US Politics Thread 2016-2020

[vienna]

Hmm, you seem to have missed quite a bit, particularly facts. Mueller has so far gotten two guilty pleas from a series of indictments, including Trump's former National Security Advisor, and I'd think having a criminal appointed to such a high and sensitive position is in itself a matter of national security concern; so, it would seem Mueller has indeed been effective in his investigations. Add to this two other Trump campaign officials/advisors with Russian ties also indicted and it further indicates tangible progress is being made. In the wings is the probable indictments of Don Jr., who has openly acknowledged the authenticity of email exchanges regarding meetings with Russian operatives regarding election dealings, and of Jared Kushner, who was present at at least one of the meetings and was knowledgeable of and a participant in the aforementioned email exchange and who has, additionally, other ties with Russian entities. It would seem Mueller is doing his job and doing it well...

Not going fast enough for you? Its that nagging thing called due process; a couple of those guys claim innocence and apparently want a day in court to have it proven or disprove and, dang it, if the Constitution doesn't throw up a road block to your desired 'quick resolution' by saying they do, indeed get their day in court...

What is upsetting the Trump camp the most is the fact the investigations are, indeed, finding criminality in the conduct of those around Trump and the fact those charges may very well be proven as true. If there is one thing Trump and his administration and his minions abhor, its truth...








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[Rockstar]

If I'm not mistaken Russian collusion was the reason this investigated started but no evidence has been brought forth. Just a few side shows and two investigators fired for bias.

The puppet will continue to dance for his handlers

[Mr Quatro]

It might not even be over when it's over I heard a rumor that this investigation by the special investigator Mueller will take much longer than we think.

They have only spent something like 2 million dollars so far on this investigation and that's not much compared to what Russia spent to influence the 2016 election.

Speaking of money ... how much advertising income has been produced by the turmoil of this investigation?

Incalculable, uh?

[vienna]

Originally Posted by Rockstar

If I'm not mistaken Russian collusion was the reason this investigated started but no evidence has been brought forth. Just a few side shows and two investigators fired for bias.

The puppet will continue to dance for his handlers

...and, if I'm not mistaken, the Ken Starr investigation started out to investigate Clinton involvement in Whitewater and all they got was a stained dress, no indictments and a very huge public embarrassment for the GOP...

...and, if I'm not mistaken, the Watergate investigation started out to investigate possible criminality and conspiracy in the Committee to Re-Elect the President (CREEP) and wound up finding the Oval Office was the center of the conspiracies and the President (Nixon) was the knowing and willing participant to the crimes...

...and a very huge public embarrassment for the GOP...

I'd say keeping a criminal such as Flynn away from the highest levels of the US government alone makes it worth the effort...

Let the GOP continue to attempt to defend and protect Trump's administration (instead of the Constitution and laws of the US) and I'll just sit here and wait for...

... a very huge public embarrassment for the GOP...







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[vienna]

Originally Posted by Mr Quatro

It might not even be over when it's over I heard a rumor that this investigation by the special investigator Mueller will take much longer than we think.

They have only spent something like 2 million dollars so far on this investigation and that's not much compared to what Russia spent to influence the 2016 election.

Speaking of money ... how much advertising income has been produced by the turmoil of this investigation?

Incalculable, uh?

Well, you've found an actual, tangible example of Trump boosting the economy...







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[Rockstar]

So what you're saying its more about the GOP than anything else?

[vienna]

Originally Posted by Rockstar

So what you're saying its more about the GOP than anything else?

Nope. It just happens that the GOP keeps putting itself in these high profile, embarrassing situations. Pity, though; you'd think they'd learn to avoid getting linked so tightly to boondoggles...







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[Rockstar]

Ohh I see, but again no charges of Russian collusion only unrelated charges of lying to the FBI, conspiracy to launder money and making false statements to FBI agents.Then to top it off, Mueller removes FBI agents over bias anti-Trump text messages.


yep sounds like another boondoggle and national embarrassment costing tax payers a truck load of money.

[em2nought]

The absolute best thing about President Trump is that he keeps exposing enemies of the American people. Someone that considers a large portion of those people to be deplorable was where he started, and next he exposed the fake news. NATO members not paying their fair share, let's call them out. He's working on exposing the deep state now, something I just had an inkling of. I've never thought anyone taking a government paycheck should be able to vote personally, but I now see it's much, much worse than that.

Next up the U.N., no big thing to expose how anti-USA that organization is, but hey lets do it anyway. It's getting to be a fun ride! Keep bashing those waves against the rock, it's working pretty good so far.

I'm looking forward to Hollywood, but the really big one he needs to tackle is "education", we have got to turn education pro USA, it's been anti-USA for far too long.

[Mr Quatro]

This man does not think that President Trump is a mental case: https://www.statnews.com/2017/09/06/...ess-diagnosis/


I helped write the manual for diagnosing mental illness. Donald Trump doesn’t meet the criteria

Confusing Trump’s behavior with mental illness unfairly stigmatizes those who are truly mentally ill, underestimates his considerable cunning, and misdirects our efforts at future harm reduction. And the three most frequent armchair diagnoses made for Trump — narcissistic personality disorder, delusional disorder, and dementia — are all badly misinformed.

I fear Trump will come unglued someday if things don't go his way ... more than likely a tweet here or a tweet there or NK pulling his chain. People that dislike Trump are not going to rally to his defense and people that like Trump will continue to stay on their side of the fence.

Re-election does seem like a far far thing away though, uh?

[vienna]

Originally Posted by Rockstar

Ohh I see, but again no charges of Russian collusion only unrelated charges of lying to the FBI, conspiracy to launder money and making false statements to FBI agents.Then to top it off, Mueller removes FBI agents over bias anti-Trump text messages.


yep sounds like another boondoggle and national embarrassment costing tax payers a truck load of money.

You're still a bit behind on the facts. The charges are related: Flynn lied about his meetings with Russian operatives as it related to the Trump campaign activities and Trump transition activities. The money laundering may be related if it bears on Manafort's efforts as the then campaign manager for the Trump campaign. The answer to that question won't be fully known until due process runs its course in the courts. All the charges are as related as the charges against Clinton and the charges against Nixon; the prosecutors in those cases found other criminality in the course of their investigations and, as sworn officers of the court and/or law enforcement officials, they are duty bound to report those crimes and, if they hold brief as prosecutors, to pursue judgement of those crimes in court -- again , due process. Am I to presume by your protestations, you are condoning a prosecutor to ignore criminality just because the crimes did not fall into the original scope of an investigation? It is not uncommon for even a patrol office on his beat to check into a situation for one purpose only to find a much larger set of crimes to be in play. By your claims, if an officer checked a house for burglary call and, in peeking through the window, sees a presumably dead body, he should not expand the scope of his investigations because a possible murder falls outside the scope of a burglary investigation. There is this new thing; it's called common sense...

By the way, collusion is not a crime, unless you are speaking of anti-trust law (you see the word in some sports law reportage, but, again, in the framework of anti-trust). No one involved in whatever has transpired in the Trump campaign/transition is going to get charged with collusion. Even Trump seems to be ignorant (as usual) of the fact collusion is not a crime; and given the fact he is so desperate to have an 'official', non-adjudicated, finding of 'non-collusion', one wonders what it is he wants to avoid seeing the light of day and the courts...

Here is a link to a rather good article explaining what collusion is and isn't:


What Is Collusion? Is It Even a Crime? --

https://www.politico.com/magazine/st...llusion-215366


No matter how Trump and his minions try to spin their "facts", the the real facts and the real truth is actual crimes have been committed and indictments have come down, with more to come; in addition, two guilty pleas have been given; one by a former Trump Foreign Policy Advisor, George Papadopoulos. I am going to make a guess you haven't actually read the court filing of his guilty plea and the details of his stipulation and allocution, so here is a link to a pdf copy of the filing; just by the content of his plea, there is sufficient to warrant a continued probe:

https://www.justice.gov/file/1007346/download


It is pretty specific and pretty damning for Papadopolous, and it may be for some of those in the Trump camp with whom he had contact and conduct...


The second guilty plea is Gen. Flynn's; here is a link to the official court filing of his guilty plea, again specific:

https://www.justice.gov/file/1015126/download


Something to consider about the Flynn guilty plea: it is the result of a plea bargain in which Flynn had other far more serious Federal charges set aside, including conspiring to kidnap a person on US soil and transporting him to the control of a foreign government, all without due process, which, if he had actually done so as the National Security Adviser would have opened him up to possible charges of illegal extraordinary rendition, so he dodged a massive bullet. w, when a a plea bargain is offered to an suspect, the prosecutor lays out the basic case he has against the suspect in order to impress on the person the severity of the charges, the nature of the evidence and/or testimony against the person, and the probable punishments if the charges are taken to trial. Whatever Mueller has on Flynn in relation to the set aside charges, it was sufficiently serious to make Flynn willingly agree to a deal and agree to turns state's evidence and cooperate with the prosecution...

The other side of the coin is this: Mueller gave up prosecuting Flynn on very serious charges, so what was his incentive to do so? Mueller must have his eyes set on far more serious and higher level criminality and feels he can afford to subsume Flynn into his ongoing investigation and prosecution as an asset, and Mueller must feel the price of letting Flynn slide on the more serious charges is worth it;; It will be interesting to see what else is going to develop form Flynn's cooperation...

One thing that has developed is Flynn has apparently lost the defensive support of Trump, who called Flynn a "wonderful man" and who has, in the past decried the 'mistreatment' of Flynn. Now it appears Trump has "lost that loving feeling" and he and his minions are gearing up to smear Flynn's reputation to an extent not even remotely approached by either the prosecutors or the press; in fact, it looks like Trump, et al, are going to take their "Trumped-up" notions to the "lying, mainstream press" in order to save their skins:


From 'wonderful man' to 'liar': Trump legal team readies attack on Flynn's credibility --

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/n...227-story.html


Trump legal team readies attack on Flynn’s credibility --

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/newr...eply&p=2533496


I guess, for Trump, lying is okay if you are doing it for him. Since Flynn did lie for his boss and is now suffering mightily for it, this should be an object lesson for others in the Trump camp: if you cross Trump by telling the truth, he will not have your back, no matter how much of a "wonderful man" he calls you...







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[vienna]

Originally Posted by Mr Quatro

This man does not think that President Trump is a mental case: https://www.statnews.com/2017/09/06/...ess-diagnosis/


I helped write the manual for diagnosing mental illness. Donald Trump doesn’t meet the criteria

Quote:
Confusing Trump’s behavior with mental illness unfairly stigmatizes those who are truly mentally ill, underestimates his considerable cunning, and misdirects our efforts at future harm reduction. And the three most frequent armchair diagnoses made for Trump — narcissistic personality disorder, delusional disorder, and dementia — are all badly misinformed.
I fear Trump will come unglued someday if things don't go his way ... more than likely a tweet here or a tweet there or NK pulling his chain. People that dislike Trump are not going to rally to his defense and people that like Trump will continue to stay on their side of the fence.



I fear Trump will come unglued someday if things don't go his way ... more than likely a tweet here or a tweet there or NK pulling his chain. People that dislike Trump are not going to rally to his defense and people that like Trump will continue to stay on their side of the fence.

Re-election does seem like a far far thing away though, uh?

So, basically, in the quote you provided, Trump is giving the mentally ill a bad name...

The prospect of a fully unhinged Trump is, indeed, worrisome. Having followed the unhinging of Nixon during Watergate, one significant difference between the two is Nixon actually was a far more grounded personality. Nixon was criminal, but not as a result of mental illness or deficiency. Nixon knew the realities and, even though facts and reality took him down in the end, he was not self-delusional. Trump, on the other hand has most tenuous grip on reality; he has his people spoon feeding him "good news" stories about himself and stroking an already massive ego and a highly-distorted sense of self (not at all unlike Kim in NK). Right now, his is still on the remaining bit of his presidential "high". but like all "highs", the crash at the end can be brutal and his strike-back could be equally so...







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[em2nought]

[Skybird]

Lets not mix the diagnostical categories of mental illnesses with personality structures, some constellations of which can be seen and described as antisocial, psychopathological, but always judging the destructiveness of this only in social and cutural contexts , because a certain dose of these can be necessary to make you successful in one field - while too much of it makes you a nemesis to thy next. An attacker in football will never fulfill his role as a goal striker if he always plays team-oriented and altruisically passes the ball to somebody else. A certain dose of egoism and confidence is needed. The doctor who cannot cut into a patients body in order not to inure him by that cut and shed his blood, will not cure his patient when surgery indeed is needed for his survival, a certain dose of cold-bloodedness and imperial attitude is necessary. A businessman alwqays playing soft and cooperative with rivals, hrdly can be imagined to ever be realyl successful, and an inventor not believing in his idea and skills, will most likely never earn rewards for his genius.

The trick is: to find a working, constructive mix and balance. And this balance works terribly bad in case of Trump. His business career is more shine than substance, and so are his policies. His personality shows a very strong accentuation of antisocial, psychopathic traits.

Difference made between these things in both the DSM and the ICD, leave a lot of questions and are open for quite some abuse. Also the lack of differences made, are dubious, where they have been eradicated in revisions of the past 30 years - all too often not due to new scientific evidence or medical findings but Zeitgeist vogues and political correctness.

I am no big fan of these manuals, ICD and DSM. Maybe the purely medical chapters in the ICD make more sense (I never cared to check them out, I am no medical doctor), but in the fields of my own former profession, pychology, I am critical of them.

As I said in another thread just a day ago, these manuals were meant to standardize communication in international science exchange, originally they were not that much meant for practice, at least the ICD. It was only to make sure that everybody means the same thing when using a term or diagnostical category, no matter whether he came from Europe, North America or Central Arica. Dysthymia is what the ICD defines it to be, its not what they understand by this term in Chicago, while in Paris they understand this term to mean something different . Whether that category in itself makes sense or not - that is a completely different thing. And politics and popular social opinions interfere heavily here.

[Rockstar]

irrefutable facts:

Rasmussen Poll shows Trump at 46% APPROVE this morning, with 53% DISAPPROVE...

Obama at same exact date first year in presidency?? 46% APPROVE, 53% DISAPPROVE!

irrefutable Mueller boondoggle results:

1. 1 count lying to the FBI, 1 count conspiracy to launder money and 1 count making false statements to FBI agents.

2. Mueller greatly assists defense team by removing FBI chief investigators over their bias anti-Trump text messages.

3. As of 5 December the boondoggle has cost the American taxpayer is 3.2 million dollars.

4. the boondoggle continues...