Blue Water Development Diary - Page 3

Terminus · 03-26-19, 07:01 AM

COOP Multiplayer would be good against AI or against other Humies.

Also hope the Australian Navy is there along with New Zealand, since we operated the same class of ships for the most part.

Terminus

stormrider_sp · 03-27-19, 04:53 AM

Fantastic!! Really looking forward for this one!

How moddable will it be?

Chief · 04-02-19, 10:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jaop99

Something similar to CMANO and Jane's Fleet Command will be well received! With 3D view like the last one!

Overkill · 04-10-19, 12:58 PM

Been wanting another "Fleet Command" game for a long time now.

Ragnarokkr · 04-23-19, 04:41 AM

Okay, gotta come in hot and tell you guys this one thing:

The best of luck to you, will definitely be ready with my wallet

strykerpsg · 04-24-19, 09:34 PM

Kudos AzureSkies!

This would be great in a market devoid of modern naval 1st person and/or 3D sims not seen since the 90s, with Destroyer Command, Jane's Fleet Command and other WWII naval sims. Some great suggestions already noted within the thread too.

Subscribed to this thread for updates.

AzureSkies · 05-14-19, 12:25 AM

Well, I think it's safe to say some improvements have been made.

I can talk about the Ocean a bit more in another post, perhaps, but for now, let's take a look at what's floating in it.

This is the Azov, lacking her RBU's (still in development), and with the hull number she had in 1983 (The Russians like to change their ships' hull numbers every so often, it seems).

She was a Kara-class cruiser designed with a special modification: an installation of S-300 Fort (NATO reporting name: SA-N-6 "Grumble") missiles and accompanying 3R41 Volna ("TOP DOME") radar replacing her rearward M11 Shtorm (NATO name: SA-N-3 "Goblet") launcher and its accompanying HEAD LIGHTS radar.

This served as the sea trials for this new long-range SAM system that would be fitted on Slava and Kirov-class ships, and almost doubled the range of her air defense capabilities, and put her up with these fleet flagships in terms of fleet air defense.

She did, however, retain the forward one, so you can see the HEAD LIGHTS radar just behind and on top of the bridge, and the associated M-11 Shtorm launcher on the elevated deck in front of it (currently carrying two missiles). By 1983, I believe this would have been the upgraded version.

Stationed with the Black Sea fleet, her and the Slava will be the most important ships for Soviet players trying to break out of the Black Sea, providing long-range air defense against large numbers of NATO aircraft.

Some parts of the model are yet to be augmented a bit, RBUs have yet to be added, and the sky will get some drastic improvements soon.

Next update is sure to come much sooner. Until then, good hunting.

AzureSkies · 05-14-19, 02:50 AM

Just wanted to let y'all know there's an update on the Dev Diary. I want to start using it more.

Amiral Crapaud · 05-19-19, 09:08 AM

Your ships are beautiful. Keep up to good work, bro!

AzureSkies · 05-23-19, 12:04 AM

This week is a bit late.

Been mulling over decisions with regard to the game's design and release schedule. I've been thinking of using an early access release towards the end of the year to raise funds to put towards a more complete development. It would only be the bare bones of gameplay, only surface ships and probably a simplified damage model, but come with all the updates from there.

Thoughts, comments? Feel free to provide feedback on the idea.

Anyways, I've done a lot of work implementing a sky system in the project, and had to re-do the water to make it look good in light of this. I think it's an improvement - the sky sure is! - but you'll have to tell me what you think of the water.

Anyways, I like to introduce a new vehicle each week, so without further ado...

This is a Juliett-class submarine. It was initially built in the 60s to play the role that SSBNs would later take - threatening the US east coast with nuclear-tipped (cruise missiles in this case) missiles. Once SSBNs made them obsolete with the ability to launch nuclear ballistic missiles from submarines, their armaments were switched out for long-range antiship missiles.

Typical armament would consist of 6 533 mm torpedo tubes with 18 torpedoes, and four non-reloadable 400 mm stern torpedo tubes. Usually 4 of the 18 torpedoes were nuclear-tipped antiship torpedoes.

But its main armament to worry about in 1983 was 4 P-6 (NATO reporting name: SS-N-3A "Shaddock") missiles, two of which were typically nuclear-tipped.

By 1983, though, the submarine was old, and bordering on obsolescence. In order to fire, the ocean had to be less than sea state six, but most troublingly, it had to be surfaced and moving less than four knots. It also took about five minutes from surfacing to firing, making it extremely vulnerable to ASW attack.

The Shaddocks had a range of 450 km, or 250 nmi. Their own radar could only acquire targets from about 50 nmi out, and until they did, the missile had to be guided by the Juliett's FRONT DOOR/FRONT PIECE radar, which due to its limited abilities, could only track two at a time. This meant it had to fire its missiles in salvos of 2, guide them until they acquired the enemy targets (50 nmi range), and only then could it fire another pair.

The FRONT DOOR/FRONT PIECE radar had an unusual design in that it occupied a large front section of the conning tower that had to be rotated 180 degrees for the radar to work.

Given the Shaddocks were high-flying, although supersonic, just two at a time meant that a single submarine was highly unlikely to saturate a carrier battle group's air defenses.

Also, while the missiles were guided by the radar from beyond 50 nmi to the target, the Juliett would have to remain surfaced to track and guide them with its radar.

The Juliett is a close relative of the Echo II, and 16 were built. It may seem odd, given the Juliett carried half as many missiles as the Echo II, but the Juliett was actually designed after the Echo II's.

It would be fairly easy to model an Echo II if needed, but for gameplay purposes I chose the Juliett, as it would make balancing missions easier, since while you can't have half an Echo II, you can have 1 Juliett instead of 2. Also, 2 Julietts would make for more interesting and dynamic gameplay than 1 Echo-II.

Also, while a single Juliett would do little to a carrier battle group alone, and although its missile armament was designed with carrier groups in mind, it might have also proven useful against Atlantic convoy routes, where smaller escort groups would prove a more vulnerable target to its nearly-obsolete design...

In the end, for gameplay purposes, I'm leaning towards putting a Juliett or two in a wolfpack with other diesel-electric sub(s) against a North Atlantic convoy group, and using Echo II's for a CVBG vs. Soviet submarines mission.

On November 10th, 1983, when hostilities will have broken out, the USS Independence, a Forrestal-class aircraft carrier, had just finished assisting operations in Grenada, and was underway to the Mediterranean. This will have put it somewhere around 1,000 nmi W-SW of Spain, in the Atlantic. Given it would have been impossible to hide the carrier's presence at Grenada, it's easy to imagine that nuclear-powered Echo-II's could have attempted to intercept the Forrestal before it entered the Mediterranean...

It's certainly been interesting researching all of this. Contemporary sources were used, which means there's little chance of getting mixed up with modernizations as opposed to weapons of the time, but also means there was the limitation of what knowledge the US had peering across the Iron Curtain, so if you happen to have a more contemporary reliable source that conflicts any of this, feel free to pipe in.

Also feel free to leave responses, comments and feedback below, I'd love to hear from ya!

Until next time, good hunting.

AzureSkies · 05-23-19, 12:06 AM

Another update on the Dev Diary.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alain-James

Your ships are beautiful. Keep up to good work, bro!

Thanks!

AzureSkies · 05-23-19, 12:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Medley1991

You says : "you will take command of NATO and Soviet battlegroups, airbases, submarines and land installations"

NATO, all nations ? All naval/air units ?

The Invincible-class carrier was a very surprisingly even match for a Kiev-class...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Terminus

COOP Multiplayer would be good against AI or against other Humies.

Also hope the Australian Navy is there along with New Zealand, since we operated the same class of ships for the most part.

Terminus

Noted. Thanks for the feedback!

Tnih_n · 05-24-19, 01:40 AM

Will this game feature some kind of mission editor, database editor like jane fleet command so player might later add more units, create custom scenario ?

Aktungbby · 05-24-19, 03:52 AM

Tnih_n!

ChiefCommander33 · 05-27-19, 02:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AzureSkies

Hello everyone!

I'm pleased to announce the committed development of this new naval strategy game, Blue Water.

[in-game screenshot with UI overlay disabled. Post edited to replace old art]

The name is a reference to the maritime geographical term, "Blue-Water Navy".

It's been a long time since either Sonalysts' Jane's Fleet Command or Eidos Hungary's Battlestations: Midway graced the naval game community, and Blue Water intends to fill the big shoes they left: That of a surface-fleet, real-time naval strategy game.

Set at the end of 1983 in a "Cold War gone hot" scenario, you will take command of NATO and Soviet battlegroups, airbases, submarines and land installations to decide the world's future. You will be able to take command of one vessel at a time and switch between them, or issue orders from a strategic map.

The Soviet and US Navies were very different, however, it is possible to find some ships that had striking similarities in the most important metrics (such as range, type and effectiveness of armament, etc). As such, there's planned to be two different kinds of missions: Symmetric and Asymmetric. In Symmetric maps, roughly equivalent battle groups will be pitted against each other. In Asymmetric, the fleet composition is more broad and better reflects the different doctrines of the two navies.

There will be realistic weapons and ranges, an adjustable "world scale" slider that modifies the range of all weapons and sensors, skirmish and multiplayer modes, and much more. All these features may not be available on the early alpha version of the game, but will be released with free future updates.

On that note, I'm proud to say I'm committed to the old-fashioned, microtransaction-free model of gaming.

But as for now, it is extremely early in development, but with dynamic water interaction and a unique and immersive order/control scheme, it's already looking very promising and I'm very excited to be working on it.

Be sure to check out the development diary and suggestions thread.

Sincerely,
Azure Skies, LLC

I'm excited for this game. All I see are WW2 submarine games. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy playing them but I want to play a sub and surface more modern day naval game with modern day navies and weapons. A simulator game in that capacity where you can still give order, move around inside the vessel and command it like a modern day vessel would be awesome. I even thought about learning how to code and to become a developer to create a game of this sort if no one was going to create one. I wish you guys the best of luck and I will be following your progress! I can't wait to play this. Let me know if you need a tester. I would be happy to assist.

03-26-19, 07:01 AM	#31
Terminus Watch Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Australia Posts: 27 Downloads: 38 Uploads: 0	COOP Multiplayer would be good against AI or against other Humies. Also hope the Australian Navy is there along with New Zealand, since we operated the same class of ships for the most part. Terminus __________________ regards Terminus

03-27-19, 04:53 AM	#32
stormrider_sp Planesman Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 186 Downloads: 51 Uploads: 0	Fantastic!! Really looking forward for this one! How moddable will it be? __________________

04-10-19, 12:58 PM	#34
Overkill Frogman Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Georgia, USA Posts: 302 Downloads: 130 Uploads: 0	Been wanting another "Fleet Command" game for a long time now. __________________

05-23-19, 12:04 AM	#40
AzureSkies Blue Water Dev Join Date: Feb 2019 Posts: 95 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	This week is a bit late. Been mulling over decisions with regard to the game's design and release schedule. I've been thinking of using an early access release towards the end of the year to raise funds to put towards a more complete development. It would only be the bare bones of gameplay, only surface ships and probably a simplified damage model, but come with all the updates from there. Thoughts, comments? Feel free to provide feedback on the idea. Anyways, I've done a lot of work implementing a sky system in the project, and had to re-do the water to make it look good in light of this. I think it's an improvement - the sky sure is! - but you'll have to tell me what you think of the water. Anyways, I like to introduce a new vehicle each week, so without further ado... This is a Juliett-class submarine. It was initially built in the 60s to play the role that SSBNs would later take - threatening the US east coast with nuclear-tipped (cruise missiles in this case) missiles. Once SSBNs made them obsolete with the ability to launch nuclear ballistic missiles from submarines, their armaments were switched out for long-range antiship missiles. Typical armament would consist of 6 533 mm torpedo tubes with 18 torpedoes, and four non-reloadable 400 mm stern torpedo tubes. Usually 4 of the 18 torpedoes were nuclear-tipped antiship torpedoes. But its main armament to worry about in 1983 was 4 P-6 (NATO reporting name: SS-N-3A "Shaddock") missiles, two of which were typically nuclear-tipped. By 1983, though, the submarine was old, and bordering on obsolescence. In order to fire, the ocean had to be less than sea state six, but most troublingly, it had to be surfaced and moving less than four knots. It also took about five minutes from surfacing to firing, making it extremely vulnerable to ASW attack. The Shaddocks had a range of 450 km, or 250 nmi. Their own radar could only acquire targets from about 50 nmi out, and until they did, the missile had to be guided by the Juliett's FRONT DOOR/FRONT PIECE radar, which due to its limited abilities, could only track two at a time. This meant it had to fire its missiles in salvos of 2, guide them until they acquired the enemy targets (50 nmi range), and only then could it fire another pair. The FRONT DOOR/FRONT PIECE radar had an unusual design in that it occupied a large front section of the conning tower that had to be rotated 180 degrees for the radar to work. Given the Shaddocks were high-flying, although supersonic, just two at a time meant that a single submarine was highly unlikely to saturate a carrier battle group's air defenses. Also, while the missiles were guided by the radar from beyond 50 nmi to the target, the Juliett would have to remain surfaced to track and guide them with its radar. The Juliett is a close relative of the Echo II, and 16 were built. It may seem odd, given the Juliett carried half as many missiles as the Echo II, but the Juliett was actually designed after the Echo II's. It would be fairly easy to model an Echo II if needed, but for gameplay purposes I chose the Juliett, as it would make balancing missions easier, since while you can't have half an Echo II, you can have 1 Juliett instead of 2. Also, 2 Julietts would make for more interesting and dynamic gameplay than 1 Echo-II. Also, while a single Juliett would do little to a carrier battle group alone, and although its missile armament was designed with carrier groups in mind, it might have also proven useful against Atlantic convoy routes, where smaller escort groups would prove a more vulnerable target to its nearly-obsolete design... In the end, for gameplay purposes, I'm leaning towards putting a Juliett or two in a wolfpack with other diesel-electric sub(s) against a North Atlantic convoy group, and using Echo II's for a CVBG vs. Soviet submarines mission. On November 10th, 1983, when hostilities will have broken out, the USS Independence, a Forrestal-class aircraft carrier, had just finished assisting operations in Grenada, and was underway to the Mediterranean. This will have put it somewhere around 1,000 nmi W-SW of Spain, in the Atlantic. Given it would have been impossible to hide the carrier's presence at Grenada, it's easy to imagine that nuclear-powered Echo-II's could have attempted to intercept the Forrestal before it entered the Mediterranean... It's certainly been interesting researching all of this. Contemporary sources were used, which means there's little chance of getting mixed up with modernizations as opposed to weapons of the time, but also means there was the limitation of what knowledge the US had peering across the Iron Curtain, so if you happen to have a more contemporary reliable source that conflicts any of this, feel free to pipe in. Also feel free to leave responses, comments and feedback below, I'd love to hear from ya! Until next time, good hunting. Last edited by AzureSkies; 05-23-19 at 12:22 AM.

05-24-19, 03:52 AM	#44
Aktungbby Gefallen Engel U-666 Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: On a tilted, overheated, overpopulated spinning mudball on Collision course with Andromeda Galaxy Posts: 28,786 Downloads: 24 Uploads: 0	welcome aboard! Tnih_n! __________________ "Only two things are infinite; The Universe and human squirrelyness; and I'm not too sure about the Universe"

04-23-19, 04:41 AM	#35
Ragnarokkr Watch Join Date: Jul 2015 Location: Ocean of a thousand lakes Posts: 16 Downloads: 9 Uploads: 0	Okay, gotta come in hot and tell you guys this one thing: The best of luck to you, will definitely be ready with my wallet

04-24-19, 09:34 PM	#36
strykerpsg Loader Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 89 Downloads: 99 Uploads: 0	Kudos AzureSkies! This would be great in a market devoid of modern naval 1st person and/or 3D sims not seen since the 90s, with Destroyer Command, Jane's Fleet Command and other WWII naval sims. Some great suggestions already noted within the thread too. Subscribed to this thread for updates.

05-14-19, 12:25 AM	#37
AzureSkies Blue Water Dev Join Date: Feb 2019 Posts: 95 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Well, I think it's safe to say some improvements have been made. I can talk about the Ocean a bit more in another post, perhaps, but for now, let's take a look at what's floating in it. This is the Azov, lacking her RBU's (still in development), and with the hull number she had in 1983 (The Russians like to change their ships' hull numbers every so often, it seems). She was a Kara-class cruiser designed with a special modification: an installation of S-300 Fort (NATO reporting name: SA-N-6 "Grumble") missiles and accompanying 3R41 Volna ("TOP DOME") radar replacing her rearward M11 Shtorm (NATO name: SA-N-3 "Goblet") launcher and its accompanying HEAD LIGHTS radar. This served as the sea trials for this new long-range SAM system that would be fitted on Slava and Kirov-class ships, and almost doubled the range of her air defense capabilities, and put her up with these fleet flagships in terms of fleet air defense. She did, however, retain the forward one, so you can see the HEAD LIGHTS radar just behind and on top of the bridge, and the associated M-11 Shtorm launcher on the elevated deck in front of it (currently carrying two missiles). By 1983, I believe this would have been the upgraded version. Stationed with the Black Sea fleet, her and the Slava will be the most important ships for Soviet players trying to break out of the Black Sea, providing long-range air defense against large numbers of NATO aircraft. Some parts of the model are yet to be augmented a bit, RBUs have yet to be added, and the sky will get some drastic improvements soon. Next update is sure to come much sooner. Until then, good hunting.

05-14-19, 02:50 AM	#38
AzureSkies Blue Water Dev Join Date: Feb 2019 Posts: 95 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Just wanted to let y'all know there's an update on the Dev Diary. I want to start using it more.

05-19-19, 09:08 AM	#39
Amiral Crapaud Electrician's Mate Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 139 Downloads: 2 Uploads: 0	Your ships are beautiful. Keep up to good work, bro!

05-24-19, 01:40 AM	#43
Tnih_n Swabbie Join Date: Jan 2017 Posts: 7 Downloads: 30 Uploads: 0	Will this game feature some kind of mission editor, database editor like jane fleet command so player might later add more units, create custom scenario ?