked well. It did not have the extended keel compartment that Werner added to NSM4. Well, I am going to pull NSM4 out I am seeing the same behavior as you are. RSRD is indispensable in my MOD lineup. To each his own and I am not criticizing Werner's work since I really do like the MOD.

Torps · 02-13-08, 04:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WernerSobe

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrBeast

Quote:

Originally Posted by WernerSobe

Quote:

Originally Posted by tedhealy

Even if they ran deep by 10-15 feet should they be busting a 24 foot draft ship in two?

no. its definetely not right. It doesnt happen to me. I have the same setup but without RSRD

Hm...RSRDC doesn't affect torpedoes, though. And only the .sim file of the Okinoshima, with regards to ships. :hmm:

but it does change cargo loadout. If there is even only one crate of ammo the entire ship will blow. Its the secondary explosions that trigger the keel zone.

Anyway to get the two to work together?

tedhealy · 02-13-08, 04:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wilcke

I have not looked at the innards of NSM3.3 in a long time ago as I merged it with Trigger Maru but I think it worked well. It did not have the extended keel compartment that Werner added to NSM4. Well, I am going to pull NSM4 out I am seeing the same behavior as you are. RSRD is indispensable in my MOD lineup. To each his own and I am not criticizing Werner's work since I really do like the MOD.

Ok, I'll definitely give NSM3.3 a go with the latest TM and RSRD.

Tough choices, I definitely do not want to give up RSRD, but I also don't want to give up natural sinking

tedhealy · 02-13-08, 05:36 PM

I went back to NSM3.3 with the 3.3 hardcore torpedo mod. Now that's the NSM I remember.

I torpedoed a large modern composite going about 11-12 knots, 4 fish fired all set for contact at 6 feet depth, 3 hits, 1 dud. The 2 hits were aft of the the funnel at 11:54. She kept on going but with observations at 60 second intervals I could tell she was flooding in the stern. Speed slowed to about 5 or 6 knots some 5 minutes later at about 12:00. Stern observed way down at or below water line while the bow is rising at 12:05, speed 1-2 knot. 12:10, sunk message appears as she slides in backwards, bow way up in the air. 12:13, ship vanishes beneath the waves.

No major explosions or broken keels. Wasn't even a fire on deck until the stern went below the waterline.

AlmightyTallest · 02-13-08, 05:53 PM

I already have a long campaign career going with RSRD 3 and NSM 4 Classic, can I safely rollback to NSM 3.3 that's in TMaru 1.7.6 without ruining my carrer in game?

Galanti · 02-13-08, 07:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlmightyTallest

I already have a long campaign career going with RSRD 3 and NSM 4 Classic, can I safely rollback to NSM 3.3 that's in TMaru 1.7.6 without ruining my carrer in game?

It's safer to do it in port, but I'm 99% it won't ruin your career.

As a stopgap measure until you get to port, i suggest opening your Zones.cfg (in the root of your Data folder), finding this entry:

[NSKeel]
Category=Keel
Multiplier=10.0
Flotability=10.0
HitPoints=150
Destructible=No
Armor Level=20
Critic Flotation=0.5
Critical=Yes
Critical Chance=1.0
FloodingTime=200
CargoType=Ammo

And change CargoType=Ammo to CargoType=None. This should stop you from breaking ships in 2 with contact shots. It will also stop you from breaking them in 2 with mag shots, though.

Galanti · 02-13-08, 07:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tedhealy

Ok, so it sounds like NSM4 and RSRD don't play well together?

In addition to breaking ships in half with contact torpedoes, I noticed that I was sinking tankers with one torpedo. They didn't break in half, but would explode after the hit.

So it seems to me that running NSM4 with RSRD actually causes the opposite of NSM's goals, ships now take even less torpedoes to sink and go down quickly in my limited experience with the two.

Can I go back to NSM3.3 with TM1.7.6 and RSRD? Are those compatible?

I seems like exploding ammo is the culprit between NSM 4 and RSRD, but I ran a few patrols with RSRD and NSM 3.3 without any abnormal behavior.

WernerSobe · 02-14-08, 05:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Galanti

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlmightyTallest

I already have a long campaign career going with RSRD 3 and NSM 4 Classic, can I safely rollback to NSM 3.3 that's in TMaru 1.7.6 without ruining my carrer in game?

It's safer to do it in port, but I'm 99% it won't ruin your career.

As a stopgap measure until you get to port, i suggest opening your Zones.cfg (in the root of your Data folder), finding this entry:

[NSKeel]
Category=Keel
Multiplier=10.0
Flotability=10.0
HitPoints=150
Destructible=No
Armor Level=20
Critic Flotation=0.5
Critical=Yes
Critical Chance=1.0
FloodingTime=200
CargoType=Ammo

And change CargoType=Ammo to CargoType=None. This should stop you from breaking ships in 2 with contact shots. It will also stop you from breaking them in 2 with mag shots, though.

This is the best alternative i can suggest yet. Im working on a fix but this will take a while. So far you can disable The keel zone by the method above. You will still have all nsm4 features but without breaking ships.

DrBeast · 02-14-08, 05:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WernerSobe

Im working on a fix but this will take a while.

Will lowering either CargoExplosionRange or AmmoForceMultiplier do the trick? I remember it was the first parameter that gave me nasty side-effects when I was merging the NSM4 and ROW zones.cfg files.

:FI:Rabitski · 02-14-08, 08:23 AM

What would happen if you disabled both the CargoExplosionRange or AmmoForceMultiplier ? wouldn't the vessel sink anyhow due to damage to the hull? So we'd lose out on eye candy; but the ship's would sink closer to the way there ment to, plus your torpedo expendture would be closer to the truth? I've noticed useing NSM 3 + the hardcore NSM 3 that oil tankers also blow up with one hit, Cargo ship's seem fine, 3-4 contact hit's and a wee while to go under.

Galanti · 02-14-08, 02:37 PM

Is NSM 3.3 still around for download somewhere?

AlmightyTallest · 02-14-08, 06:09 PM

Okay, thanks for the help guys, much appreciated.

I love RSRD, but also can't part with NSM, can't wait to see them working better together.

02-13-08, 02:20 PM	#662
tedhealy Grey Wolf Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: St. Louis, MO, USA Posts: 772 Downloads: 13 Uploads: 0	Ok, so it sounds like NSM4 and RSRD don't play well together? In addition to breaking ships in half with contact torpedoes, I noticed that I was sinking tankers with one torpedo. They didn't break in half, but would explode after the hit. So it seems to me that running NSM4 with RSRD actually causes the opposite of NSM's goals, ships now take even less torpedoes to sink and go down quickly in my limited experience with the two. Can I go back to NSM3.3 with TM1.7.6 and RSRD? Are those compatible?

02-13-08, 03:23 PM	#663
:FI:Rabitski Mate Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 51 Downloads: 26 Uploads: 0	Is this a problem that's fixable? or should those of that are running RSRD switch back to NSM3?

02-13-08, 05:36 PM	#667
tedhealy Grey Wolf Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: St. Louis, MO, USA Posts: 772 Downloads: 13 Uploads: 0	I went back to NSM3.3 with the 3.3 hardcore torpedo mod. Now that's the NSM I remember. I torpedoed a large modern composite going about 11-12 knots, 4 fish fired all set for contact at 6 feet depth, 3 hits, 1 dud. The 2 hits were aft of the the funnel at 11:54. She kept on going but with observations at 60 second intervals I could tell she was flooding in the stern. Speed slowed to about 5 or 6 knots some 5 minutes later at about 12:00. Stern observed way down at or below water line while the bow is rising at 12:05, speed 1-2 knot. 12:10, sunk message appears as she slides in backwards, bow way up in the air. 12:13, ship vanishes beneath the waves. No major explosions or broken keels. Wasn't even a fire on deck until the stern went below the waterline.

02-13-08, 05:53 PM	#668
AlmightyTallest Machinist's Mate Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 126 Downloads: 14 Uploads: 0	I already have a long campaign career going with RSRD 3 and NSM 4 Classic, can I safely rollback to NSM 3.3 that's in TMaru 1.7.6 without ruining my carrer in game?

02-14-08, 08:23 AM	#673
:FI:Rabitski Mate Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 51 Downloads: 26 Uploads: 0	What would happen if you disabled both the CargoExplosionRange or AmmoForceMultiplier ? wouldn't the vessel sink anyhow due to damage to the hull? So we'd lose out on eye candy; but the ship's would sink closer to the way there ment to, plus your torpedo expendture would be closer to the truth? I've noticed useing NSM 3 + the hardcore NSM 3 that oil tankers also blow up with one hit, Cargo ship's seem fine, 3-4 contact hit's and a wee while to go under.

02-14-08, 02:37 PM	#674
Galanti Captain Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Ottawa Posts: 536 Downloads: 106 Uploads: 0	Is NSM 3.3 still around for download somewhere?

02-14-08, 06:09 PM	#675
AlmightyTallest Machinist's Mate Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 126 Downloads: 14 Uploads: 0	Okay, thanks for the help guys, much appreciated. I love RSRD, but also can't part with NSM, can't wait to see them working better together.