The all purpose terrorism thread featuring plenty of allah akbar

[Oberon]

Originally Posted by Nippelspanner

[citation needed]


Did you really think I'd let you down!? Come on man...

I don't like your straw-men, no, but that doesn't mean I would feel the need to put you on any list. It means I feel the need to call them out for what they are.

Well, I hope it brings you happiness.

[HunterICX]

Originally Posted by Nippelspanner

Oh PLEASE now Oberon!
What happened first!?
Them, in the millions, denying to integrate themselves into various European countries by refusing to adapt to our customs, laws, culture, let alone learn the very basics of our language(s) - or some cops being dicks, or a scared flight attended over-reacting?!

In what happened first shouldn't matter in the 3 examples Oberon puts up, it's the response from the latter who are overreacting to things foreign is what matters.

Or if I'm the UK I guess I'm not allowed to read Dutch books when boarding planes Mmmmm? because it shows my lack of adapting to their customs, culture and according to you breaks the law? and clearly I refuse to learn their language because I read in my language.

WHY do we never see or read about Russians, Norwegians, Japanese, Chinese, Korean, Italian, Spanish, American, Mexican or Israeli people all over Europe "failing to integrate"?
How is it people from these countries see it as absolutely normal to behave and integrate, while still staying close to their cultures, yet the very most Muslims do everything they can to NOT integrate smoothly, and even try to change the laws and customs of the countries they are guests in?

In Spain,
Russians don't speak Spanish
Chinese speak really poorly Spanish.
Germans, Dutch, Finns and English usually settle with their own nationality in neigbhbourhoods and either don't speak Spanish or very poorly as they put little effort in learning the language. Then there's their grievances aimed at the Spaniards for their customs, culture and laws.

Ow but not everyone, there are the few that do adapt and learn the language but hardly everyone from said countries I know off.

EDIT: That you don't read about these cases means you haven't put any effort in searching for them:
http://www.exberliner.com/features/l...rry-no-german/

Really, I expected better straw-men from you by now!

Could say the same about you.

[Von Due]

I hope you can read Norwegian, Nippelspanner. Enjoy
http://www.tb.no/avkleddavjakob/reis.../f/5-76-339647

This quote is pretty amusing, don't you think?

– Vi er rett og slett en norsk koloni som bare benytter oss av et annet lands geografiske område, forteller Ruben Bredal, elevrådsleder ved Den norske skolen i Rojales.

translated via Google:

- We are simply a Norwegian colony only make use of another country's geographical area , says Ruben Bredal , student council at The Norwegian School of Rojales .

Another brilliant one

– Hvorfor er dere i Spania hvis dere uansett er med nordmenn?

– Det er et lettere liv her, sier Cordula Eva.

- Why are you in Spain if you only stick with Norwegians anyway?

- It's an easier life here , says Cordula Eve.

[Oberon]

You've only got to look at areas like Chinatown or Little Italy to see how people of the same nationality in a foreign land often band together in concentrated areas in which their culture flourishes.

Originally Posted by HunterICX

[/I]In what happened first shouldn't matter in the 3 examples Oberon puts up

Yes, it does, as he basically excused the non-integrating Muslims with these incidents, which is complete nonsense and a prime example of a straw-man.

Originally Posted by HunterICX

Or if I'm the UK I guess I'm not allowed to read Dutch books when boarding planes Mmmmm? because it shows my lack of customs, culture and according to you breaks the law? and clearly I refuse to learn their language because I read in my language.

It is about daily life.
I can't speak for Spain, but the level of "integration" of Muslims here in Germany is underwhelming, and surely not because they don't have the chance. Hell, this country does what it can to offer people to integrate. It even starts to enforce integration to fight the problems of non-integrated people living here. I wonder why?

Over here, Muslims insult female teachers due to their dark-age-like religious beliefs, they demand that their daughters won't participate in sports classes, let alone swimming classes. They refuse to learn the language, they only keep with their kind 100% of the time, under any circumstances.
At least, too many of them.
I experienced all of this in person (well, not the female teacher thing, that happened to a relative of mine who schools refugees and hell...does she have stories at the ready!).

Originally Posted by HunterICX

In Spain,
Russians don't speak Spanish

Then kick them out/enforce integration laws - I don't know.
Over here, Russians integrate perfectly.
I have many Russian neighbors. Weird people (not meant in a negative way), but totally awesome. Friendly and hard working, honest and calm.
They keep with their kind mostly, (only natural btw.), yet they still invite you to BBQ and fill you up with Vodka until you drop.
I lived in 5 different German cities and my experiences were the same in every city, be it Berlin, Flensburg, Osnabrück, Bremen, or the city I'm living in now.

Originally Posted by HunterICX

Chinese don't pay their taxes, speak really poorly Spanish.
Germans, Dutch, Finns and English usually settle with their own nationality in neigbhbourhoods and either don't speak Spanish or very poorly as they put little effort in learning the language.

Which is natural, but today's good-humans refuse to understand this. And as long as everyone keeps peace, this is totally OK, is it not?
"Integration" doesn't mean to become some regressive leftist "let's all hold hands and dance in circles" kind of person. Accept local laws, keep peaceful, don't piss off the locals and know that you're a guest.
Why is this so difficult?

Originally Posted by HunterICX

Then there's their grievances aimed at the Spaniards for their customs, culture and laws.

Like what?
And here as well, kick them out/change your laws.
I find this kind of behavior infuriating.
If I migrate to another country, it might be a good idea to check first if I am OK with their culture, laws and customs. Sure, many things you can't know before hand, there's always that risk of the unknown, but for the most important things, it works.
And I guess I don't have to point out how incompatible the Muslim culture and belief-system is with anything west?

Originally Posted by HunterICX

Ow but not everyone, there are the few that do adapt and learn the language but hardly everyone from said countries I know off.

Again, shame, but then the situation in Spain seems to be very different then Germany. I can't think of any Russian I ever met (it have been many throughout my life) who didn't speak German good enough to get by and socialize. Muslims, though......

Originally Posted by HunterICX

Could say the same about you.

How was anything what I said a straw-man?

Originally Posted by Oberon

You've only got to look at areas like Chinatown or Little Italy to see how people of the same nationality in a foreign land often band together in concentrated areas in which their culture flourishes.

Yes, indeed - because they do accept the local laws and customs as well. Peacefully and even being tourist hot-spots
Now go to Berlin-Neukölln and spend a day in the streets there, especially after dark.
If you didn't receive any seriously hateful looks
If you won't get insulted as a dirty Kafir
If you won't get intimidated, robbed or even mugged
If you won't get sexually molested or even assaulted (as a Woman)

I swear I won't ever say anything in regards of this topic again, ever. Furthermore, I will voluntarily work with 'refugees' and you know what?
I will even openly praise Allah to be the one and only God.

Before you start to book a ticket, let me save you the money and tell you, it is impossible.

[Von Due]

Originally Posted by Oberon

You've only got to look at areas like Chinatown or Little Italy to see how people of the same nationality in a foreign land often band together in concentrated areas in which their culture flourishes.

Yep indeed. Integration does not equal giving up on everything in one's own culture. If that was true then the Americans would be living in tepees, eating corn, fish and buffalo meat and the British Isles wouldn't be recognizable. The Cajuns' singing can sometimes drill holes in concrete but I wouldn't want to be without the talented ones. Pizza? Kebabs? Hamburgers? Yes please. Curry? By the barrels.

The Irish mafia, the Italian mafia, the Chinese mafia, the Mexican mafia, ISIS, Boko Haram, those guys I can very well live without and so can most people on this planet.

Originally Posted by Von Due

Yep indeed. Integration does not equal giving up on everything in one's own culture.

Just out of curiosity, did someone claim this to be the case, or are you just re-assuring?

[Von Due]

Originally Posted by Nippelspanner

Just out of curiosity, did someone claim this to be the case, or are you just re-assuring?

Not sure if you read the news but in France there is this thing now with burkinis and whether or not they should be banned and right now it seems that the ban-camp is on top.

Originally Posted by Von Due

Not sure if you read the news but in France there is this thing now with burkinis and whether or not they should be banned and right now it seems that the ban-camp is on top.

I missed this incident indeed.
As far as I have seen, their faces weren't covered and I do not see why bathing fully clothed (as silly as I find it...) would be something that needs to be banned. This is simply stupid and unjustified and unreasonable on every level.

[Oberon]

Originally Posted by Von Due

Yep indeed. Integration does not equal giving up on everything in one's own culture. If that was true then the Americans would be living in tepees, eating corn, fish and buffalo meat and the British Isles wouldn't be recognizable. The Cajuns' singing can sometimes drill holes in concrete but I wouldn't want to be without the talented ones. Pizza? Kebabs? Hamburgers? Yes please. Curry? By the barrels.

The Irish mafia, the Italian mafia, the Chinese mafia, the Mexican mafia, ISIS, Boko Haram, those guys I can very well live without and so can most people on this planet.

Absolutely, there are plenty of examples were people have come from another country and set up like an enclave of their own culture within a nation of a completely different culture. I am reminded of the German presence in Colonia Tovar, it honestly like traveling into a slice of Germany within South America. It started as a closed community in 1843 and only in 1940 did it even begin intergrating into the local region by allowing locals to marry outside of the German social group and adopting Spanish as the primary language.
Ironically this has been counter-productive for tourism as a lot of German tourists visit expecting a much more German experience and so the residents have had to step back and re-Germanise themselves in order to keep tourism up.

[kraznyi_oktjabr]

As long as immigrant (regardless of origin or culture) agrees to follow our laws and values (self-determination, equality etc.), respect authority of judicial system and principles of democratic governance, then they are welcome.

If person in question thinks these are too much to ask for religious or cultural reasons, then he or she should leave and try another country more in line with his or her religion or culture. Any concession in base values on which our society and democracy is bulit on are unacceptable.

Thats all.

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by kraznyi_oktjabr

As long as immigrant (regardless of origin or culture) agrees to follow our laws and values (self-determination, equality etc.), respect authority of judicial system and principles of democratic governance, then they are welcome.

If person in question thinks these are too much to ask for religious or cultural reasons, then he or she should leave and try another country more in line with his or her religion or culture. Any concession in base values on which our society and democracy is bulit on are unacceptable.

Thats all.

Basing on "The first requisite of a good citizen in this republic of ours is that he shall be able and willing to pull his own weight. ~ Theodore Roosevelt", I would argue that the migrant also has to come up for his own living instead of expecting us to give him a free ride. That means we should need him. We must discriminate between migrants we need, and migrants we need not. At least they must be able to come up for his living. And even then he still is nothing I would consider an enrichment of us. That he only would be here if the benefits of his being-here would be not just be equal to but higher to what it costs us. An investment that does not produce not just compensation but a profit, is no investment, but a waste of time at least, with no compensation for the risks involved. And so, over a longer stream of such misled "investments", we would only lose, but gain nothing.

[Von Due]

Originally Posted by kraznyi_oktjabr

As long as immigrant (regardless of origin or culture) agrees to follow our laws [...], respect authority of judicial system and principles of democratic governance, then they are welcome.

If person in question thinks these are too much to ask for religious or cultural reasons, then he or she should leave and try another country more in line with his or her religion or culture. Any concession in base values on which our society and democracy is bulit on are unacceptable.

Thats all.

Agree totally.

Originally Posted by kraznyi_oktjabr

As long as immigrant (regardless of origin or culture) agrees to follow our [...] values (self-determination, equality etc.)

This raises a few questions.

To the Vietnamese here, traditionally it is unthinkable to send the elder off to a retirement home to rot away. Here it is the norm and fully expected. Personally, I would much rather have family around, living in my own home, than being left with a bunch of strangers and professionals too pressed for time and money to look after me as I live in a room that isn't mine, with a room mate I don't know. I said traditionally as this has seen some change the last couple of decades but it is still very much present in the Vietnamese values. Values that go against law on the other hand, well then the law does the talking, end of story. Celebrate as many Hanukkahs and Eids and Christmases you can handle but thugees and Jihadists on the other hand can bugger off to jail or Pluto.

As for equality, well, men still make more money than women here, doing the same job and that is largely accepted.

I do get what you're saying but there are complications to it. We sort those out and we're good to go.

[Von Due]

Another attack in Afghanistan
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-37178241