Comments to 100 Years Ago Today

[mapuc]

Paratroppers was first after the WWI and if I remember correctly it was the russian who was first to use soldiers to jump from airplanes. Edit. If my memory isn't playing with me, I say it was in the middle of the 20's

That was a little detour from the thread.

Parachuting was quit new when WWI started-please correct if I'm wrong.

Seem to remember a sentence-not all pilot had parachut and those who had didn't alway survive a jump, due to bad parachute etc.

Markus

[Aktungbby]

Originally Posted by mapuc

Paratroppers was first after the WWI and if I remember correctly it was the russian who was first to use soldiers to jump from airplanes. Edit. If my memory isn't playing with me, I say it was in the middle of the 20's

That was a little detour from the thread.

Parachuting was quit new when WWI started-please correct if I'm wrong.

Seem to remember a sentence-not all pilot had parachut and those who had didn't alway survive a jump, due to bad parachute etc.

Markus

The Italians did the first true paratroop drop in 1927. Two Folgore and Nembo divisions. Although these would later fight with distinction in World War II, the divisions were never used in a parachute drop. Men drawn from the Italian parachute forces were dropped in a special forces operation in North Africa in 1943 in an attempt to destroy parked aircraft of the USAAF. Ol' Ben Franklin besides being on the world's favorite currency, also first conceived of the idea as a vertical envelopment. "Where is the prince who can afford so to cover his country with troops for its defense, so that ten thousand men descending from the clouds might not, in many places, do an infinite deal of mischief before a force could be brought together to repel them?" —Benjamin Franklin, 1784 ominously foresaw the whole thing while observing the first leaps from hot air balloons in Paris. #1 Pierre Blanchard Folgore is 'lightning'; I recollect ol' Ben messed with that too.

[Jimbuna]

Originally Posted by Aktungbby

Pégoud also was the first pilot to make a parachute jump from an airplane. He also became a popular instructor of French and other European fledgling pilots. On 31 August 1915, Pégoud was shot down by one of his prewar German students, Unteroffizier Walter Kandulski, while intercepting a German reconnaissance aircraft. He was 26 years old. The same German crew later dropped a funeral wreath above the French lines. That's why we call 'em the Knights of the Air-they kept it civil ...at times...

Indeed and in addition to the above there was an incorrect report that two weeks later Kandulski was shot down by the French pilot Roger Ronserail. In fact Kandulski survived the war.

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by Jimbuna

...incorrect report...

That question is still hotly debated in certain circles to this day.

I wasn't going to mention it, but since the spoilers are already out of the bag...

[Aktungbby]

The steamer Minnesota, the largest American cargo ship, runs aground off the shore of Iwajima, Japan, and is stranded.

The great dining saloon, which can seat 200 passengers, is at the forward end of the deck house and is furnished in mahogany. Just above the dining saloon is the library on one side and the ladies’ boudoir on the other. While on the bridge deck is the smoking room, furnished in leather and Flemish oak. There is also an airy nursery and children’s play rooms on the promenade deck. The number of passengers provided for is 218 first and 68 third class, while below deck accommodations are provided for 1,300 troops (one regiment) or 2,400 steerage passengers. A unique feature is the opium den astern for the use of Orientals. 66 American officers over-saw 216 Chinese crew members who worked for wages far less than Americans.” how PC is that BBY!
The ship was built for J.J. Hill, the Great Northern Railroad magnate, to become part of the Great Northern Steamship Company. His intention was that it would serve as competition with the Japanese as part of his dream to carry passengers but mainly import the highly prized commodity of Asian silk. It was an economic money-grabbing risk that ended in a boondoggle for Hill She was also used in 1919 as troop ship and renamed SS Troy to avoid confusion with USS Minnesota, a battleship. In November 1923, although converted to oil-burning, she was sold to Germany for scrapping. SS TROY in camo paint for WWI>AKA SS Minnesota>Dining for 200 The bottom line: She never made money, and the 43 voyages of the Great Northern Steamship Company’s ships left it with a deficit of $2,887,982.19.-in early 1900's dollar$

[mapuc]

I have been following Sailor Steve's story about Hellmuth von Mücke and his men's adventure in Saudi Arabia.

Thou more I read thou more I seem to remember a war movie I saw in the eighties. I can't remember every scene from that movie, only that the one side is out of water and keep on attacking the side that have water or controlling a waterhole.

Or I'm remembering wrong.

Markus

[Aktungbby]

Sahara with Humphrey Bogart come to mind.

[MGR1]

Originally Posted by mapuc

Seem to remember a sentence-not all pilot had parachut and those who had didn't alway survive a jump, due to bad parachute etc.

Definitely the case for the German airship crews on their raids over the UK. Parachutes were left behind, thus saving weight and improving the performance of the big rigids.

Many men decided "death by impact" was better than being roasted alive when their ships were shot down in flames. I believe that Heinrich Mathy's body had to be effectively peeled out of the ground when it was recovered. He'd elected to jump when his command was shot down.

Mike.

[mapuc]

Originally Posted by MGR1

Definitely the case for the German airship crews on their raids over the UK. Parachutes were left behind, thus saving weight and improving the performance of the big rigids.

Many men decided "death by impact" was better than being roasted alive when their ships were shot down in flames. I believe that Heinrich Mathy's body had to be effectively peeled out of the ground when it was recovered. He'd elected to jump when his command was shot down.

Mike.

Thank you for the information.

Markus

[Catfish]

Regarding the german airships, parachutes were already available at the beginning of the war, but as mentioned before they were left behind voluntarily to improve performance, and bomb load.
When the "height climber" airships arrived on the scene, some did indeed carry parachutes again, however the crews often decided not to put them aboard – it was not an order though (I really do not understand why, i most probably would have ..)

Later in the war, smaller-packing parachutes became available for pilots of heavier-than-air crafts, too, at least in Germany. A lot of pilots used their chutes, and were thus able to live on after their plane was wrecked (e.g. Ernst Udet being among them).
The british high command did not trust parachutes, while of course being ungainly and hindering free movement in the already cramped cockpits and adding weight to the already underpowered planes, they assumed a pilot with a parachute would tend to abandon his expensive plane in dire situations, instead of fighting on to the end.
Contrary to popular belief, the british military was much more harsh with decisions and executions, when it came to enforce discipline within its armed forces, than their prussian (=hunnish a.s.o.) counterparts. God knows how much pilots would have been rescued without this decision, especially with regard on the "training", british pilots and observers received in this first air war.

[Aktungbby]

Originally Posted by Catfish

(=hunnish a.s.o.) counterparts. God knows how much pilots would have been rescued without this decision, especially with regard on the "training", british pilots and observers received in this first air war.

[QUOTE Dicta Boelcke # 1] Try to secure the upper hand before attacking. If possible, keep the sun behind you[/QUOTE]
Rule one of which was borrowed from Dicta Ein ....Beware a Hun in the sun!

[mapuc]

When it comes to this 100 years ago today..I try to read it all, but somehow my eyes immediately lock on story about the naval stuff.

I can't wait for this date:

31st of May 2016 and 1st of June 2016.

Markus

[Jimbuna]

Originally Posted by mapuc

When it comes to this 100 years ago today..I try to read it all, but somehow my eyes immediately lock on story about the naval stuff.

I can't wait for this date:

31st of May 2016 and 1st of June 2016.

Markus

2016?

EDIT: Belay that, I forgot to deduct the hundred years

[Aktungbby]

Clara Immerwahr, first woman to get a doctorate in chemistry in Germany, commits suicide. It is speculated that she was troubled by her husband Fritz Haber’s work on chemical weapons.

Shortly after Haber's return from Belgium, Immerwahr, who was a pacifist, and was troubled by Haber's work on chemical weapons, shot herself in the chest using Haber's military pistol. She died in her son's arms on 2 May. The morning after her death, Haber immediately left home to stage the first gas attack against the Russians on the Eastern Front. Her suicide remained largely in the dark. Six days after her death, only the small local newspaper Grunewald-Zeitung reported that "the wife of Dr. H. in Dahlem, who is currently on the front, has set an end to her life by shooting herself. The reasons for this act of the unhappy woman are unknown." Clara was appalled and on more than one occasion begged him to stop his research on chemical warfare. She opposed him openly and he accused her in public of treasonous statements. When Clara received her Ph.D., she took an oath to “never in speech or writing to teach anything that is contrary to my beliefs. To pursue truth and to advance the dignity of science to the heights which it deserves.” She believed that Fritz had perverted the ideals of science. There was no evidence of an autopsy. The almost undocumented nature of her death has led to much controversy as to her motives.
Fritz Haber eventually fled the Nazis in Germany and died in Basel, Switzerland in 1934. His and Clara's ashes were buried together in a cemetery in Basel. Subsequently, their son Hermann Haber emigrated to the United States, where he committed suicide in 1946. Ludwig ("Lutz") Fritz Haber (1921–2004), the son of Fritz Haber and his second wife, Charlotte, published a book on the history of poison gas, The Poisonous Cloud (1986)http://saintssistersandsluts.com/the-tragic-life-of-clara-immerwahr/ < In 1918, Haber would be awarded the Nobel Prize in chemistry for his (and her plagiarized research) work in developing a method of synthesizing ammonia from nitrogen in the air—the process that enabled the production of fertilizer in quantities that revolutionized agriculture worldwide. It sustains the food base for the equivalent of half the world’s population today. But in the winter of 1915, Haber’s thoughts turned to annihilating the Allies. For his efforts directing a team of scientists on the front lines in World War I, he would become known as the father of chemical warfare. Haber, unlike his friend Albert Einstein, was a German patriot, and he willingly became a uniformed consultant to the German War Office. A Jew, he and Clara had converted to Christianity to even permit this. During World War I, he began drawing on experiments he’d done on using chlorine gasses as a weapon. Finding an effective delivery system was challenging—one test resulted in the deaths of several German troops. But by 1915, defeats on the front lines hardened Haber’s resolve to use gas weapons, despite Hague Convention agreements prohibiting chemical agents in battle.
Haber had a difficult time finding any German army commanders who would agree even to a test in the field. One general called the use of poison gas “unchivalrous”; another declared that poisoning the enemy “just as one poisons rats” was “repulsive.” But if it meant victory, that general was willing to “do what must be done.” Haber, according to biographer Margit Szollosi-Janze, “said if you want to win the war, then please, wage chemical warfare with conviction.” Haber placed his laboratory at the service of the German government, and by April of 1915, he was on the front lines in Ypres, in uniform, smoking cigars and calculating the timing of what he hoped would be a lethal gas attack. Thousands of steel cylinders containing chlorine gas had been transported to German positions. There would be no launching or dropping of the gas on Allied troops; instead, Haber calculated, the best delivery system was the prevailing winds in Belgium. After weeks of waiting for ideal winds—strong enough to carry the gas away from the German troops, but not so strong they would dissipate the gas weapons before they could take effect against the enemy—the Germans released more than 168 tons of chlorine gas from nearly 6,000 canisters at sunrise on April 22...A nighttime 1915 barrage at Ypres> "The cloud settled over some 10,000 troops. More than half were believed to have died by asphyxiation within minutes.
Lance Sergeant Elmer Cotton, a Canadian soldier who was gassed at Ypres and survived, described the attack as “an equivalent death to drowning only on dry land. The effects are there—a splitting headache and terrific thirst (to drink water is instant death), a knife edge of pain in the lungs and the coughing up of a greenish froth off the stomach and the lungs, ending finally in insensibility and death. It is a fiendish death to die." Since the 1970s, Clara’s life has received more attention. She is seen as an example of protest against the misuse of science. The most prestigious award given by the German section of the International Physicians for the Prevention of Nuclear War is called the Clara Immerwahr Award; the University of Dortmund has a mentoring project for women named for her; and Clara is the subject of Tony Harrison’s play Square Rounds. It may have taken a little time, but she hasn’t been forgotten." [wiki]

[mapuc]

Have been reading Sailor Steves latest contribution to 100 years ago today

I find it very interesting to read about the German subs, it's interesting to see the different in tonnage they got.

Walther Schwieger in U-20 has a total of 6 ships and 20,646 tons.

Johannes Spieß, in U-9 has a total of 9 ships and 1,754 tons.

Walter Forstmann in U-39 has a total of 7 ships and 2,175 tons.

maybe a wrong question, why this huge differences ?

Markus