Nvidia tweaks to SH3/SH4

[Rubini]

Originally Posted by tennozan

Thanks for the nHancer guide and tips. My view looks like a movie / photo-realistic now. Running a GTX 8800 ultra OC w. Nvidia latest drivers. Again, thanks.

[Rockin Robbins]

It sure flys in the face of my experience and all the posts I've read and screenprints I've seen here over the past seven months, but I'd love to be wrong. Downloading nHancer now!

Then I have to wait until tonight at home to try it out. I'll post some screenies to show real evidence of whatever is happening here. any guidelines on what to look for so I can develop the best evidence? This will be fun either way!

[DavyJonesFootlocker]

NVidia rocks! The jaggie problem may be my own fault in not doing something right. No one talked about the lack of Shader power in ATI Cards. They always seemed to lag behind NVidia in this regard.

[Doolittle81]

Rubini:

Thanks a lot! I'd "lost" my halo/flair at some point and I couldn't figure out why. Turns out I had WAY too much AA. I was running at Supersampling 16XS. Knocking it down to your suggested Multisampling at 4X returned the halo and flair...and at first glance I don't see any noticeable lessening in other visual aspects... Somehow this seems odd to me as I had thought "max'ing" out settings (such as AA)with my GTX8800 would prove the best results. Very Odd indeed.

[elite_hunter_sh3]

question: anyone know any good ATI video card tweaks???
i have a x1900xt

[Rubini]

Originally Posted by Doolittle81

Rubini:

Thanks a lot! I'd "lost" my halo/flair at some point and I couldn't figure out why. Turns out I had WAY too much AA. I was running at Supersampling 16XS. Knocking it down to your suggested Multisampling at 4X returned the halo and flair...and at first glance I don't see any noticeable lessening in other visual aspects... Somehow this seems odd to me as I had thought "max'ing" out settings (such as AA)with my GTX8800 would prove the best results. Very Odd indeed.

This is my feelings too. A so powerful card that don't allow me to use the best settings because it's bugged on the drivers...and the worst is that it is an old unfixed issue. Luckily the 4xMSAA is at least acceptable, but not in the same quality level of the SSAA (yet have some shimmering).

I in truth didn't played Sh4 yet (just installed it almost an year ago and just made a first glance). But after read some threads on SH4 forum I noticed that the ATI cards also have sun halo absence (this is true for nvidia in Sh3!!!). LOL!

So, sorry to just said that only Nvidia is the "culprit".

Anyhow, again, the main two directions of this tweak are these:
1. No more than 4xMSAA or gamma correction to preserve sun halo and dense smoke (true for sh3 at least) -Can someone confirm this too for Sh4?
2. Use nHancer to unlock that hidden compatibility seeting 20000000: EA Strategy GAmes to have AA on the entire scene. (again at least true for SH3 and some others sims) Again, can someone confirm this for SH4?

[Rubini]

Originally Posted by Rockin Robbins

It sure flys in the face of my experience and all the posts I've read and screenprints I've seen here over the past seven months, but I'd love to be wrong. Downloading nHancer now!

Then I have to wait until tonight at home to try it out. I'll post some screenies to show real evidence of whatever is happening here. any guidelines on what to look for so I can develop the best evidence? This will be fun either way!

Hi mate,

Yes, you are right in truth. After read some posts here in SH4 forums I saw that ATI cards really have sun halo absence too, but only in SH4 (see my last post above).

Sorry!

[Seadogs]

Rubini, great concise write up. I was fighting with the drivers and wondering what was up with the loss of halo with gammma correction AA. I was also unaware that over 4xAA would loose it as well. Thanks man.

Now if I can figure out why my old version of nhancer will not uninstall properly I will be set.

[ustahl]

quote
"The problems:
- nVidia hardware is really good but the image quality "out of box" really don´t mach the one of the ATI cards. The main motive is that nVidia uses another type of AntiAliasing (MultiSampling - more FPS, worse AA result, more shimmering texture in general) that isn't so good as the one of the Ati cards (SuperSampling). IMHO, this is really a cheat that nVidia uses to show more FPS on the bench sites..."
unquote

Not to offend anybody, but I'm puzzled why it is implied that nVidia does not perform at AA Supersampling.
I have never had any problems with nVidia drivers (at present 169.21 WHQL) and AA Supersampling and good FPS. For my overclocked EVGA 8800GTS 640MB on a 22" wide screen at 1680 x 1050 I use following settings in the nVidia Control Panel:

"Manage 3D settings" > Global Settings (or game specific Program Settings):
Anisotropic filtering: 8x
Antialiasing - Gamma correction: On
Antialiasing - Mode: Override any application setting
Antialiasing - Setting: 16xQ
Antialiasing - Transparency: Supersampling
Conformant texture clamp: Use hardware
Error reporting: Off
Extension limit: Off
Force mipmaps: None
Multi-display/mixed_GPU acceleration: Single display performance mode
Stereo - Display mode: Use vertical interlace monitor
Texture filtering - Anisotropic sample optimization: Off (greyed out)
Texture filtering - Negative LOD bias: Clamp
Texture filtering - Quality: High quality
Texture filtering - Trilinear optimization: Off (greyed out)
Threaded optimization: Auto
Triple buffering: On
Vertical sync: Force on

Although some time ago I took a look at nHanser, I decided I don't need it, as the above settings in the nVidia Control Panel provide what I want. Image quality is superb, textures crisp, beautiful sun halo, all photorealistic. As a previous ATI user I know abt image quality.

In order to totally eliminate/prevent any jaggies in SH4 it is important (for me at least) to use "Antialiasing - Mode: Override any application setting". Any other alternative settings than "override" give me jaggies.

I use the Battle off Samar Single Mission to test graphic settings due to the very fierce action with simultaneous explosions etc., and my frames range between 20 and 60 fps (60 fps max. LCD native) with all maxed out in the game itself.

These details are just to share my experience that correctly chosen driver settings in the Control Panel is all I need for optimal visuals. Additionally I use Riva Tuner 2.06 for OC only.

[Rubini]

Originally Posted by ustahl

quote
"The problems:
- nVidia hardware is really good but the image quality "out of box" really don´t mach the one of the ATI cards. The main motive is that nVidia uses another type of AntiAliasing (MultiSampling - more FPS, worse AA result, more shimmering texture in general) that isn't so good as the one of the Ati cards (SuperSampling). IMHO, this is really a cheat that nVidia uses to show more FPS on the bench sites..."
unquote

Not to offend anybody, but I'm puzzled why it is implied that nVidia does not perform at AA Supersampling.
I have never had any problems with nVidia drivers (at present 169.21 WHQL) and AA Supersampling and good FPS. For my overclocked EVGA 8800GTS 640MB on a 22" wide screen at 1680 x 1050 I use following settings in the nVidia Control Panel:

"Manage 3D settings" > Global Settings (or game specific Program Settings):
Anisotropic filtering: 8x
Antialiasing - Gamma correction: On
Antialiasing - Mode: Override any application setting
Antialiasing - Setting: 16xQ
Antialiasing - Transparency: Supersampling
Conformant texture clamp: Use hardware
Error reporting: Off
Extension limit: Off
Force mipmaps: None
Multi-display/mixed_GPU acceleration: Single display performance mode
Stereo - Display mode: Use vertical interlace monitor
Texture filtering - Anisotropic sample optimization: Off (greyed out)
Texture filtering - Negative LOD bias: Clamp
Texture filtering - Quality: High quality
Texture filtering - Trilinear optimization: Off (greyed out)
Threaded optimization: Auto
Triple buffering: On
Vertical sync: Force on

Although some time ago I took a look at nHanser, I decided I don't need it, as the above settings in the nVidia Control Panel provide what I want. Image quality is superb, textures crisp, beautiful sun halo, all photorealistic. As a previous ATI user I know abt image quality.

In order to totally eliminate/prevent any jaggies in SH4 it is important (for me at least) to use "Antialiasing - Mode: Override any application setting". Any other alternative settings than "override" give me jaggies.

I use the Battle off Samar Single Mission to test graphic settings due to the very fierce action with simultaneous explosions etc., and my frames range between 20 and 60 fps (60 fps max. LCD native) with all maxed out in the game itself.

These details are just to share my experience that correctly chosen driver settings in the Control Panel is all I need for optimal visuals. Additionally I use Riva Tuner 2.06 for OC only.

Hi mate,
Thanks to share your experience.
Note that 16xQ isn´t a SSAA, but a new multisample AA by nVidia called Coverage Sample AA, what isn´t yet like the SSAA (speaking in image quality). Also note that the Supersampling in your configuration above is just for transparency.

Even the MSAA 4x is good but if you look in more detailed way you yet will see some shimmering texture here and there. Only SSAA really get rid of all shimmering textures. I don´t have so much experience in SH4 tweaks (I´m yet in truth a SH3 player...for a while), so, at least for SH3 if you use a nvidia card with more than 4xMSAA the sun halo go away.:hmm:

[ustahl]

Hi Rubini, and thanks for your prompt response.
From my SH3 days I know of your modding skills and thus realize that your technical knowledge is superior.
I have been blinded by the stunning visuals in SH4 that my above mentioned settings have given me so far, but your additional info tantalizes me to experiment some more with alternative settings. I just didn't think it possible there might be even better yet visuals in store for me with other ("lesser") settings.
Just like somebody else further above mentioned, I too thought that the highest possible/feasible settings would automatically give the best results. Now you made me think again, mate. For instance I did not know abt that 16xQ stuff you mentioned. I'm curious however, what I might lose in terms of transparency, if I go from SSAA to MSAA.:hmm:

As a sidenote, I haven't been playing SH3 (with GWX + several more mods) for some time, because the geometry is distorted on my 22" widescreen. With my earlier 21" CRT I virtually lived inside SH3. GWX 2 being out, is a hint for a fix in this context permitted in this SH4 thread?

[Rubini]

Originally Posted by ustahl

Hi Rubini, and thanks for your prompt response.
From my SH3 days I know of your modding skills and thus realize that your technical knowledge is superior.
I have been blinded by the stunning visuals in SH4 that my above mentioned settings have given me so far, but your additional info tantalizes me to experiment some more with alternative settings. I just didn't think it possible there might be even better yet visuals in store for me with other ("lesser") settings.
Just like somebody else further above mentioned, I too thought that the highest possible/feasible settings would automatically give the best results. Now you made me think again, mate. For instance I did not know abt that 16xQ stuff you mentioned. I'm curious however, what I might lose in terms of transparency, if I go from SSAA to MSAA.:hmm:

As a sidenote, I haven't been playing SH3 (with GWX + several more mods) for some time, because the geometry is distorted on my 22" widescreen. With my earlier 21" CRT I virtually lived inside SH3. GWX 2 being out, is a hint for a fix in this context permitted in this SH4 thread?

Well, at least i openned the exact same thread on Sh3 general forum too...take a look there for the same Sh3 issue.

I also have now a 26" wide LCD monitor. I´m yet able to play Sh3 in 4:3 even using this new monitor...at day light the image is soberb but...what is pissing me of is that the nights in LCD monitor are too dark and (if you just put more bright) the sea texture just isn´t good at night. I´m in the point that I will try to really make another ENV files (for night only) just to have better textures on a LCD pannel. Do you also have this "at night" colors/degrade problems/poor image on your LCD?:hmm:

Just a botton note: we in the GWX team already tried to port SH3 to a wide view (messing with the cameras FOV) but without success.

[Elder-Pirate]

Guess I don't much understand all that goes on here but here is some results of my Model T type computer.
I run an old Asus A7N8X Deluxe REV 2.0 MB, AMD Athlon XP 3200+ CPU, three 1 GB sticks of RAM ( 184-pin DIMM 128MX64 DDR PC3200 Unbuffered ) by "Crucial Tech", Seagate Baracuda 120 GB 8MB Cache Serial ATA HD, Creative Sound Blaster Audigy 2 ZS 7.1 speaker system, WIN XP Home w/SP2, 550 watt power supply and a good ole Nvidia 7800 GS OC 256mb AGP 8X video card.

My AA is set at 4X, rest is application controled.



Results of the 84.21 ( recomended by BFG nvidia mfg. ) drivers are not to bad a sunset IMHO.



So why all the fuss about big bad video cards and top notch Nvidia drivers?

[Rubini]

Originally Posted by Elder-Pirate

Guess I don't much understand all that goes on here but here is some results of my Model T type computer.
I run an old Asus A7N8X Deluxe REV 2.0 MB, AMD Athlon XP 3200+ CPU, three 1 GB sticks of RAM ( 184-pin DIMM 128MX64 DDR PC3200 Unbuffered ) by "Crucial Tech", Seagate Baracuda 120 GB 8MB Cache Serial ATA HD, Creative Sound Blaster Audigy 2 ZS 7.1 speaker system, WIN XP Home w/SP2, 550 watt power supply and a good ole Nvidia 7800 GS OC 256mb AGP 8X video card.

My AA is set at 4X, rest is application controled.



Results of the 84.21 ( recomended by BFG nvidia mfg. ) drivers are not to bad a sunset IMHO.



So why all the fuss about big bad video cards and top notch Nvidia drivers?

LOL
Thanks for the reply.
The problem is that some guys didn´t know about the max 4x AA for nvidia to avoid sun halo problems (again: at least on Sh3). BTW, i noticed that in your pic above you are missing some good image quality...yours wires lines are broken..this could be "fix" by using transparency SSAA for example. So this is just a crusade for the more perfect image that IMHO is one of the best things that these expensive cards have to offer for us, gamers.

[Doolittle81]

I hope this thread keeps going so that folks can share their 'discoveries' of best settings for cards...