[WIP] Cold War Mod - Page 19

tomagabriel · 05-07-08, 06:35 AM

Capt. Jack SIR! The interest in this mod is high SIR! People here are eager!

XPETIT · 05-07-08, 02:20 PM

For me, I prefer the last submarine.

I found that Triomphant, Ohio or 949A are very beautifull. Espacially, I love the submarine with the winglets (or tails) on the cowning, like The redoutable or Triomphant. It's typicall of the modern sub........See those giant just under the sea is marvellous.

Sledgehammer427 · 05-07-08, 04:56 PM

w3lcome to subsim!!!

and i have to agree with you, they are amazing, giants of the deep. and one sword sharper than the pen!

(had to add that for dramatic effect)

treblesum81 · 05-08-08, 10:16 PM

I'm a little confused here, are there plans to use Dagon's subs? or are they off limits for some reason?

Also, I want to point out that a lot of newer stuff is available (assuming we can use those subs) and a lot of the older stuff can be modded up from what we already have available, so it seems that one of the hardest parts is out of the way aleady if this mod were to cover the 40 year span of the war...

Then again, I'm no professional modder, so I'm not all that sure that some of the newer technologies could be made to work within the framework of SH4 (Missiles, TMA, etc..), but I was able to glean (using what little Russian I know) from the Russian forum where Dagon's boats are posted that items such as missiles are doable, if difficult, in SH4.

I would think, aside from that, that the hardest part of creating this mod would be scripting 40 years worth of sub activities into the game, and over and above that, providing the players with something more engrossing than driving their boat out to the middle of the pacific or atlantic and running through a month-long patrol...

akdavis · 05-09-08, 09:02 AM

hehe, just a little polling wisdom: never make "cake and eat it too" a choice. It will skew your results.

One argument in favor of early rather than late: remember that in addition to new submarines, you would need an almost completely new roster of surface ships for late Cold War, even all new merchants.

treblesum81 · 05-09-08, 02:05 PM

Quote:

One argument in favor of early rather than late: remember that in addition to new submarines, you would need an almost completely new roster of surface ships for late Cold War, even all new merchants.

You make a good point there... not that I'm any sort of modding authority anyway, though...

Although I'd like to point out that there are quite a few user created ai warships already available, meaning that if a few of those modders could be recruited to work on them, the new surface fleet would come together relatively quickly. I think its also important to point out that, other than the US, Russia, and a handful of other countries, a great deal of the population of the navies of the world were constantly refitted WWII ships (the last time a sub fired a torp in anger was in the Faulklands and it was at a WWII BB)... In addition, modern ships are not so visually complex as their WWII counterparts, lacking the multitude of guns and tower structures in favor of missiles and a smaller radar signature...

In any case, I think that the more modern stuff (i.e. 1960-end) will probably be the more popular, if only because of the mystique around the modern subs. Whichever way things pan out though, I think at the very least that a move needs to be made away from the older surface running boats (while later diesel boats still had to surface, they could run at speed for ~12hr) so that the mod could open up the world of strictly or at least primarily underwater ops, something that only the Type-XXI has only been able to accomplish so far.

akdavis · 05-09-08, 02:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by treblesum81

Quote:

One argument in favor of early rather than late: remember that in addition to new submarines, you would need an almost completely new roster of surface ships for late Cold War, even all new merchants.

You make a good point there... not that I'm any sort of modding authority anyway, though...

Although I'd like to point out that there are quite a few user created ai warships already available, meaning that if a few of those modders could be recruited to work on them, the new surface fleet would come together relatively quickly. I think its also important to point out that, other than the US, Russia, and a handful of other countries, a great deal of the population of the navies of the world were constantly refitted WWII ships (the last time a sub fired a torp in anger was in the Faulklands and it was at a WWII BB)... In addition, modern ships are not so visually complex as their WWII counterparts, lacking the multitude of guns and tower structures in favor of missiles and a smaller radar signature...

In any case, I think that the more modern stuff (i.e. 1960-end) will probably be the more popular, if only because of the mystique around the modern subs. Whichever way things pan out though, I think at the very least that a move needs to be made away from the older surface running boats (while later diesel boats still had to surface, they could run at speed for ~12hr) so that the mod could open up the world of strictly or at least primarily underwater ops, something that only the Type-XXI has only been able to accomplish so far.

Well, if the focus is on the Cold War between Nato and USSR, then the equipment of minor players like Argentina or Turkey will hardly figure large in the gameplay. There would be very little that could be recycled 30 years or more after the war.

treblesum81 · 05-09-08, 03:07 PM

This is true, but the point is that SH4 has provisions for "filler" vessels (non-war ships in the environment), so that just means updating those, if it was even a consideration, would really be a non-issue...

bohemian007 · 05-09-08, 09:37 PM

Does 688i can play in American career?

I have U-Boat expansion (V1.5)

Thank you.

denis_469 · 05-10-08, 12:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bohemian007

Does 688i can play in American career?

I have U-Boat expansion (V1.5)

Thank you.

U/l version nuclear subs for version 1.4 only. Versions for 1.5 and more subs WIP now.

Capt Jack Harkness · 05-10-08, 04:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by treblesum81

I'm a little confused here, are there plans to use Dagon's subs? or are they off limits for some reason?

No, they are not off limits and Dagon approves their use in this mod. If we decide to do a late cold war setting than we will probably be using a lot of his boats.

On a seperate note, I do understand how big of an undertaking the entire cold war would be, and a mod of that magnitude is very probably not possible. As for implementing all the new tech, I really don't think state of the art weapons systems are possible. For instance, the Mk 48 ADCAP torpedo can be programmed for automatic search patterns, they can be given an attack ceiling (the weapon can attack targets no shallower than X feet) and they send all their sensor data back to the weapons officer. I really don't think this level of complexity is possible for a game that really wasn't meant to have guided torpedoes (let alone missiles) in the first place.

Of course, I do have only limited experience with SH4 scripts and code, so a lot of modern systems may well be do-able; the only trouble is that I don't currently have anyone to work on scripting and figure out what is and is not possible in the engine.

In the end, however, if modern subs cannot be given their full capabilities then they will not be part of the game. As of the moment, I feel the mod should start with the beginning of the cold war and move on from there as my (future) modding team figures out how to implement more advanced tech in game.

Modern sub simmers need not despair, though, because as I have said more than once, BattleCry: Redemption will have all of the modern submarines (both diesel and nuclear) as well most all of the surface ships, including a potentially large civilian fleet. Furthermore, every major system on every ship will be fully functional, from a Los Angeles's trash disposal unit to the strategic missiles on the SSBNs.

gimpy117 · 05-10-08, 09:56 PM

I think the esaiest would be the 1945-60
we could always add more years later with newer ships....

and I think some electro boats were comissioned into the soviet navy....
and no doubt the XXII inside would be a close stand in for an early soviet boat interior....

Plus...this sub was a dirivitive of the E-boat
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whiskey_class_submarine

and this was pretty much was an IX class....i think it had some post war use
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_S_class_submarine

We may have the romeo but it is also supposed to be an electroboat dirivitive
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romeo_class_submarine

so with some model tweaking we might have some more russian boats

tomagabriel · 05-12-08, 04:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Capt Jack Harkness

.....
Modern sub simmers need not despair, though, because as I have said more than once, BattleCry: Redemption will have all of the modern submarines (both diesel and nuclear) as well most all of the surface ships, including a potentially large civilian fleet. Furthermore, every major system on every ship will be fully functional, from a Los Angeles's trash disposal unit to the strategic missiles on the SSBNs.

Well I personally voted for late era. But! I understand and agree fully with what you said about the difficulty of implementing such modern systems in something so WWII-ish. As a result I would be more than happy to know that an early cold war mod is at work regardless of my vote here. What can be done should be done. I suppose that is normal. My vote was a poit that I've made that there is interest in that part of naval history.

Now about this Rdemption since you've mentioned it. Where can I find some more info? (like single/multi/any bots/etc.?)

MadMike · 05-12-08, 04:29 PM

I've run some scenarios in SH2 using a slightly modded Type IX u-boat modded to mimic a Project 613 boat (Whiskey class submarine, also modified sdf's). Lemme tell ya, getting out of Murmansk in '45 to the North Atlantic with all the air cover and destroyer screens was a b*tch (not to mention trying to shnorkel).

If all else fails, a "Soviet Aces" mod for SH2 would be welcome!

Yours, Mike

treblesum81 · 05-12-08, 05:35 PM

I'm pretty sure the mod will pick up after all the outward hostilities have ceased, meaning you might put to sea under "enemy" (no clear statement to the fact was ever offered) observation by air or sea, but you wouldn't have to defend against them (you couldn't anyway, after the war almost all subsequent sub designs and upgrades removed the surface defence and attack capabilities).

That being said, the actual mod is going to need some sort of combat involvement, otherwise it will be year after year of empty patrolling, so Russian and US forces may need to be shifted around a bit to make the gameplay possible.

View Poll Results: What time period would you like the Cold War Mod to encompass?
Early Cold War: 1947 to the early 1960s	148	14.20%
Mid Cold War: 1960s to 1980s	195	18.71%
Late Cold War: 1980's to 1991	147	14.11%
I want the whole thing! 1947 to 1991	552	52.98%
Voters: 1042. You may not vote on this poll

05-07-08, 06:35 AM	#271
tomagabriel Machinist's Mate Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 122 Downloads: 110 Uploads: 3	Capt. Jack SIR! The interest in this mod is high SIR! People here are eager! Last edited by tomagabriel; 04-24-15 at 07:03 AM.

05-07-08, 04:56 PM	#273
Sledgehammer427 PacWagon Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Drinking coffee and staring at trees in Massachusetts Posts: 2,901 Downloads: 280 Uploads: 0	w3lcome to subsim!!! and i have to agree with you, they are amazing, giants of the deep. and one sword sharper than the pen! (had to add that for dramatic effect) __________________ Cold Waters Voice Crew - Fire Control Officer Cmdr O. Myers - C/O USS Nautilus (SS-168) 114,000 tons sunk - 4 Spec Ops completed V-boat Nutcase - Need supplies? Japanese garrison on a small island in the way? Just give us a call! D4C!

05-09-08, 09:02 AM	#275
akdavis Samurai Navy Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Fort Worth, Texas Posts: 597 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	hehe, just a little polling wisdom: never make "cake and eat it too" a choice. It will skew your results. One argument in favor of early rather than late: remember that in addition to new submarines, you would need an almost completely new roster of surface ships for late Cold War, even all new merchants. __________________ -AKD

05-09-08, 09:37 PM	#279
bohemian007 Bilge Rat Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 1 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Does 688i can play in American career? Does 688i can play in American career? I have U-Boat expansion (V1.5) Thank you.

05-07-08, 02:20 PM	#272
XPETIT Watch Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 24 Downloads: 6 Uploads: 0	For me, I prefer the last submarine. I found that Triomphant, Ohio or 949A are very beautifull. Espacially, I love the submarine with the winglets (or tails) on the cowning, like The redoutable or Triomphant. It's typicall of the modern sub........See those giant just under the sea is marvellous.

05-08-08, 10:16 PM	#274
treblesum81 Frogman Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 308 Downloads: 71 Uploads: 0	I'm a little confused here, are there plans to use Dagon's subs? or are they off limits for some reason? Also, I want to point out that a lot of newer stuff is available (assuming we can use those subs) and a lot of the older stuff can be modded up from what we already have available, so it seems that one of the hardest parts is out of the way aleady if this mod were to cover the 40 year span of the war... Then again, I'm no professional modder, so I'm not all that sure that some of the newer technologies could be made to work within the framework of SH4 (Missiles, TMA, etc..), but I was able to glean (using what little Russian I know) from the Russian forum where Dagon's boats are posted that items such as missiles are doable, if difficult, in SH4. I would think, aside from that, that the hardest part of creating this mod would be scripting 40 years worth of sub activities into the game, and over and above that, providing the players with something more engrossing than driving their boat out to the middle of the pacific or atlantic and running through a month-long patrol...

05-09-08, 03:07 PM	#278
treblesum81 Frogman Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 308 Downloads: 71 Uploads: 0	This is true, but the point is that SH4 has provisions for "filler" vessels (non-war ships in the environment), so that just means updating those, if it was even a consideration, would really be a non-issue...

05-10-08, 09:56 PM	#282
gimpy117 Ocean Warrior Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Kalamazoo, MI Posts: 3,243 Downloads: 108 Uploads: 0	I think the esaiest would be the 1945-60 we could always add more years later with newer ships.... and I think some electro boats were comissioned into the soviet navy.... and no doubt the XXII inside would be a close stand in for an early soviet boat interior.... Plus...this sub was a dirivitive of the E-boat http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whiskey_class_submarine and this was pretty much was an IX class....i think it had some post war use http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_S_class_submarine We may have the romeo but it is also supposed to be an electroboat dirivitive http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romeo_class_submarine so with some model tweaking we might have some more russian boats __________________ Member of the Subsim Zombie Army Last edited by gimpy117; 05-10-08 at 10:29 PM.

05-12-08, 04:29 PM	#284
MadMike Watch Officer Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 342 Downloads: 232 Uploads: 0	I've run some scenarios in SH2 using a slightly modded Type IX u-boat modded to mimic a Project 613 boat (Whiskey class submarine, also modified sdf's). Lemme tell ya, getting out of Murmansk in '45 to the North Atlantic with all the air cover and destroyer screens was a b*tch (not to mention trying to shnorkel). If all else fails, a "Soviet Aces" mod for SH2 would be welcome! Yours, Mike

05-12-08, 05:35 PM	#285
treblesum81 Frogman Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 308 Downloads: 71 Uploads: 0	I'm pretty sure the mod will pick up after all the outward hostilities have ceased, meaning you might put to sea under "enemy" (no clear statement to the fact was ever offered) observation by air or sea, but you wouldn't have to defend against them (you couldn't anyway, after the war almost all subsequent sub designs and upgrades removed the surface defence and attack capabilities). That being said, the actual mod is going to need some sort of combat involvement, otherwise it will be year after year of empty patrolling, so Russian and US forces may need to be shifted around a bit to make the gameplay possible.