[REL] Open Horizons II

[gap]

Originally Posted by Targor Avelany

so far was not able to find anything. I'll throw the file back at you tomorrow and see if we can narrow it down.

Okay, I am waiting for the file

[Targor Avelany]

gap, your inbox is full again!

[gap]

Originally Posted by Targor Avelany

gap, your inbox is full again!

Just made some free space

[Targor Avelany]

I think I might have found something. Try to export from wings3d without the "-e" signs. In 3ds max it's called "relative numbers"

I don't think GR2 Editor reads them correctly, resulting in the throwing off the UVs. I have no clue where in wing3d this setting might be tho.

[gap]

Originally Posted by Targor Avelany

I think I might have found something. Try to export from wings3d without the "-e" signs. In 3ds max it's called "relative numbers"

I don't think GR2 Editor reads them correctly, resulting in the throwing off the UVs. I have no clue where in wing3d this setting might be tho.

Do you mean the scientific notation used for very small numbers?

It could be, but your theory doesn't explain why map coordinates get distorted only around the borders of each group of polygons which is mapped as a separate element on the UV map.

Unfortunately, I don't think that the wings3d exporter got an option for changing the precision/notation of coordinates exported, but I will try exporting the balloon from Softimage, Blender, and s3d, and I will report back.

[Targor Avelany]

valid point. But it is the only thing I noticed different so far that might cause that. The only other difference there is are that "vt"s are missing one of the coords (only 2, not 3) in the wing3d. But 3ds max just fills it with 0s, so...

Edit: Well, tried importing/exporting w/ blender. GR2 editor just didn't like it, claiming there are no verts found.

[gap]

Originally Posted by Targor Avelany

valid point. But it is the only thing I noticed different so far that might cause that. The only other difference there is are that "vt"s are missing one of the coords (only 2, not 3) in the wing3d. But 3ds max just fills it with 0s, so...

I have tried importing my object both into Softimage Mod Tool and S3d, and I have exported it back. Result: GR2 throws a missing subset definition @ line number 25663. Using one material instead of two and exporting again from Mod Tool/S3d didn't help either. Interestingly, the exported obj files had much lesser than the 25663 lines mentioned in the GR2E warning message!

At this point I am left with just two options:

- buying s3d and using it as a Wings3d to GR2 Editor obj file converter...

- or, while we wait for TDW to show up and to tell us what is going on with his importer, disturbing you everytime I need to create a new GR2 object

P.S: another problem I have noticed is with smoothing groups. If an object contains any of them, TDW's application won't import it. I am almost sure that the GR2 format don't support them, but it would be more user friendly if GR2 Editor warned you on the existence of un-importable smoothing groups, and kept on the import process ignoring them.

Originally Posted by Targor Avelany

Edit: Well, tried importing/exporting w/ blender. GR2 editor just didn't like it, claiming there are no verts found.

Well, Blender is tricky on itself. This is a shame because going by what I have read on it on the web, it is a powerful tool. Comparable to Maya under many aspects, and what is worth noting, it is in continuous development and totally free. Yet, the last time I tried exporting a mesh from it, it generated an empty obj file

[Targor Avelany]

Originally Posted by gap

I have tried importing my object both into Softimage Mod Tool and S3d, and I have exported it back. Result: GR2 throws a missing subset definition @ line number 25663. Using one material instead of two and exporting again from Mod Tool/S3d didn't help either. Interestingly, the exported obj files had much lesser than the 25663 lines mentioned in the GR2E warning message!

At this point I am left with just two options:

- buying s3d and using it as a Wings3d to GR2 Editor obj file converter...

- or, while we wait for TDW to show up and to tell us what is going on with his importer, disturbing you everytime I need to create a new GR2 object

P.S: another problem I have noticed is with smoothing groups. If an object contains any of them, TDW's application won't import it. I am almost sure that the GR2 format don't support them, but it would be more user friendly if GR2 Editor warned you on the existence of un-importable smoothing groups, and kept on the import process ignoring them.



Well, Blender is tricky on itself. This is a shame because going by what I have read on it on the web, it is a powerful tool. Comparable to Maya under many aspects, and what is worth noting, it is in continuous development and totally free. Yet, the last time I tried exporting a mesh from it, it generated an empty obj file

You can disturb me any time. I'm glad to help, as my own project is not moving very fast at all at the moment (constantly getting distructed by rl stuff instead of spending 2-3 hours on it).

In regards to Blender: yeah, that is something I do want to learn properly sooner or later. From what I have heard it can be an extremely good tool. I also heard really nice reviewes on creating various maps from it. Though I still like xnormal very much.

p.s. And why would you need to by s3d? I thought it's free?

[gap]

Originally Posted by Targor Avelany

You can disturb me any time. I'm glad to help, as my own project is not moving very fast at all at the moment (constantly getting distructed by rl stuff instead of spending 2-3 hours on it).

Thank you,

I am going to send you some files then

Originally Posted by Targor Avelany

In regards to Blender: yeah, that is something I do want to learn properly sooner or later. From what I have heard it can be an extremely good tool. I also heard really nice reviewes on creating various maps from it. Though I still like xnormal very much.

From what I've read, the one major drawback about Blender is its user interface, which doesn't resamble any other 3d modelling program. It gets time getting used to it.
Personally I find great Wings 3d's contextual menues; Wings got all you really need for mesh modelling and for basic UV-mapping. It also features a sculpt tool which is useful for creating organic models, but it lacks some other advanced features, mesh animations most notably, that are in Blender and in other GPL modellers.

Recently, under privateer's suggestion, I have started working with Softimage Mod Tool, the freeware wersion of XSI (the program used by devs for creating AO maps). Creating AO maps with it (thery are called "render maps"), is relatively easy, but in several cases I got to touch up the baked maps for removing some artifacts. Probably I still need to find the right settings. I have also used Softimage's poly reduction tool, and I must say that it is a very user friendly and flexible feature (models are recalculated in real time), useful for optimizing models before importing them in game, or for creating LOD models. What matters the more, results are very good and depending on reduction ratio and other settings, the difference with the orignal model is hardly noticeable. Another great tool that I plan to use in future for mesh cleaning and optimization, is MeshLab.

XNormal is installed on my PC, but I didn't start using it yet. I have noticed it can generate a wide range of maps, including normal maps, but so far I have used the Photoshop plug-in by Nvidia for creating them.

Originally Posted by Targor Avelany

p.s. And why would you need to by s3d? I thought it's free?

Oh, sorry, I meant 3ds but I am not going to buy it anyway

[Targor Avelany]

Sounds good. Let me know what exactly will you need to be done with the models and I'll take care of it.

Btw, accept my admiration for how well you have done the balloon in wings3d Not the easiest interface either. Also very outdated now, I believe the program hasn't been developed since 2011? Very impressive, sir!

Also, I will continue trying to figure out if not the reason behind the issue, but at least if there is another program that you can use as converter to be able to import. I don't particularly think it is fare that you can't considering how much work you put into this.

[gap]

Originally Posted by Targor Avelany

Sounds good. Let me know what exactly will you need to be done with the models and I'll take care of it.

Just one thing at this moment: converting them to a format that can be read by GR2 Editor without corruptions

Originally Posted by Targor Avelany

Btw, accept my admiration for how well you have done the balloon in wings3d

...

Very impressive, sir!

Thank you for the nice words Targor. Trevally's version of the balloon was an excellent base to start from. Initially I only wanted to UV map it and to improve its smoothing (something I had promised more than one year ago), but then I got carried away...

Originally Posted by Targor Avelany

...Not the easiest interface either.

Do you think? Once you get used to its contextual menues and to its many shortcuts, working with it is quite straightforward. Moreover, the lack of advanced features compared to other programs, can be seen as a pro: as a beginner you don't risk getting lost with them, and you focus on doing things the hard way

Originally Posted by Targor Avelany

...Also very outdated now, I believe the program hasn't been developed since 2011?

True, the last stable version (1.4.1) is dated February 2011, but since then many unofficial versions have been released. The latest beta "snapshot" (v. 1.5.pre1.38.g62be8) was released nine months ago, and the last Manifold "plug-in set" (1.5.0.2013-07-31) lesser than two months ago. Indeed, they are lesser stable than the release version, but they have many new features. An example? The last week I was amazed by the possibility to preview a normal map rendered on top of a model directly in the Wings 3d viewport

Originally Posted by Targor Avelany

Also, I will continue trying to figure out if not the reason behind the issue, but at least if there is another program that you can use as converter to be able to import. I don't particularly think it is fare that you can't considering how much work you put into this.

Well, as far as you or someone else will help me exporting my model(s) from 3ds, I can't complain too much.

On the other hand, I hope that TDW will resume his work on the GR2 Editor soon. The weird thing about my problem is that IIRC both TDW and BIGREG, who helped TDW with testing, are Wings 3d users. This leads me to think that I might be doing something wrong, but I have already tried every export option combination, and with no results

TDW's GR2 program will not import anything that does not follow strict placement of sections. Unlike all most every other program that opens obj files.

Sections must be not be mixed as such............

V
VT
VN

V
VT
VN

And on to end of file.

or any variation of above.

[gap]

Originally Posted by privateer

TDW's GR2 program will not import anything that does not follow strict placement of sections. Unlike all most every other program that opens obj files.

Sections must be not be mixed as such............

V
VT
VN

V
VT
VN

And on to end of file.

or any variation of above.

Thank you privateer, I will try your suggestion and I will re-arrange the sections of my exported obj files

http://www.dataparse.com/

Get the free version! It makes editing things very easy!
I use 010 editor and script in that but it's not free.
I just started useing Data Parse but I'm very impressed with it.

[gap]

Originally Posted by privateer

http://www.dataparse.com/

Get the free version! It makes editing things very easy!
I use 010 editor and script in that but it's not free.
I just started useing Data Parse but I'm very impressed with it.

Thank you mate. Downloading the program now!

I was just thinking about setting a VBA script processing automatically obj files for compatibility with TDW's application. Hopefully this won't be necessary.