[WIP] Cold War Mod - Page 21

treblesum81 · 05-23-08, 10:42 AM

Quote:

I do have one small concern, though... How do we get infinite O2 on nuclear boats without cheating and without using a snorkle command?

To the best of my knowledge, the easiest way would be to increase the O2 capacity of the sub to some huge number, maybe 30x-60x that of our 24 hour WWII base subs. The other option, if its possible, would be to significantly reduce the crews air usage... simulating the constant "scrubbing" of the same air. In either case, Nukes don't really have an "infinite" O2 supply , per se. Instead they use a combination of high efficiency CO2 scrubbers (something like 2x as efficient as those used on spacecraft at the moment, IIRC) and the occasional snorkel air venting to refresh the supply. It is true that the sub does not need to resupply its O2 for quite some time, but due to the limitations of the scrubbers (its a technology that gives diminishing returns over time) and the concern for the health and well being of the crew (stale, month old air is just not that great of an experience), subs routinely vent their atmospere every chance they get...

Also, nukes don't have infinite fuel either. Yes, a nuke could stay at sea for an extremely long time if its only concern was how long its fuel rods would last... I would say a good 4-6 months... due to the fact that most of a sub's endurance limitations are owed to crew requirements (food, sanity) and not to mechanical requirements. But that being said, the fuel rods do become spent after a time and need to be replaced. Because of this, I think maybe we shouldn't shoot for "infinite fuel", but rather try to tweak the engines into "ultra efficiency". This would be achieved by reducing the fuel intake of the engines to the point where 80 days at flank speed would reduce the fuel quantity to, say, 50%. In this way we wouldn't be facing some of the wierd side effects of trying to manipulate physics.

On those models that can be found online, I think they may become a valuable resource, but it should be kept in mind that they will all need some manipulation to work properly in SH4. In fact, even Dagon's models will need a little work as of yet... the torpedo doors don't work on any of his models, and on his project 667 (I think thats the name) they even appear broken. Also, when firing a torpedo, it is released from the original point where the fleet boat would have fired it from, so it just magically appears out of the hull. These are correctable issues (though none are critical), which I firmly believe should not exist in the CWM release.

andycaccia · 05-23-08, 12:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by keltos01

made an obj file from the ohio.3ds, available for download on my filefront page. Texture will have to be that of the sub it replaces, I don't have time to make one, or you could take dagon's projekt 627 skin.

The skin of the 688I Los Angeles would be more appropriate in my opinion.

Sledgehammer427 · 05-24-08, 12:45 AM

treblesum, u bring up another good point.
but remember that about 75% of the Guppies we had (figuring we are basing this on post WW2((47-50s)) cold war) had snorkels

i have fooled around with the November submarine (627) and i have noticed this as well, the cold war dev team is not very large and we do need more people of we want to get this thing rolling!
it is mainly in the campaign files, and we have this idea about how to get a two sided campaign working. we do need modelers, and anyone who can work with textures. also, i need some help with the campaign files, convoys, enemies...etc.

PM me or captain jack if you want to help!

andycaccia · 05-24-08, 12:24 PM

http://www.3dworldclub.com/default.aspx

There are some nice free models for this mod. The only way we have to take them is to upload something... we do not have anything now. But maybe someone could send this link to the russians...maybe this would help them in making their subs. There are a lot of models, from cold war nuclear subs, kilos, surface warships, modern cargos, supertankers etc..

W4lt3r · 05-26-08, 08:06 AM

Just tried to play these subs but strangely my American campaing doesn't work at all.. I've been playing a lot with German campaing with no problems but i get CDT Everytime now that i try to get into American campaing, modded or unmodded. still CDT..

Any idea? Should i try to use the Multi SH4 software?

*Edit* Nvm, it was just a screw up in my UPC files. all good now
But seemingly i cant get the 688i to work, it doesn't show up on my american chooseable subs list, i tried to edit the UPC files as instructed but it only made me to result in CTDs.

denis_469 · 05-26-08, 08:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by andycaccia

http://www.3dworldclub.com/default.aspx

There are some nice free models for this mod. The only way we have to take them is to upload something... we do not have anything now. But maybe someone could send this link to the russians...maybe this would help them in making their subs. There are a lot of models, from cold war nuclear subs, kilos, surface warships, modern cargos, supertankers etc..

Thank for link

andycaccia · 05-26-08, 09:09 AM

Strange, I used the 688 whithout problems. Did you mod something of the 688?

W4lt3r · 05-26-08, 11:28 AM

Oh wait i got it working, i had on the F1661i, instead the (F1) i had FX wich caused the CTD, got it working now. (in the Flotillas.upc)

Can someone else upload the November to filefront or megaupload because i cant finish the DL from that russian site. it jams at around 1.8 mb and doesn't continue.

*Edit* Just did my first patrol on the ship, and submerged to 140 meters, all good. But when i encountered my first japanese escorted small convoy (2 DDs and a Cargo ship), i launched 3 torpedoes, 2 missed on the cargo ship and 1 hit on the DD. After that i submerged to 120 meters and suddenly started to take hull damage.. eventually died when couldn't get to surface fast enough.

And i checked from wikipedia that a Los Angeles class could operate up to 200 meters at least.. Where i can check the values of the sub's maximum crush depth, since i find there is a bug here. i checked it's .sim files and didn't find anything.

Fincuan · 05-26-08, 01:10 PM

double post

Fincuan · 05-26-08, 01:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by W4lt3r

i checked it's .sim files and didn't find anything.

It's in the .zon. IIRC 1.4*crush depth = value in .zon

W4lt3r · 05-26-08, 01:18 PM

Cheers, couldn't find it meself and got it properly adjusted now..

Now i just need a depth gauge that let's you dive deeper then 165 meters..

W4lt3r · 05-26-08, 02:52 PM

Double post but wth.

Has anyone noticed that when using the 688i submarine, you fire you'r #1 torpedo, the submarine opens portside top tube but the torpedo is launched from starboard torpedo tube? aka, coming through the submarine.

Or is it only me experiencing this, because it sorta kills the mood to have torpedoes being launched from through you'r ship hull

Sledgehammer427 · 05-26-08, 03:44 PM

W4lt3r (nice 1337 name)
i have done my little homework, and i got the November and the 688i into the campaign files, its easy but hard, but next time im here ill put those files into my filefront so you can upload them
i will check out that link up there, and see what i can do about uploading something

later

edit- also i have seen the torpedo-thru-the-hull phenomena, its brutally tragic
--the submarines built by the russians have the fleet boat magic bits in there, as in, the radars (concealed by the hull)the torpedo tubes (also concealed, butthey are in their orig places inseated of being fitted flush with the actual new tubes)
there is much to be done, and once again we need all the help we can get!

Terror_666 · 05-27-08, 01:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by treblesum81

Quote:

I do have one small concern, though... How do we get infinite O2 on nuclear boats without cheating and without using a snorkle command?

To the best of my knowledge, the easiest way would be to increase the O2 capacity of the sub to some huge number, maybe 30x-60x that of our 24 hour WWII base subs. The other option, if its possible, would be to significantly reduce the crews air usage... simulating the constant "scrubbing" of the same air. In either case, Nukes don't really have an "infinite" O2 supply , per se. Instead they use a combination of high efficiency CO2 scrubbers (something like 2x as efficient as those used on spacecraft at the moment, IIRC) and the occasional snorkel air venting to refresh the supply. It is true that the sub does not need to resupply its O2 for quite some time, but due to the limitations of the scrubbers (its a technology that gives diminishing returns over time) and the concern for the health and well being of the crew (stale, month old air is just not that great of an experience), subs routinely vent their atmospere every chance they get...

Also, nukes don't have infinite fuel either. Yes, a nuke could stay at sea for an extremely long time if its only concern was how long its fuel rods would last... I would say a good 4-6 months... due to the fact that most of a sub's endurance limitations are owed to crew requirements (food, sanity) and not to mechanical requirements. But that being said, the fuel rods do become spent after a time and need to be replaced. Because of this, I think maybe we shouldn't shoot for "infinite fuel", but rather try to tweak the engines into "ultra efficiency". This would be achieved by reducing the fuel intake of the engines to the point where 80 days at flank speed would reduce the fuel quantity to, say, 50%. In this way we wouldn't be facing some of the wierd side effects of trying to manipulate physics.

I have a few isseus with whats being said here.
first: nuke subs do not need to refeul (swap out fuelrods) because by the time the fuelrods have decayed a sub will have served past its 25 year sevicelife.
second: modern subs can create there own air and have actually been doing so for quiet some time. this is was needed because subs would loiter under the polar ice for months at a time. if they broke through the ice to snorkel they could be detected by satelite.

W4lt3r · 05-27-08, 04:06 AM

(OT, regarding my name, it's a number coded version of my relevant english name, W4lt3r = Walter = Valtteri, and i've been using the same nick for over 11 years so why should i change it?)

I finally got the November DLed aswell and i uploaded BOTH Los Angeles And November to Megaupload so no more download problems maties.

November: http://www.megaupload.com/?d=X4E6UMXK

Los Angeles: http://www.megaupload.com/fi/?d=8K14DQT4

*edit* Uploaded L A now. There you go maties that have trouble to DL from Russia.

View Poll Results: What time period would you like the Cold War Mod to encompass?
Early Cold War: 1947 to the early 1960s	148	14.20%
Mid Cold War: 1960s to 1980s	195	18.71%
Late Cold War: 1980's to 1991	147	14.11%
I want the whole thing! 1947 to 1991	552	52.98%
Voters: 1042. You may not vote on this poll

05-24-08, 12:45 AM	#303
Sledgehammer427 PacWagon Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Drinking coffee and staring at trees in Massachusetts Posts: 2,901 Downloads: 280 Uploads: 0	treblesum, u bring up another good point. but remember that about 75% of the Guppies we had (figuring we are basing this on post WW2((47-50s)) cold war) had snorkels i have fooled around with the November submarine (627) and i have noticed this as well, the cold war dev team is not very large and we do need more people of we want to get this thing rolling! it is mainly in the campaign files, and we have this idea about how to get a two sided campaign working. we do need modelers, and anyone who can work with textures. also, i need some help with the campaign files, convoys, enemies...etc. PM me or captain jack if you want to help! __________________ Cold Waters Voice Crew - Fire Control Officer Cmdr O. Myers - C/O USS Nautilus (SS-168) 114,000 tons sunk - 4 Spec Ops completed V-boat Nutcase - Need supplies? Japanese garrison on a small island in the way? Just give us a call! D4C!

05-24-08, 12:24 PM	#304
andycaccia XO Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Italy Posts: 418 Downloads: 261 Uploads: 2	http://www.3dworldclub.com/default.aspx There are some nice free models for this mod. The only way we have to take them is to upload something... we do not have anything now. But maybe someone could send this link to the russians...maybe this would help them in making their subs. There are a lot of models, from cold war nuclear subs, kilos, surface warships, modern cargos, supertankers etc.. __________________ "Memento Audere Semper"

05-26-08, 08:06 AM	#305
W4lt3r Ensign Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 222 Downloads: 43 Uploads: 0	Just tried to play these subs but strangely my American campaing doesn't work at all.. I've been playing a lot with German campaing with no problems but i get CDT Everytime now that i try to get into American campaing, modded or unmodded. still CDT.. Any idea? Should i try to use the Multi SH4 software? Edit Nvm, it was just a screw up in my UPC files. all good now But seemingly i cant get the 688i to work, it doesn't show up on my american chooseable subs list, i tried to edit the UPC files as instructed but it only made me to result in CTDs. Last edited by W4lt3r; 05-26-08 at 08:17 AM.

05-26-08, 09:09 AM	#307
andycaccia XO Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Italy Posts: 418 Downloads: 261 Uploads: 2	Strange, I used the 688 whithout problems. Did you mod something of the 688? __________________ "Memento Audere Semper"

05-26-08, 11:28 AM	#308
W4lt3r Ensign Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 222 Downloads: 43 Uploads: 0	Oh wait i got it working, i had on the F1661i, instead the (F1) i had FX wich caused the CTD, got it working now. (in the Flotillas.upc) Can someone else upload the November to filefront or megaupload because i cant finish the DL from that russian site. it jams at around 1.8 mb and doesn't continue. Edit Just did my first patrol on the ship, and submerged to 140 meters, all good. But when i encountered my first japanese escorted small convoy (2 DDs and a Cargo ship), i launched 3 torpedoes, 2 missed on the cargo ship and 1 hit on the DD. After that i submerged to 120 meters and suddenly started to take hull damage.. eventually died when couldn't get to surface fast enough. And i checked from wikipedia that a Los Angeles class could operate up to 200 meters at least.. Where i can check the values of the sub's maximum crush depth, since i find there is a bug here. i checked it's .sim files and didn't find anything. Last edited by W4lt3r; 05-26-08 at 12:25 PM.

05-26-08, 01:10 PM	#309
Fincuan Admiral Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Suomi, sauna, puukko, perkele Posts: 2,346 Downloads: 39 Uploads: 0	double post

05-26-08, 01:18 PM	#311
W4lt3r Ensign Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 222 Downloads: 43 Uploads: 0	Cheers, couldn't find it meself and got it properly adjusted now.. Now i just need a depth gauge that let's you dive deeper then 165 meters..

05-26-08, 02:52 PM	#312
W4lt3r Ensign Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 222 Downloads: 43 Uploads: 0	Double post but wth. Has anyone noticed that when using the 688i submarine, you fire you'r #1 torpedo, the submarine opens portside top tube but the torpedo is launched from starboard torpedo tube? aka, coming through the submarine. Or is it only me experiencing this, because it sorta kills the mood to have torpedoes being launched from through you'r ship hull

05-26-08, 03:44 PM	#313
Sledgehammer427 PacWagon Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Drinking coffee and staring at trees in Massachusetts Posts: 2,901 Downloads: 280 Uploads: 0	W4lt3r (nice 1337 name) i have done my little homework, and i got the November and the 688i into the campaign files, its easy but hard, but next time im here ill put those files into my filefront so you can upload them i will check out that link up there, and see what i can do about uploading something later edit- also i have seen the torpedo-thru-the-hull phenomena, its brutally tragic --the submarines built by the russians have the fleet boat magic bits in there, as in, the radars (concealed by the hull)the torpedo tubes (also concealed, butthey are in their orig places inseated of being fitted flush with the actual new tubes) there is much to be done, and once again we need all the help we can get! __________________ Cold Waters Voice Crew - Fire Control Officer Cmdr O. Myers - C/O USS Nautilus (SS-168) 114,000 tons sunk - 4 Spec Ops completed V-boat Nutcase - Need supplies? Japanese garrison on a small island in the way? Just give us a call! D4C! Last edited by Sledgehammer427; 05-27-08 at 01:47 AM.

05-27-08, 04:06 AM	#315
W4lt3r Ensign Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 222 Downloads: 43 Uploads: 0	(OT, regarding my name, it's a number coded version of my relevant english name, W4lt3r = Walter = Valtteri, and i've been using the same nick for over 11 years so why should i change it?) I finally got the November DLed aswell and i uploaded BOTH Los Angeles And November to Megaupload so no more download problems maties. November: http://www.megaupload.com/?d=X4E6UMXK Los Angeles: http://www.megaupload.com/fi/?d=8K14DQT4 edit Uploaded L A now. There you go maties that have trouble to DL from Russia. Last edited by W4lt3r; 05-27-08 at 04:16 AM.