[REL] Trigger Maru Overhauled - Page 276

Bubblehead1980 · 08-17-13, 11:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rockin Robbins

I pronounce myself fully recovered from an unfortunate computer self-destruct sequence and SH4 is up and running again for the first time since November 2011. I can't even remember how to go from low range to high range fathometer! I'll get things figured out.

I was even able to resume my last mission and sank a couple of sampans with 40mm AA, I never shoot at planes anyway.

Hey, did Ducimus remove course plotting ability in 2.5? I could also have some incompatibility between my save game file, done in a lower version, probably 1.8.

Whatever, I'm really glad to be back on the water and looking forward to finding and actually catching some targets here in the Slot at Guadalcanal. I'm going to sit off the beaches and ambush as they unload because shooting at 30 knot shallow draft targets is such a low percentage proposition. Wish me luck. If they see me I'll need it.

Welcome Back, I was wondering where you have been.I was away from SH 4 myself for a while.

Not sure if were around when you last payed but some mods that I think are fairly new that are must haves way I see it, may want to check them out.

The DarkWraith's Depth Charge Disturbance Mod for SH 4(although I had to adjust it a bit so it would have desired affect, achieve the balance)

DarkWraith's ship/plane fire damage mod.

Longer Sinking Times for TMO(must have, ships sink much more realistic manner, esp with the fire mod mentioned above)

I just released two torpedo mods, they are in the mod's section.

The NavMapMakeover mod is great also.

volodya61 · 08-17-13, 02:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bubblehead1980

..I just released two torpedo mods, they are in the mod's section..

Hi

Maybe you already know that.. you placed these mods in the SH5 d/l section..

Bubblehead1980 · 08-17-13, 02:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by volodya61

Hi

Maybe you already know that.. you placed these mods in the SH5 d/l section..

oops, wasnt aware of that lol

John Channing · 08-17-13, 03:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rockin Robbins

I pronounce myself fully recovered from an unfortunate computer self-destruct sequence and SH4 is up and running again for the first time since November 2011. I can't even remember how to go from low range to high range fathometer! I'll get things figured out.

I was even able to resume my last mission and sank a couple of sampans with 40mm AA, I never shoot at planes anyway.

Hey, did Ducimus remove course plotting ability in 2.5? I could also have some incompatibility between my save game file, done in a lower version, probably 1.8.

Whatever, I'm really glad to be back on the water and looking forward to finding and actually catching some targets here in the Slot at Guadalcanal. I'm going to sit off the beaches and ambush as they unload because shooting at 30 knot shallow draft targets is such a low percentage proposition. Wish me luck. If they see me I'll need it.

I will alert all the Moderators to set up a 24/7 watch rotation now that you're back. Phasers will be set to stun... initially.

Good to see you back, old friend.

JCC

Rockin Robbins · 08-17-13, 03:58 PM

I'm going to be very busy just trying to recover some poor skill at the game. It's amazing how you remember the overall picture but lose all the fine details that make producing the picture possible! I've got a lot to relearn and I'm foolishly resuming my last campaign! It would be very hard to stir up much trouble if I'm swimming....

Good to see you and others still here, John. Is AVG still around here?

airsangel · 08-18-13, 02:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rockin Robbins

I'm going to be very busy just trying to recover some poor skill at the game. It's amazing how you remember the overall picture but lose all the fine details that make producing the picture possible! I've got a lot to relearn and I'm foolishly resuming my last campaign! It would be very hard to stir up much trouble if I'm swimming....

Good to see you and others still here, John. Is AVG still around here?

really like how u said remembering the whole picture but losing the details...so damn true when u leave the hunting sh4...beautiful simulation it has with tmo and om

John Channing · 08-18-13, 08:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rockin Robbins

I'm going to be very busy just trying to recover some poor skill at the game. It's amazing how you remember the overall picture but lose all the fine details that make producing the picture possible! I've got a lot to relearn and I'm foolishly resuming my last campaign! It would be very hard to stir up much trouble if I'm swimming....

Good to see you and others still here, John. Is AVG still around here?

Oh sure, he's around. He's a bit like me. Only surfaces whjen something interests him.

JCC

Rockin Robbins · 08-20-13, 11:18 AM

I found that my Shooting Gallery Test Range mission in the downloads area wasn 't working right. So I downloaded it and as soon as I started fooling with it, realized that I have forgotten far more than I ever knew!

Working now but I made so many mistakes fixing that one........

Also, Slightly Subnuclear Mark 14 and Cutie isn't working the same under TMO 2.5 as it did under 1.x. It used to incinerate an aircraft carrier and now I can bounce it around a bit by juicing up the explosion beyond my original settings, but I can't sink one with one torpedo any more no matter what settings I've tried. But that's not important for TMO users, just fun for me to play with.

Mikemike47 · 08-20-13, 01:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bubblehead1980

Welcome Back, I was wondering where you have been.I was away from SH 4 myself for a while.

Not sure if were around when you last payed but some mods that I think are fairly new that are must haves way I see it, may want to check them out.

Welcome back, Rockin Robbins.
Traveler's Mod V 2.6

Rockin Robbins · 08-20-13, 06:37 PM

Thank you! Just found out that Ducimus did the same "make the target vanish at higher magnification" trick that the RFB crew did. Good thing I have the TMOPlot mod to fix itl. What a shame when you have to mod TMO to make it play like TMO...

Otherwise it would be a deal killer. If anybody can come up with a rationalization for why you can see a target when standing 4 feet from the chart table, but when you move in to do measurements it vanishes, I'd love to hear it. I can't imagine what they were thinking, but it was so wrong it makes SH4 play like playing darts in a crowded room with blinders on. Not too bright.

c13Garrison · 08-20-13, 07:02 PM

Quantum Mechanics.

airsangel · 08-20-13, 07:29 PM

i use ez plot ...fixes that and one in operation monsun 2

TorpX · 08-20-13, 09:15 PM

Welcome back RR, if I didn't say that already!

It sounds like Ducimus wanted to make precise measurement of distances on the charts more difficult/impossible.

What I don't understand is why your super torps don't work as well. Did he change the hit points of all the ships? Wouldn't that be rather a lot of work?

Rockin Robbins · 08-21-13, 07:58 AM

Well they work as expected on some other ships--haven't tested them all yet. Then I loaded the Yamato into my Shooting Gallery Test Range to shoot it with a subnuclear torpedo. The torpedo went boom, looked just like a normal torpedo hit.

As much as I amped up the min and max splash damage there was no real change in the amount of damage. Occasionally, as SH4 does, I would get what looked like a big hit and there would be no visible hull damage at all! Of course we all know that's just eyecandy and the damage is there nonetheless.

So I upped the armor penetration points to 9999. No change. I'm away from the computer so I can't be precise. But all the adjustments that normally resulted in gratuitous carnage no longer worked very well.

So I went to the sim file and tweaked the impulse specification in the detonation category, the only non-eyecandy explosion parameter there. I could bounce the end of the boat out of the water by increasing it ludicrously (and what IS slightly subnuclear technology BUT ludicrous

).

That's as far as I am. I still have to pull RSRD out ot eliminate that as the cause. I still have to pull TMO out to make absolutely sure that is the ONLY cause.

So still early in the investigation and it's doing me a lot of good in relearning how to play, too.

You know, as far as the plot goes, if your sub had radar you could plot better than the original TMO system, because of binning caused by pixel position. You can't place a pixel between two pixel positions. The real sub's radar was analog vector graphics, so it could.

So with representing targets as identical dots (less information than the radar would give), and errors relating to pixel binning, the original TMO was ALREADY less accurate and gave you less information than the real submarine had. To nerf it further is indefensible.

But toward the end Ducimus was listening to too many whiners and not following his own sense of mod identity. I think he quit because he saw that he was just making change after change to make the "crowd" happy and the mod was losing its identity. And of course, Duci was tired and no longer concerned about the vision of what the mod was supposed to be anyway. The only reason he continued was the whining of the crowd, which is a lousy reward for service.

Looks to me like he quit too late. I'll probably ramp back to 1.8 or 2.0 if I can find the files. What a shame!

You know, I'd rather have information I shouldn't historically have and play realistically by ignoring it than to be denied information that every sub commander had and depended on to do his job. Difficulty is not realism. It's silly arcade stuff.

You know, if a real captain visited the plot, and they did so often, they wouldn't see a blank sea with no positions marked. He wouldn't have to remember all the numbers from the bridge or conning tower and mark the positions himself as he remembered them. His crew would have been told the numbers in real time and made a plot that looks very much like the original stock SH4 plot or TMO with EZPlot layered on top of it. They would have more error but the captain would have that much information. ID of targets, direction of travel, all that stuff would be there.

TMOPlot removes the ID of the ships, replaces the scale silhouettes with identical dots for position. This way you can't tell the course and speed of your target without taking a series of observations, just like the real thing. You can't tell if the target is friend or foe either. Although the plot looks different from what a real captain would see, its nerfs are historically defensible. Although they aren't quite kosher, they do the best we can without hacking EXE files and getting Ubi's panties in a wad, as if that were something we really cared about as Ubi isn't too concerned about us. It's just not the right thing to do to go hacking EXE files even if it IS Ubi, who richly deserve it. But TMOPlot, by introducing a plotting system that is a little unrealistic, makes you act realistically.

The new plotting system is just a travesty. It is nothing more than turning chart plotting off in the options, REMOVING the player's option of deciding for himself how he would like to play the game. I don't have any problem at all with people ramping up the difficulty settings. Just don't try to claim it makes the game more realistic. That's a crock.

It's similar to increasing the realism settings on life by putting a bag over your head when crossing six lanes of traffic in downtown Atlanta. It's commendable if you live through the experience--you've just done something any competent blind person does every day and never thinks twice about. As a matter of fact, during the World Trade Center bombing when the stairways were choked with so much smoke nobody could see, it was a blind man who calmed dozens and (with the help of his incredible guide dog) guided them to safety. Other than the effects on breathing, it was a day like any other day to him. So would it have helped a normal sighted person to put a bag over his head in that situation? The fractured thinking in the abortion of a plotting system devolves into comedy.

c13Garrison · 08-21-13, 12:24 PM

I don't mean to sound ignorant, but perhaps I am as I'm new here.

I've played about 30-some-odd missions with TMO2.5/RSRD, and aside from my difficulty in finding 'message traffic' identified forces at sea, I have no complaints. It feels immersive, beautiful, & fun, and as realistic as my current understanding allows. My targets appear on the Nav table as far as I seem to need them.

What am I missing?

I'm not trying to prod someone who has a sound and well informed opinion, I just want to learn.

08-17-13, 03:58 PM	#4130
Rockin Robbins Navy Seal Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: DeLand, FL Posts: 8,899 Downloads: 135 Uploads: 52	I'm going to be very busy just trying to recover some poor skill at the game. It's amazing how you remember the overall picture but lose all the fine details that make producing the picture possible! I've got a lot to relearn and I'm foolishly resuming my last campaign! It would be very hard to stir up much trouble if I'm swimming.... Good to see you and others still here, John. Is AVG still around here? __________________ Sub Skipper's Bag of Tricks, Slightly Subnuclear Mk 14 & Cutie, Slightly Subnuclear Deck Gun, EZPlot 2.0, TMOPlot, TMOKeys, SH4CMS

08-20-13, 11:18 AM	#4133
Rockin Robbins Navy Seal Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: DeLand, FL Posts: 8,899 Downloads: 135 Uploads: 52	I found that my Shooting Gallery Test Range mission in the downloads area wasn 't working right. So I downloaded it and as soon as I started fooling with it, realized that I have forgotten far more than I ever knew! Working now but I made so many mistakes fixing that one........ Also, Slightly Subnuclear Mark 14 and Cutie isn't working the same under TMO 2.5 as it did under 1.x. It used to incinerate an aircraft carrier and now I can bounce it around a bit by juicing up the explosion beyond my original settings, but I can't sink one with one torpedo any more no matter what settings I've tried. But that's not important for TMO users, just fun for me to play with. __________________ Sub Skipper's Bag of Tricks, Slightly Subnuclear Mk 14 & Cutie, Slightly Subnuclear Deck Gun, EZPlot 2.0, TMOPlot, TMOKeys, SH4CMS

08-20-13, 06:37 PM	#4135
Rockin Robbins Navy Seal Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: DeLand, FL Posts: 8,899 Downloads: 135 Uploads: 52	Thank you! Just found out that Ducimus did the same "make the target vanish at higher magnification" trick that the RFB crew did. Good thing I have the TMOPlot mod to fix itl. What a shame when you have to mod TMO to make it play like TMO... Otherwise it would be a deal killer. If anybody can come up with a rationalization for why you can see a target when standing 4 feet from the chart table, but when you move in to do measurements it vanishes, I'd love to hear it. I can't imagine what they were thinking, but it was so wrong it makes SH4 play like playing darts in a crowded room with blinders on. Not too bright. __________________ Sub Skipper's Bag of Tricks, Slightly Subnuclear Mk 14 & Cutie, Slightly Subnuclear Deck Gun, EZPlot 2.0, TMOPlot, TMOKeys, SH4CMS

08-20-13, 09:15 PM	#4138
TorpX Silent Hunter Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 3,975 Downloads: 153 Uploads: 11	Welcome back RR, if I didn't say that already! It sounds like Ducimus wanted to make precise measurement of distances on the charts more difficult/impossible. What I don't understand is why your super torps don't work as well. Did he change the hit points of all the ships? Wouldn't that be rather a lot of work?

08-21-13, 07:58 AM	#4139
Rockin Robbins Navy Seal Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: DeLand, FL Posts: 8,899 Downloads: 135 Uploads: 52	Well they work as expected on some other ships--haven't tested them all yet. Then I loaded the Yamato into my Shooting Gallery Test Range to shoot it with a subnuclear torpedo. The torpedo went boom, looked just like a normal torpedo hit. As much as I amped up the min and max splash damage there was no real change in the amount of damage. Occasionally, as SH4 does, I would get what looked like a big hit and there would be no visible hull damage at all! Of course we all know that's just eyecandy and the damage is there nonetheless. So I upped the armor penetration points to 9999. No change. I'm away from the computer so I can't be precise. But all the adjustments that normally resulted in gratuitous carnage no longer worked very well. So I went to the sim file and tweaked the impulse specification in the detonation category, the only non-eyecandy explosion parameter there. I could bounce the end of the boat out of the water by increasing it ludicrously (and what IS slightly subnuclear technology BUT ludicrous). That's as far as I am. I still have to pull RSRD out ot eliminate that as the cause. I still have to pull TMO out to make absolutely sure that is the ONLY cause. So still early in the investigation and it's doing me a lot of good in relearning how to play, too. You know, as far as the plot goes, if your sub had radar you could plot better than the original TMO system, because of binning caused by pixel position. You can't place a pixel between two pixel positions. The real sub's radar was analog vector graphics, so it could. So with representing targets as identical dots (less information than the radar would give), and errors relating to pixel binning, the original TMO was ALREADY less accurate and gave you less information than the real submarine had. To nerf it further is indefensible. But toward the end Ducimus was listening to too many whiners and not following his own sense of mod identity. I think he quit because he saw that he was just making change after change to make the "crowd" happy and the mod was losing its identity. And of course, Duci was tired and no longer concerned about the vision of what the mod was supposed to be anyway. The only reason he continued was the whining of the crowd, which is a lousy reward for service. Looks to me like he quit too late. I'll probably ramp back to 1.8 or 2.0 if I can find the files. What a shame! You know, I'd rather have information I shouldn't historically have and play realistically by ignoring it than to be denied information that every sub commander had and depended on to do his job. Difficulty is not realism. It's silly arcade stuff. You know, if a real captain visited the plot, and they did so often, they wouldn't see a blank sea with no positions marked. He wouldn't have to remember all the numbers from the bridge or conning tower and mark the positions himself as he remembered them. His crew would have been told the numbers in real time and made a plot that looks very much like the original stock SH4 plot or TMO with EZPlot layered on top of it. They would have more error but the captain would have that much information. ID of targets, direction of travel, all that stuff would be there. TMOPlot removes the ID of the ships, replaces the scale silhouettes with identical dots for position. This way you can't tell the course and speed of your target without taking a series of observations, just like the real thing. You can't tell if the target is friend or foe either. Although the plot looks different from what a real captain would see, its nerfs are historically defensible. Although they aren't quite kosher, they do the best we can without hacking EXE files and getting Ubi's panties in a wad, as if that were something we really cared about as Ubi isn't too concerned about us. It's just not the right thing to do to go hacking EXE files even if it IS Ubi, who richly deserve it. But TMOPlot, by introducing a plotting system that is a little unrealistic, makes you act realistically. The new plotting system is just a travesty. It is nothing more than turning chart plotting off in the options, REMOVING the player's option of deciding for himself how he would like to play the game. I don't have any problem at all with people ramping up the difficulty settings. Just don't try to claim it makes the game more realistic. That's a crock. It's similar to increasing the realism settings on life by putting a bag over your head when crossing six lanes of traffic in downtown Atlanta. It's commendable if you live through the experience--you've just done something any competent blind person does every day and never thinks twice about. As a matter of fact, during the World Trade Center bombing when the stairways were choked with so much smoke nobody could see, it was a blind man who calmed dozens and (with the help of his incredible guide dog) guided them to safety. Other than the effects on breathing, it was a day like any other day to him. So would it have helped a normal sighted person to put a bag over his head in that situation? The fractured thinking in the abortion of a plotting system devolves into comedy. __________________ Sub Skipper's Bag of Tricks, Slightly Subnuclear Mk 14 & Cutie, Slightly Subnuclear Deck Gun, EZPlot 2.0, TMOPlot, TMOKeys, SH4CMS Last edited by Rockin Robbins; 08-21-13 at 08:22 AM.

08-20-13, 07:02 PM	#4136
c13Garrison Ensign Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Chicago-ish, USA Posts: 223 Downloads: 14 Uploads: 0	Quantum Mechanics.

08-20-13, 07:29 PM	#4137
airsangel Loader Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 84 Downloads: 215 Uploads: 0	i use ez plot ...fixes that and one in operation monsun 2

08-21-13, 12:24 PM	#4140
c13Garrison Ensign Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Chicago-ish, USA Posts: 223 Downloads: 14 Uploads: 0	I don't mean to sound ignorant, but perhaps I am as I'm new here. I've played about 30-some-odd missions with TMO2.5/RSRD, and aside from my difficulty in finding 'message traffic' identified forces at sea, I have no complaints. It feels immersive, beautiful, & fun, and as realistic as my current understanding allows. My targets appear on the Nav table as far as I seem to need them. What am I missing? I'm not trying to prod someone who has a sound and well informed opinion, I just want to learn.