Realism- and gameplay-related hardcode fixes for SH3.EXE

[Fubar2Niner]

@h.sie

Take all the time you need mate, just appreciate you making the time to help

Best regards.

Fubar2Niner

[dcb]

Hi h.sie,

I tried to use both the Torpedo Failure Mod and Engine Damage Mod ontop of the V16A3 fix, and I have an error. If I load either of them via JSGME after V16A3, the game runs fine, but if I load them both after V16A3, I get an error box with the following message:

incompatible sh3.exe version found
hsie2.act not started
patches not applied

Once again, thank you for your fixes.

dcb

[h.sie]

@Fubar: You should not post account data in a public forum. I have the data, thus you can delete the password from the post.

@dcb: Will look into it this evening,.

[Fubar2Niner]

Originally Posted by h.sie

@Fubar: You should not post account data in a public forum. I have the data, thus you can delete the password from the post.

@h.sie

Appreciate the warning mate, however this acct has been created for you and this one use only. If you'd like a perm acct just nod and I'll pm the info.

Best regards.

Fubar2Niner

[h.sie]

@Fubar: Supplement Mod created, tested and uploaded. All worked well for me. Tested messages and presence of AI-Subs.

If you still have trouble, try without Sh3Cmdr. Maybe your Sh3Cmdr-Installation is corrupted?

[h.sie]

@dcb: It seems you used the old TorpedoFailures V1.0c Fix. This is replaced by V1.1 in the meantime, which does not cause these conflicts.

[dcb]

Originally Posted by h.sie

@dcb: It seems you used the old TorpedoFailures V1.0c Fix. This is replaced by V1.1 in the meantime, which does not cause these conflicts.

Thank you for your answer. Will move to Torp Fix V1.1

[Leitender]

Hi h.sie

With this Fix you risk random diesel damages if you agonize your diesels with FLANK or FULL speed for longer time periods.

May i ask you, if you have any historical information about such an effect? i never read about engine damage - because of long duration flank speed - and i know from a former panzermotor developer, that they tested every engine (and there were produced 250.000 engines during the war) for 48 hours at full power, before getting its ready for action status. And thus, to be honest, I don´t believe either that serious damage occured during flank speed. The engines had their safety factor, as well as the pressure hulls had their, and the engines were produced under reliability aspects, not under economic aspects, unlike a today´s Mercedes.

Surely, I read about engine damage. But the reason probably was a so-called water shock ("Wasserschlag"), when sea water attained to the combustion chamber resulting in a destroyed piston rod. This occured when the diesel engines were stopped too late after the boat submerged.

[h.sie]

@Leitender: I'm glad that someone posts some (positive intended) critical words to start a discussion.

Short answer: To be honest - No I have not, since normally I'm too lazy for historical research and thus rely on the historical knowledge of a well-assorted group of people. I nevertheless programmed this mod, because:

a) It is modelled in Sh2, and thus it seems to be not beside the point.

b) It was requested from 2 or 3 members from which I know they like historical accuracy (so I relied on their point of view).

c) I like this mod because I cannot believe that one can run both diesels at flank speed for hours without risking any problems.

One thing I definitely know: The higher the engines power, the higher the risk of a damage. The question is about quantities, that means: whether this risk is significant and relevant for gameplay.

Anyone is welcome to post some historical information that could help to adjust to quantities (damage probabilities).

The intention of this mod is not to model the damages. The intention is to let the Kaleun be careful with his engines.

[h.sie]

@Leitender: As you can see, the DieselDamages Fix comes with an .ini file that allows fine-adjusting the damage probabilities. This shows that this mod isn't finished (Alpha version) and perhaps needs some adjustment

[Leitender]

h.sie

you know that my posts are constructive meant and it is not my intention to criticise your work. To answer your points:

a) phew, too long ago to remember. I remember that for SH3 at least one "realistic" former kaleun (Oesten, Hardegen?) was asked for his advice. Maybe due to him, long duration diesel damage was removed?

b) maybe these members may share their point of view?

c) of course you can run your diesels for hours and hours at flank. This was often done at least at early war by the kaleuns, when they overhauled a convoy out of sight to attack in a ahead position. If an engine is proved to be "fatigue endurable" (correct term? Searched in leo.org for it) you can run it with full power as long as you want. In this case, the limiting factor is - fuel.

Nor there is a damage dependancy at which power you run. The only limiting factor is rpm because of the mass inertia, so overrevving an engine causes damage to it. But every machinist knows that limit, either by manufacturer´s order, or by - experience. Nowaday´s engines have an automatic rev limiter, but I don´t know if the u-boat engines had one. IIRC the panzermotors had none.

Maybe there is another limiting factor: heat. I´m not sure if the cooling system was sufficient when the engines run very long at full power. But never read about such problems.

The intention of this mod is not to model the damages. The intention is to let the Kaleun be careful with his engines.

But if i understand your mod correct, flank speed will cause damage within 2 hours at a 50% probability? This would prevent the above mentioned real tactics, wouldn´t it?

[Hitman]

It's true that engines in Panzers and UBoats were very different to a commercial automobile engine, first of all because it wasn't Aunt Mary who was driving them to go shopping, but a trained machinist -and in the case of uboats, supervised by an engineer.

So yes, they were durable items and well tested for extreme stress (And a frequently forgotten things is very telling: They used huge amounts of lubricating oil, which happens mainly in engines with large tolerances, designed for extreme stress), but at the same time and unlike engines for unexperienced users, they were very "open" in the way you could use them, meaning the machinist could adjust a huge amount of things and always squeeze a bit more depending on what he deemed safe. When your life depends on what you can extract from your engines, and you have qualified personal using them, it's only natural to do so.

Hence, it is my firm belief that you could actually damage an UBoat engine if you really were to use it beyond the limits of what is the maximal load attainable - and of course your machinist knows how to achieve that. Not necessarily catastrophic damage, but you could offset valves, camshaft and crankshaft, and also probably rods, causing vibrations that could end up in huge disaster.

We can discuss however if that "overload" corresponds to the current "Flank speed" in SH3, or if the factory specified "Flank Speed" was still safe and simply resulted in an unechonomic waste of fuel for 2 aditional knots, but since we have no other button to asign that overload-over-flank-speed, I guess this is the most practical solution.

[Sepp von Ch.]

This Diesel Damages V0.9 for V16A3 mod overwrite de_menu.txt (Supplement to V16A3). Is this ok, I can ovewrite this de_menu.txt file?

[h.sie]

@Joseph: This mod is alpha and thus for testing and developing purposes only - not for playing. For testing, you can overwrite the menu file, but not for playing

[Jaeger]

one solution would be to generate a new state of speed after flank: overheat machine. flank would be possible for endless hours, but "overheat machine", which gives one or two extraknots, will risk to brake the machine. perhaps a switch can be added in the navigators menu "activate overheating (+2 knots"). this button could be combined with the rank of the navigator: it could only be available, when navigator has reached "leutnant" f.ex.

possible?

Greetz, Jaeger