[WIP/TEC] Roll/pitch enhancement

[Beery]

Originally Posted by Canonicus

...I have had no depth control problems or shallow PD broaching. Boat rides with normal draft at the surface.
I understand that further testing on all sub classes, (with different mass and gc height numbers), will be necessary as the process is refined.

Hope this helps.

As far as lower and higher values go, it's probably a mistake to assume that larger attenuation values will attenuate the waves more - I've found that the devs at Ubisoft Rumania often use methods that don't conform to standard notions of logic or intuition. I've tested lower and higher values and lower values make the waves smaller whereas higher values do not seem to attenuate the waves at all.

With 0.03 I also have no flying sub, the boat falls into wave troughs with a nice pitch and roll with waves flowing over the deck and no depth control problems or shallow PD broaching. Also, the boat rides with normal draught at the surface - and this happens without having to change any other values whatsoever.

Why change multiple values including sub *.sim file values to get the same effect that we can get by simply changing the attenuation to 0.03? As a fan of economy of effort, why should I change nineteen things (attenuation plus mass and GC values for all subs) when changing one will fix the problem?

[602Sqn_Puff]

As soon as I changed the settings to 0.03 all was well until I ran into 15m/s winds, at 100 feet the boat rose and dived over 20 feet , running with TC at 512 this would drain the compressed air at a dramatic rate. Outcome is that I have changed back to the stock 0.75, changing these other settings would give the same result without the compressed air problem?

[ATR-42]

Originally Posted by 602Sqn_Puff

As soon as I changed the settings to 0.03 all was well until I ran into 15m/s winds, at 100 feet the boat rose and dived over 20 feet , running with TC at 512 this would drain the compressed air at a dramatic rate. Outcome is that I have changed back to the stock 0.75.

i second that. same here. even submerged at periscope depth the boat was all over the place.

[Beery]

Originally Posted by 602Sqn_Puff

As soon as I changed the settings to 0.03 all was well until I ran into 15m/s winds, at 100 feet the boat rose and dived over 20 feet , running with TC at 512 this would drain the compressed air at a dramatic rate...

I've tested at 15m/s at 0.03 and run the boat three times for 12-hour stretches at periscope depth without running out of air. What boat were you using and what other mods were you using, 'cos I've never seen this problem.

[Beery]

Originally Posted by ATR-42

i second that. same here. even submerged at periscope depth the boat was all over the place.

The boat should move at periscope depth. Wave effect goes well below the surface in storms. The question is does the air run out? In my tests it doesn't, and that was using the boat that should be most affected - the S-18.

[ATR-42]

It was a Balao class sub, thing was, i was in a harbor, the waves werent THAT big and the boat must have been swinging through 30 feet. It was very strange.

[Beery]

I'll test a Balao boat in 15m/s and report back here. Usually, if I'm getting different results from other people these things turn out to be caused by other mods, but I haven't tested a Balao class boat yet so I can't be sure.

[Kataki]

In my experience I had the most trouble getting the larger fleet boats to work and havent found a sweet spot yet.

[602Sqn_Puff]

Beery, here are the mods I have running in the JSGME. The enhanced pitch and roll is this mod , in this thread and I am currently not running the 9km mod nor the depth crush mod.



hope this helps

[Beery]

I just did a test with a Balao class sub. I'm using the extended battery life mod. Here are the results:

1st test: Balao at 11m/s wind speed, dived to periscope depth, raised time compression to 4096, stayed under for 24 hours. Result, no visible drop in compressed air levels. Surfaced, sub performed perfectly with good pitch and roll and no flying.

2nd test: Balao at 15m/s wind speed, dived to periscope depth, raised time compression to 512, stayed under for two hours. No visible drop in compressed air levels. Raised TC to 4096, stayed under for 24 hours. Result, no visible drop in compressed air levels. Surfaced, sub performed perfectly with good pitch and roll and no flying.

3rd test: Balao at 15m/s wind speed, raised time compression to 4096, dived to periscope depth, stayed under for 24 hours. Result, no visible drop in compressed air levels. Surfaced, sub performed perfectly with good pitch and roll and no flying.

As far as I can see the excessive compressed air loss must be being caused by some other mod or by the use of a no-CD crack (which can, I believe, cause this issue).

[602Sqn_Puff]

Those are the only mods Im running and use the disc to play What was the compressed air usage at depths of 100 ft or more in the 15m/s wind?

[Beery]

Originally Posted by 602Sqn_Puff

Beery, here are the mods I have running in the JSGME. The enhanced pitch and roll is this mod , in this thread and I am currently not running the 9km mod nor the depth crush mod.

Out of the mods you list at least two would be prime candidates to be the cause of the problem with compressed air loss when combined with a 0.03 wave attenuation number. I'd take out the depth charge shake mod, Kosh's stealthy sub, real lifeboats and SH4 Crush depths and see if the compressed air loss goes away when using that 0.03 wave attenuation number. Then plug them all back in one at a time to see which one is causing the problem. Also, I'm not sure what the ISI mod does - it doesn't sound like it affects water or buoyancy but I'm not sure.

The problem is that mods that affect waves and buoyancy characteristics are very finely balanced and the game can be greatly affected when mod A is influenced by data in mod B - data that mod A's author fully expected to remain the same as the stock game. When two mods are combined it can have unforeseen consequences even when the files modded in one mod are not the same as those modded in the other mod - this is why large scale super mods are so useful - because these big mods combine mods and the guy combining the mods tests them thoroughly for compatibility. Each mod is only guaranteed to work on its own with the stock game: add other mods and anything can happen.

By the way, if you're using RFB 1.20 you already have the 'real medals' mod. Also, I believe the 'realistic crush depths' mod is no longer needed as the devs fixed crush depths in 1.2 (although I reckon they're still a bit on the conservative side).

[Beery]

Okay I've finally reproduced the problem. It seems to have something to do with saving and loading a game in mid-patrol - perhaps only when loading a game during a storm. In my previous test I started out a new career mission and did the test after finding a 15m/s windspeed. This time I tested with a game saved in mid-patrol during a storm. First thing I noticed was that wave heights were HUGE - far bigger than any wave I'd seen before - and my boat was flying. I did the test and sure enough the boat was bouncing up and down at anywhere between 1x and 1024x TC and big-time compressed air loss. Above 1024 the effect does not seem to happen and there's no loss of compressed air.

I've never seen the problem before, probably because I rarely (if ever) load a game in mid-patrol. I usually try to play a patrol all in one long session.

[ATR-42]

Beery,
Nice job, finding that, i was beging to think i was crazy, or i had too much to drink that particular evening

yes indeed i did get that AFTER a reload (no cracks, but i do run several mods) and i know for sure i reloaded at some point (several times).
:hmm:
typically, and im no expert on this, but if a wave is 8 feet high, it should be about 8 feet or so down as well. so at periscope depth the sub should be stable. For me it was ALL over the pace, it was windy but not fully max wave height yet, and i was picking off targets at dock inside a harbor so i was in shallow waters.

great work, we'll get this hammered out sooner or later

[Beery]

Okay I ran some tests. Here's the deal:

With a wave attenuation value of 0.03 in a game saved while in a storm: waves are very big and compressed air runs out after about four hours if the player is running at between 1 and 512 TC. Above 512: the compressed air lasts much longer. If you're running at over 2000 TC the compressed air loss is minimal.

With a wave attenuation value of 0.03 in a game started from port and played straight through without loading a save: waves are small but compressed air still runs out after about eight hours if the player is running at between 1 and 512 TC. Above 512 the compressed air lasts much longer. If you're running at over 2000 TC the compressed air loss is minimal.

I have yet to test if saving/loading a patrol in calmer seas helps the problem, but basically it doesn't matter whether the player saves the game in a storm or out or if he runs a patrol in one sitting from start to finish - the compressed air runs out faster than the electric battery, so it's a definite problem for anyone who runs at under 1024 TC no matter how they save the game.

This is so frustrating to me - I mean these are pesky little annoyances that shouldn't be getting in the way of fixing the game. It almost seems to me that the devs must have run into this bug while the game was in development and instead of tracking it down and fixing it properly they made a work-around by boosting the wave attenuation value to a point where the boat flies between the wave tops and doesn't pitch or roll.

I think this is a problem that the developers ought to fix. I mean the SH3 subs behaved perfectly - they pitched and rolled much more realistically in heavy seas and they never came entirely out of the water. We shouldn't have to spend our time to try to fix this 'amateur hour' crap. I mean I'm spending hours on this penny-ante gameplay nonsense when I could be spending time doing what I really like - making the game more historically accurate. I'm really beginning to feel that with garbage code like this we're paying to beta test this lemon for them. I mean who ever heard of a value that's supposedly adjustable from "<0" being bugged whenever it's set at less than 0.75? I mean if it's supposed to work with any number greater than zero it should work with any number greater than zero.



Anyway, I guess this means we are indeed forced to mess with 19 values to change one pesky problem. Damnit developers, throw us a frigging bone! I mean when we ask for submarines we should get submarines, not some sort of weird submersible hovercraft.