US Politics Thread 2021-24

[Sonicfire1981]

Originally Posted by 3catcircus

How was Jared Kushner qualified? Who knows, but three middle east arab countries agreeing to normalizing relations with Israel, due to efforts of Kushner and staff sounds like a good outcome.

Peace in the middle east is good. very good in fact. we can agree on that. How this went down and who is to credit for it is to be discussed elsewhere. Taken from this episode: Trump installed "his" family where they get paid by american taxpayers, why is that better than biden providing his son with a job paid with ukrainian money (assuming for a moment that's the case)?

Gov't employees receiving consulting fees? If you are doing a *different* job than what you do as a govt employee, you absolutely can get paid. If I write a novel and sell it, my employee still pays me for the work I do for them.

We'll see if that's the case.

Staying in Trump hotels? And? Trump was not involved in managing that business while he was President.

And after his presidency this money gets destroyed and he won't - at all - profit from this. It sound worth an investigation.

"Excessive golf?" It's a lot cheaper on the taxpayer for Trump to shave the weekend at his own club than all of Obama's trips to Hawaii.

Ah, the "But Obama did this..."- argument. You're propably wrong. Obamas trips and their cost are pretty well documented, at 97 Mill $ in 8 years. He also played a lot of golf, I believe to have read 300 times, 6times more than bush. And while I duly think there's better things a president could do while people are dying in the thousands due to a pandemic, it's not the point.
My Point is, the Trump Golf Resort bills President Trump, who gladly pays. Just because we don't know exactly how much does not make this right.
https://thehill.com/homenews/adminis...service-628000
https://www.chicagotribune.com/natio...419-story.html
https://trumpgolfcount.com/displayoutings
https://thegolfnewsnet.com/golfnewsn...office-103836/
https://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...a4e_story.html

Donations? No idea.

You know, the donations he asked for to rectify this election fraud thing. "Election Defense fund", where donations below 8k $, so the donations of the lower or middle-class men and women, were used for a variety of things, just not to challenge the election results by any means.
https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-u...-idINKBN27R30B

There's the perception of wrongdoing and there's actual wrongdoing. Even when caught red-handed, leftists seem to be made of teflon.

Tehe... the blue ones caught red handed.... careful, thou, colorful metaphors are oftentimes frowned upon in these parts...
This may or may not be the case. If this is an argument (again with the "but the dems did...."), then this:

Originally Posted by 3catcircus

[...]just want to go back to looting and pillaging their citizenry like they did before Trump. The ones who support Trump believe in the idea of politicians who look out for their citizens' interests over their own [...]

is hardly anywhere near the truth.

[vienna]

Originally Posted by Onkel Neal

Same here, wth is qanon? Seems like the democrats know more about this than me or people I know. All these flakey extremists groups are small in numbers yet the msm and democrats, snowflakes and SJW blow them out of proportion. Another case of susceptible people being manipulated by msm and political liars.

The same could be applied to the Far Right mania about Left extremist factions such as the amorphous AntiFa and other such Rightist bugaboos, or to borrow your context:

Same here, wth is AntiFa? Seems like the Far Right know more about this than me or people I know. All these flakey extremists groups are small in numbers yet the Far Right media and GOP, Trumpettes and radio talk show pundits blow them out of proportion. Another case of susceptible people being manipulated by Far Right media and political liars.

The truth is, there is no real structure to AntiFA and I would really like to see any proof Antifa is anywhere near as organized and inter-communicative as the many Far Right groups seem to be; one of the really big reasons Antifa, or, for that matter, any of the other alleged "organized" leftist groups wouldn't be able to pull off something as outrageous as the Capitol Riot is exactly because they are so disorganized; one of my favorite ironic jokes, often attributed to Dylan, is "The first thing anarchist sdo is for a committee"; AntiFa can't even do that; I am very much less concerned about what a bunch of formless Left factions can do en masse than I am about what a rabid, armed, and inter-connected collection of Far Right wingnuts are up to; as I've pointed out before: there have been many, many left-wing, progressive demonstrations in DC over many, many decades and not one of them has ever had the shameless audacity or the seeming degree of organizational coordination as was seen on 06 Jan...

Regarding rightist media, it should be noted that even Fox News has started to run scared now: in just the past month, Fox has openly acknowledged it is moving more in the direction of opinion than hard news and has begun to make the labeling on shows such as Hannity, etc., make explicit those programs are not news but, rather, subjective opinion shows; this comes after Hannity publicly acknowledged he and his show do not vet or verify the stories or claims he relates on his programs and after Fox paid out millions to settle threatened libel/slander suits against Fox News and a couple of its hosts, with one such settlement coming just a day before Fox was faced with having to verify the 'reportage' made by one of its hosts in open court and be compelled to provide proof of the host's assertions; now that Fox has been hit with a jaw-dropping libel suit by one of the companies involved in the creation and administration of voting systems used in the 2020 Presidential Election and will be required to prove, in open court, and under oath, the claims of voter fraud and other wild conspiracy claims, it will be interesting to see what tack Fox News will take ongoing; maybe they will just drop and pretense and just drop "News" from their name...

Lou Dobbs is now gone; he was one of the Fox News personalities Fox paid out a multi-million dollar settlement just recently in order to keep from going to court; he has now become more expensive to keep than he is worth; who will Fox find to be not worth the trouble and expense next...?...

Don't get me wrong: I am not just directing my views toward jut Fox; I think it way beyond time to make those, of any political or social stripe, who make wild inflammatory statements to be openly required to present actual, verifiable, and consistent evidence to back up their claims, and, if they can't do that, make them pay a penalty for their attempts to hoodwink the public; I think it great those two Voting Machine companies are suing all those conspiracy nuts who have made wild, slanderous statements, ail the while thinking no one would dare to call them out on their claims; too many people and groups, again, of all stripes, have gotten away for far too long with just putting out whatever rubbish they can pull out of their hinter regions and try to pass it off as "news' or "facts"; make the buggers put up or shut and pay up; hit them a few times where it really hurts, the old pockets and purses and let's see if they have an urge to serve up their crap as easily as they do now...





<O>

[Skybird]

In Germany, some minister presidents and interior ministersof the federal states form a consensus and mull the observation of Qanon by the office for the protection of the constitution at least on federal state level, if not national level. That harmless it is - even here.

In America, it has a stable, highly relevant and opinion-forming basis amongst orange voters. Its one of the driving forces behind turning the red party into an orange one. Ideology matters.

But okay, go on and stick your heads into the sand. Has become a national hobby over the past 4 years already.

[u crank]

Originally Posted by vienna

I am very much less concerned about what a bunch of formless Left factions can do en masse than I am about what a rabid, armed, and inter-connected collection of Far Right wingnuts are up to;

You mean until they burn down your neighborhood?

I don't think it matters how organized they are but rather what they are up to.

I think it way beyond time to make those, of any political or social stripe, who make wild inflammatory statements to be openly required to present actual, verifiable, and consistent evidence to back up their claims, and, if they can't do that, make them pay a penalty for their attempts to hoodwink the public;

I'm not sure that is a good or even workable idea. How would you envision this being put into practice? There is this thing called the First Amendment. And there are lots of laws pertaining to slander, defamation etc. And the big question .. who would be the arbitrator of such a Big Brother watchdog such as you suggest? I can guess but how would you see it being done? Are you suggesting an actual law? Can't see that ever happening. The big picture and what Leftists are now crying about is the free speach rights of Americans guaranteed under the First Amendment. People are alowed to say stupid things. If you are offended or feel you have been slandered, take them to court. This has happened. (Nicholas Sandmann and CNN). And if the left or right media traffics in conspiracy theories call them out in the public square. That is what journalists are suppose to do.

In effect you are suggesting that somebody, not sure who, is needed to protect the public from themselves. Those protections are already in place.

[Rockstar]

Originally Posted by vienna

The same could be applied to the Far Right mania about Left extremist factions such as the amorphous AntiFa and other such Rightist bugaboos, or to borrow your context:


The truth is,

<O>

The truth huh? Must be nice to be the only to know it.


Hard to make a case though about left wing right wing organizations when Antifa really doesn't seem to take kindly to either side of the political spectrum.

Earlier Wednesday, a crowd of about 200 people, including self-described anarchists, marched in the city’s Central Eastside area and smashed windows at the Democratic Party of Oregon headquarters. Some of the demonstrators carried a sign that read “We don’t want Biden, we want revenge!” in response to “police murders” and “imperialist wars.” Portland police said they arrested eight people.

https://nypost.com/2021/01/21/antifa...biden-protest/

https://www.oregonlive.com/pacific-n...w-chapter.html

[Von Due]

Not a post about the US in particular but these self proclaimed anarchists make me shake my head. Ask them what they think of Bakunin and the reply will most likely be "never had that before. Is it vegan?"

[Sonicfire1981]

Originally Posted by Von Due

Not a post about the US in particular but these self proclaimed anarchists make me shake my head. Ask them what they think of Bakunin and the reply will most likely be "never had that before. Is it vegan?"

Never heard that before... Violence is never good. Extremist groups of all color belong into a Bakunin and never to be seen again. The difference is:
Biden condemns violent groups without hesitation
https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-f...-idUSKBN2712ZA

whereas Trump... well. Doesn't convincingly.
I bet I would have to deliver some proof for this baseless accusation:


And this seems to be more and more widely be true for his followers.
Ask a leftist about antifa & leftwing violence: they condemn it - you might hear that there is no organisation "antifa", but undoubtedly, violence is bad.
Ask a trumpist about white supremacy: "Whatabout Antifa? the BLM terrorists?"

[3catcircus]

Originally Posted by Sonicfire1981

Peace in the middle east is good. very good in fact. we can agree on that. How this went down and who is to credit for it is to be discussed elsewhere. Taken from this episode: Trump installed "his" family where they get paid by american taxpayers, why is that better than biden providing his son with a job paid with ukrainian money (assuming for a moment that's the case)?


We'll see if that's the case.

And after his presidency this money gets destroyed and he won't - at all - profit from this. It sound worth an investigation.

Ah, the "But Obama did this..."- argument. You're propably wrong. Obamas trips and their cost are pretty well documented, at 97 Mill $ in 8 years. He also played a lot of golf, I believe to have read 300 times, 6times more than bush. And while I duly think there's better things a president could do while people are dying in the thousands due to a pandemic, it's not the point.
My Point is, the Trump Golf Resort bills President Trump, who gladly pays. Just because we don't know exactly how much does not make this right.
https://thehill.com/homenews/adminis...service-628000
https://www.chicagotribune.com/natio...419-story.html
https://trumpgolfcount.com/displayoutings
https://thegolfnewsnet.com/golfnewsn...office-103836/
https://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...a4e_story.html


You know, the donations he asked for to rectify this election fraud thing. "Election Defense fund", where donations below 8k $, so the donations of the lower or middle-class men and women, were used for a variety of things, just not to challenge the election results by any means.
https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-u...-idINKBN27R30B



Tehe... the blue ones caught red handed.... careful, thou, colorful metaphors are oftentimes frowned upon in these parts...
This may or may not be the case. If this is an argument (again with the "but the dems did...."), then this:



is hardly anywhere near the truth.

I really don't see any issue with him staying at hotels with his name on the marquee. At least there is no claim of him selecting one hotel chain to favor over any other - and I have no idea if he was charged the per diem rate or not every time. I've been on travel where I couldn't obtain a per diem rate - because of vip type government officials staying at the hotel taking all of the available rooms at that rate. It would not at all surprise me if he directed rooms at a more expensive rate to allow per diem rate rooms to be used by other government travelers.

Cost *is* the entire point. A 2-hr flight to a property he owns where the USSS can come in and set up security permanently is always less costly than a 12-hr flight to a different private property in Hawaii where security had to be set up every time, temporarily. One trip the Obama's took, for example, was to a place that rents for $5000-$10,000 night. Trump's Mar-aLago - not so much.

[u crank]

Originally Posted by Sonicfire1981

Ask a leftist about antifa & leftwing violence: they condemn it - you might hear that there is no organisation "antifa", but undoubtedly, violence is bad.

Depends who you ask. The left wing media and certain Democrat politicians spent an entire summer defending the Antifa and BLM riots as 'mostly peaceful'. The current Vice President retweeted a link to raise bail money for these thugs. Left wing on air talking heads like CNN's Chris Cuomo differentiated between good violence and bad violence. Their on site reporters stood in front of burning buildings and said the protests were mostly peaceful.

Remarkably it took about 100 days, 10,000 arrests, over $2 billion in property damage and hundreds of protesters, police and innocent bystanders injured to actually get the condemnation started. Biden made that statement on On Sept. 7, 2020. He and other Democrats started to condemn the violence when polls began to indicate that they had better say something. Up until then not much because of course there was an election campaign going on. You don't want to criticize some people who might vote for you.

[Sonicfire1981]

Originally Posted by 3catcircus

I really don't see any issue with him staying at hotels with his name on the marquee. At least there is no claim of him selecting one hotel chain to favor over any other - and I have no idea if he was charged the per diem rate or not every time. I've been on travel where I couldn't obtain a per diem rate - because of vip type government officials staying at the hotel taking all of the available rooms at that rate. It would not at all surprise me if he directed rooms at a more expensive rate to allow per diem rate rooms to be used by other government travelers.

Cost *is* the entire point. A 2-hr flight to a property he owns where the USSS can come in and set up security permanently is always less costly than a 12-hr flight to a different private property in Hawaii where security had to be set up every time, temporarily. One trip the Obama's took, for example, was to a place that rents for $5000-$10,000 night. Trump's Mar-aLago - not so much.

I'll draw you a picture:

President Trump --Taxpayer Money--> Trump Organisation ->BAD!

Besides (!Besides, because its not the point. Look at my beautiful picture) your wrong:

Obama total in 8 years: 85M$
https://www.afr.com/world/north-amer...0161229-gtj4bi
Trump total: 140M$ (estimate)
https://thegolfnewsnet.com/golfnewsn...payers-107139/

[Skybird]

https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinio...be-ncna1257146

Surprisignly - well, really? - few changes in the policy towards Israel and the Palestinian Arabs.

[Sonicfire1981]

Someone else watching the impeachment trial? just tuned in and can't help but... D. Trump had some difficulties finding a lawyer at all (not even talking about "to the unites states of america...")

Is he trying to fillibuster this trial?

[u crank]

Originally Posted by Sonicfire1981

Someone else watching the impeachment trial? just tuned in and can't help but... D. Trump had some difficulties finding a lawyer at all (not even talking about "to the unites states of america...")

Is he trying to fillibuster this trial?

I think I've seen this movie before. I wonder will it have the same anticlimactic ending?

[Sonicfire1981]

Originally Posted by u crank

I think I've seen this movie before. I wonder will it have the same anticlimactic ending?

You're propably right, also about the ending. The sequel had to be made, though. Anyways, for a done deal, those lawyers talk *a lot*.

[u crank]

Originally Posted by Sonicfire1981

You're propably right, also about the ending. The sequel had to be made, though.

Well maybe but what a giant waste of time and effort for something that will have a predetermined outcome. And for Democrats what a waste of political capital. You win the WH and control both branches of Congress and this is what you do?

Anyways, for a done deal, those lawyers talk *a lot*.

They can't help it. It's part of their lifestyle.