Here we go again-Ukraine once again pt2

[Dargo]

Scholz urges EU allies to ramp up military aid for Ukraine

“I call on allies in the European Union to strengthen their efforts regarding Ukraine. The planned weapons deliveries to Ukraine of most EU member states are not enough,” German Chancellor said. https://euromaidanpress.com/2024/01/...aine/?swcfpc=1

Suggest those other EU countries to demand the Taurus KEPD 350 first, a lot of smaller countries give more in % of their GDP than Germany. Germany is not even in the top 10 those are the smaller EU members. https://www.statista.com/statistics/...-of-donor-gdp/

[Jimbuna]

[Jimbuna]

[Skybird]

https://www-focus-de.translate.goog/..._x_tr_pto=wapp

As a result of the war in Ukraine, Germany is losing security, prosperity and reputation in the world. We should prepare for life without the American guardian and rethink our foreign and security policy. (...) The necessary rearmament means an intensification of the distribution conflicts within Germany. It is difficult to imagine the expansion of defense spending and the preservation of the status quo in the welfare state at the same time.

[mapuc]

Originally Posted by Skybird

https://www-focus-de.translate.goog/..._x_tr_pto=wapp

As a result of the war in Ukraine, Germany is losing security, prosperity and reputation in the world. We should prepare for life without the American guardian and rethink our foreign and security policy. (...) The necessary rearmament means an intensification of the distribution conflicts within Germany. It is difficult to imagine the expansion of defense spending and the preservation of the status quo in the welfare state at the same time.

My belief in Germany is falling apart.

In books(mostly Tom Clancy's)and in other material I have learned that Germany was the backbone in the European part of NATO.

Markus

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by mapuc

My belief in Germany is falling apart.

What took you so long?

[Jimbuna]

Originally Posted by mapuc

My belief in Germany is falling apart.

In books(mostly Tom Clancy's)and in other material I have learned that Germany was the backbone in the European part of NATO.

Markus

Not sure what gave you that idea

[Catfish]

Originally Posted by Jimbuna

Not sure what gave you that idea

^^ Tom Clancy, obviously.

Germany is the second in financial and military help after the US, and when you think about the last decades' policy with Merkel as Putin's friend it makes one wonder how Germany can even shoulder this now. Scholz cannot supply weapons he doesn't have. The west has not yet realized that it has to switch to war economy, and this includes ALL the West, with the UK, with the USA.
Ok so no one thought that there could be war in Europe again, just of all by russian aggression. So Putin lied and our politicians rode the dirty road until there was no doubt left. We thought we were safe, it will not happen again.

Oh no! Anyway ..

[Skybird]

No, Catfish, that I do not believe anymore, and it has been shown to be wrong: Germany may be the second biggest financial donor in Europe, yes, but the claim that it is the second biggest military donor as well behind the US, meanwhile has been shown to be drivel, and not even the Kieler Institut für Weltwirtschaft on whose numbers this claim bases, can keep them up anymore. Plans for future spendings over the coming years, and unfulfilled promises for the present as well as Scholz' intentionally misleading statements, led to this messy situation, future plans and ideas all were counted as already completed military donations. But not even the chancellor'S office seriously defends these claims anymore, I red some time ago: I think I already posted on this and gave a link to the story one or two weeks ago.

So, the Kieler Institute added together the already completed contributions, the delayed contributions not yet done, and also the just planned, announced, intended future contributions of uncertain reliability (Zeitenwende, special budget for the BW anymone...?) , and this total net account for long time was presented by Kiel to be the already made and completed German contributions. But: its not true.

[Catfish]

Germany remains the second in financial support for Ukraine, while it CANNOT(!) provide more military help due to the misguided politics of the last decades.
Related to it military stock and production just percent-wise Germany has provided even more than the UK. This point is mute of course because we cannot provide the numbers, but there is no possibility to give more for sheer lack of equipment.
And then then we have the far Left with Wagenknecht trying to block this, and the far Right who want to join Putin.
F. them.
From Rheinmetall to Thyssen Krupp, Kraus-Maffei Wegmann to Diehl, MTU, MBDA, Jenoptik etc. there is not one company who is not politically told to make up for the losses (too late of course).
But it takes TIME, and this is what we need for preparing against Putin's next aggression against all of Europe. We know what Putin says, what Mad-yedyev says, what Putin's media force perpetrate onto the russian people 27/7, daily. This is a preparation for the big one, Putin's war with or without nuclear arms.

Germany has no nuclear weapons, France is wavering, the US is an insecure candidate even with all this official assurance of helping Ukraine and involving NATO in case of an attack against western Europe (whoever believes that after Trump)
So tell me what you would do right now, after this decade-long denial of reality? Perform some magic?

[Skybird]

I complained about these things often enough, too, Catfish. I just say that the often repeatede claim that Germany is the second biggest provider of military equipment and weapons (I fell for that lie, too) after the US, is not true, but is improper adding-up of completed deeds and announcements for future deeds (that to pay for and thus to materialise I think is anything but certain).

Like Bubble Olaf talked of a Zeitenwende and a rise of the defence budget to 2% regularly, and additional to that 2% a special budget of 100 billion. What is left of that? The budget is now being abused for pushing the defence budget to 2%, no talk anymore of the special budget being an additional thing to a defence budget rise. In fact they wasted 12-13 billion already to inflation effects by not even touching the special budget in the first year. And even now they cannot manage to get it paid out, or called up, or the defence quote being raised as claimed. Loosers.

The Zeitenwende - has completely collapsed. It gets now feasted on by bureaucrats vaporizing it for the most.

I tell you something, Catfish - they will not even keep the planned number of F-35s. I have doubts anyway that we can properly maintain and supply them. German Starfighter debacle, anyone? Too many airplanes. Too few service personnel. As a result the planes did not stop to fall down from the sky.

What does it tell us that just short time ago the defence ministry has placed an order for 100,000 hand grenades - that is the number given to Ukraine, but no additonal grenades got ordered? That only those 18 tanks given to Ukraine will be replaced (in some years...), but no more additional tanks to boost their numbers beyond the original number? That only replacements for the given PZH2000 have been ordered (in some years...), but not more beyond their original number? That Pistorius said he wants to send a heavy brigade fully equipped to Lithuania, but says not one word on where to get the soldiers, the equipment, the additional tanks and vehicles - while his general inspector just days ago warned of that this would need to be done then by cannibalising the existing units in Germany, which would reduce their material combat readiness from maybe 60% to then 50%?

I'm on your side, Catfish. All i said was that the often repeated media claim you brought up is basing on erratic statistics, and in this way it is stated simply is not true.

[Jimbuna]

[Jimbuna]

[Dargo]

Originally Posted by Putin

We will not supply anything at all if it is contrary to our interests, no gas, no oil, no coal, no fuel oil, nothing. You’ll freeze freeze Europa.

In the meantime in Russia .

PODOLSK, Moscow region – Residents throughout Russia affected by unprecedented winter heating outages in recent days have expressed their frustration and urged local authorities to restore heating in their homes. In Podolsk, a town some 30 kilometers south of the capital Moscow, at least 149,000 residents — nearly half of its population — were left without heating when a heating main burst at a nearby private ammunition plant.

“It’s a total disgrace. There is no heating and no hot water. We have to sleep in sleeping bags,” Yuri, a local resident, told The Moscow Times. “I have no words to describe how bad the situation is," said Yuri, who declined to provide his surname. "We have had no heating for almost six days." Heating issues have affected residents in the Moscow region, where temperatures have plunged to as low as minus 20 degrees Celsius in the past week, as well as people in the Far East Primorye region, the cities of Moscow and St. Petersburg, Penza, the southern Voronezh and Volgograd regions and more.

In the Tver region, a group of residents filmed an appeal to President Vladimir Putin, saying that they “are freezing from the cold” in the village of Novozavidovsky. “We're literally being killed by the cold,” a woman in the video said, adding that they have been sending requests to local authorities since September after their houses were connected to a boiler room whose power was reportedly insufficient. “This is some kind of torture and extermination of the population 100 kilometers from Moscow,” she added. https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2024/...he-cold-a83676

The $15 billion Putin spent trying to destroy Ukraine this month sure would've come in handy to make sure the city of Omsk had electricity in -30 degree weather.

[Jimbuna]