US Politics Thread 2016-2020 - Page 11

Mr Quatro · 01-07-17, 10:37 AM

Can you believe this ... sure you can:https://www.yahoo.com/news/obama-say...212438322.html

Obama says Sanders' supporters helped undermine Obamacare

Quote:

Obama also said Liberals like former Democratic presidential candidate Senator Bernie Sanders had contributed to the program's unpopularity.

During Sanders' campaign for the presidential nomination, he proposed replacing Obamacare with a government-run single-payer health insurance system based on Medicare, the government plan for elderly and disabled Americans.

"In the 'dissatisfied' column are a whole bunch of Bernie Sanders supporters who wanted a single-payer plan," Obama said in the interview.

Obama blaming a man that might have defeated Trump if the DNC hadn't of hindered him

vienna · 01-07-17, 02:25 PM

Let's put aside Russia, the DEMs, the GOP, the Left, the Right, and all that for the moment and let's look at the core: the US has an election system that is vulnerable and open to attack and manipulation from both inside and outside sources. This alone is a very serious matter and really requires very serious attention lest the problems should increase and worsen and whatever integrity the system has and whatever confidence the voting public has in the system is perhaps irrevocably damaged. Leading members of Congress, both House and Senate, both GOP and DEM, who have seen the classified reports and evidence, are calling for expanded hearings into the possibility of election tampering by whoever might have had reason to want to do so and this is not an unreasonable course of action. It is better to have a greater sense of certainty about the integrity how we elect our officials, and the processes used to achieve those ends, than to bicker endlessly and uselessly about petty partisan viewpoints. In the end, it didn't really matter who won the last election; regardless of whichever side won, the end resulting charges of voter fraud, tampering and/or outside influence would have been the same. It seems the only real solution is to do a thorough, comprehensive investigation of this election cycle process(es). Just get down to it, look into it all, find the facts, and, if necessary, formulate and enact suitable remedies. It really is taking more energy and effort to bicker endlessly about the unknown and uncertain than the energy and effort it would require to find the know and certain...

Here's an example of the shoe on the other foot: In the 2016 Presidential Election, Orange County, California had its election results and system challenged. Orange County is the fifth largest voting jurisdiction in the US has been a very steadfast pillar of the GOP in California, particularly the Far Right wing of the party. It is not too much to say Orange is the cornerstone of the CA-GOP. After the votes were tallied' Clinton won with 51.6% percent of the vote versus 42.9% for Trump. It was a very big surprise for a DEM candidate to have won in Orange so decisively, by a margin of 9%, but the real astonishing factor was this was the first time a DEM Presidential candidate had won in Orange since 1936, the first time in 80 years. After the results were posted, the CA-GOP went into a frenzy, leveling charges of voting irregularities, saying the DEMs had won due to unqualified DEM voters on the voter rolls and they insisted on an investigation. However, there was one major flaw to their charges: before the election, the voter rolls had been scrubbed to remove dead voters still listed as well as voters who had moved out of the jurisdiction; the County Registrar of Voters had gone so far as to purchase data from outside databases such as credit reporting services in order to more completely assure the accuracy of the scrub. The Registrar went to these extraordinary means mainly at the behest and bellicose insistence of (wait for it): the CA-GOP. In fact, the Registrar, Neal Kelly, is so highly held in esteem by his peers, he has won national honors for his efforts to ensure clean accurate elections in his county...

What we need is a definitive investigation that produces definitive answers, leading to definitive solutions. If some partisan political feelings are hurt or if some partisan political images are tarnished, then, so be it. The integrity of the election process election is too important to worry about the political impression of "de-legitimizing" some candidate or party. The US voting public deserves answers and solutions, not petty partisanship bickering going nowhere and solving nothing. Do it now, do it right, and do it fast...

<O>

Oberon · 01-07-17, 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vienna

Do it now, do it right, and do it fast...

Oberon · 01-07-17, 02:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Quatro

Obama blaming a man that might have defeated Trump if the DNC hadn't of hindered him

Nah, Bernie wouldn't have stood a chance even if the DNC hadn't have hindered him. A socialist President? In America? You'd stand more of a chance seeing the Ayatollah in the White House, or Putin himself!

yubba · 01-07-17, 02:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oberon

I love it,, when you tell criminals to investigate themselves.. Things won't get better till you start holding people to account,,.. I guess it was too little too late to flood this country with undocumented democrats they still lost over 1000 governmental seats since 2010,, the Russians aren't that good,, if the dems keep going the the way they have it will be a one party system thanks for the laughs.

Mr Quatro · 01-07-17, 02:57 PM

So then in reality what the USA intelligence agencies are doing is blaming the Russian intelligence agencies for performing mind control on the voting citizen's of the United States of America.

Shame on them

yubba · 01-07-17, 02:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oberon

Nah, Bernie wouldn't have stood a chance even if the DNC hadn't have hindered him. A socialist President? In America? You'd stand more of a chance seeing the Ayatollah in the White House, or Putin himself!

Some polls say if Trump would have ran in 2012 he would have beat Obama..

Oberon · 01-07-17, 02:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yubba

Some polls say if Trump would have ran in 2012 he would have beat Obama..

Yeah, I wouldn't have been surprised. He seems the right type. Ah well, enjoy him.

Platapus · 01-07-17, 04:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by August

Maybe. It is after all what Obama did to his predecessor and he managed to get away with it for 8 whole years.

Which is the same thing the Democrats said about Bush.

Both parties play the same childish games, Sadly it seems to work

Catfish · 01-07-17, 05:06 PM

I can only imagine the uproar, if Hillary had won the elections, and the russian electoral influence would have shown up.
With Trump being president it seems to not matter at all.

August · 01-07-17, 05:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yubba

Some polls say if Trump would have ran in 2012 he would have beat Obama..

I doubt that. Obama wasn't already disliked like Clinton. He was young, somewhat unknown and therefore didn't have all her negative baggage. Without that working for him I doubt that Trump would have looked like the better alternative.

ikalugin · 01-08-17, 01:52 AM

Quote:

Do it now, do it right, and do it fast

Then blaming everything on Russia, rather than say investigating activities of the DNC further, seems to be a rather unconstructive approach?

vienna · 01-08-17, 03:07 AM

Nope, not saying investigate Russia. I say thoroughly investigate the hacking and the DNC, both. If the thorough investigation of the hacking leads to Russia, then so be it; if it doesn't, then we will find out who did the illegally hacking and deal with who ever it was; either way, at least we will have an answer. Really, I don't understand Trump, the GOP supporters of Trump, and Russia's objection to even a reasonably in-depth investigation. If the investigation is done and it is proven there was no Russian involvement, then Trump and Russia can play the "I told you so!" card and do their own little "superior dance" (Church Lady reference), basking in their triumph, while watching those who called for the investigation in the first place slip into an obscurity of public embarrassment and humiliation. Trump, the GOP, and Russia could only stand to gain if the investigation turns up nothing...

However, there is the old saw about they who "doth protest too much, methinks": Why, given all they could really gain from an investigatory acquittal, do they so strenuously object? It is elementary crime detection to very much suspect the motives of a suspect who does not want an investigation into their activities. Trump, the GOP, and Russia should be confident and say "Bring it on!!" and then sit back and wait for acquittal, and live high on an easy victory; but, they aren't doing anything close; instead, they behave like crooks who don't want the inspector to execute the search warrant. They rail and rant against the idea of an investigation and seem almost extremely furtive in their actions, you know, like a guilty person. What are they so desperate to hide?...

You can take the above and substitute "DNC" for "Trump, GOP, and Russia"; it is really all the same: they should both be investigated, there should be an accounting of facts, and based on the findings, whatever action, legally or administratively, is deemed necessary, should be taken. I there is nothing hiding in the darkness, then there no need to fear turning on the lights...

<O>

ikalugin · 01-08-17, 07:14 AM

You can't prove innocense hence why the presumtion of innocense exists.

The problem people have with the current investigation is that it appears to be driven by a political agenda - to de-legitimize Trump and to slander Russia.

Quote:

You can take the above and substitute "DNC" for "Trump, GOP, and Russia"; it is really all the same: they should both be investigated, there should be an accounting of facts, and based on the findings, whatever action, legally or administratively, is deemed necessary, should be taken. I there is nothing hiding in the darkness, then there no need to fear turning on the lights...

The difference in our points of view is that you assume that the investigation is not politically driven and seeks to find the truth. If that is so then sure, US public would benefit from it, but I doubt that this is the case.

yubba · 01-08-17, 09:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ikalugin

You can't prove innocense hence why the presumtion of innocense exists.

The problem people have with the current investigation is that it appears to be driven by a political agenda - to de-legitimize Trump and to slander Russia.

The difference in our points of view is that you assume that the investigation is not politically driven and seeks to find the truth. If that is so then sure, US public would benefit from it, but I doubt that this is the case.

If Russia did hack us,, they did us a favor,, by shinning the light on the corruption and hyprocracy of the left, which the state run media won't report on, they think if they tell the same lie over and over it will become truth.., I have made some good friends over the years from Russia,, through working the Docks and online flying of IL-2,, I try to re-ensure them that the vast majority of us Americans do not want conflict with Russia,,in which I'm trying to convey to you now, our government officials have forgotten their place,, they think of themselves as kings and queens instead of servants to the We The People ,they have forgotten their oath, and, they have corrrupted them selves on both sides of the isle with greed and the lust for power and they will do anything to hold on to it even if it means WW3, we do live in some dangerous times, the reason that it seems the whole of Europe and America is against you it is because Russia woundn't go along with the new world order scheme which I believe to be islamic based, just look at what is going on in europe it is nothing short of an invasion.. Your Friend Yubba

01-07-17, 02:25 PM	#152
vienna Navy Seal Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Anywhere but the here & now... Posts: 7,578 Downloads: 85 Uploads: 0	Let's put aside Russia, the DEMs, the GOP, the Left, the Right, and all that for the moment and let's look at the core: the US has an election system that is vulnerable and open to attack and manipulation from both inside and outside sources. This alone is a very serious matter and really requires very serious attention lest the problems should increase and worsen and whatever integrity the system has and whatever confidence the voting public has in the system is perhaps irrevocably damaged. Leading members of Congress, both House and Senate, both GOP and DEM, who have seen the classified reports and evidence, are calling for expanded hearings into the possibility of election tampering by whoever might have had reason to want to do so and this is not an unreasonable course of action. It is better to have a greater sense of certainty about the integrity how we elect our officials, and the processes used to achieve those ends, than to bicker endlessly and uselessly about petty partisan viewpoints. In the end, it didn't really matter who won the last election; regardless of whichever side won, the end resulting charges of voter fraud, tampering and/or outside influence would have been the same. It seems the only real solution is to do a thorough, comprehensive investigation of this election cycle process(es). Just get down to it, look into it all, find the facts, and, if necessary, formulate and enact suitable remedies. It really is taking more energy and effort to bicker endlessly about the unknown and uncertain than the energy and effort it would require to find the know and certain... Here's an example of the shoe on the other foot: In the 2016 Presidential Election, Orange County, California had its election results and system challenged. Orange County is the fifth largest voting jurisdiction in the US has been a very steadfast pillar of the GOP in California, particularly the Far Right wing of the party. It is not too much to say Orange is the cornerstone of the CA-GOP. After the votes were tallied' Clinton won with 51.6% percent of the vote versus 42.9% for Trump. It was a very big surprise for a DEM candidate to have won in Orange so decisively, by a margin of 9%, but the real astonishing factor was this was the first time a DEM Presidential candidate had won in Orange since 1936, the first time in 80 years. After the results were posted, the CA-GOP went into a frenzy, leveling charges of voting irregularities, saying the DEMs had won due to unqualified DEM voters on the voter rolls and they insisted on an investigation. However, there was one major flaw to their charges: before the election, the voter rolls had been scrubbed to remove dead voters still listed as well as voters who had moved out of the jurisdiction; the County Registrar of Voters had gone so far as to purchase data from outside databases such as credit reporting services in order to more completely assure the accuracy of the scrub. The Registrar went to these extraordinary means mainly at the behest and bellicose insistence of (wait for it): the CA-GOP. In fact, the Registrar, Neal Kelly, is so highly held in esteem by his peers, he has won national honors for his efforts to ensure clean accurate elections in his county... What we need is a definitive investigation that produces definitive answers, leading to definitive solutions. If some partisan political feelings are hurt or if some partisan political images are tarnished, then, so be it. The integrity of the election process election is too important to worry about the political impression of "de-legitimizing" some candidate or party. The US voting public deserves answers and solutions, not petty partisanship bickering going nowhere and solving nothing. Do it now, do it right, and do it fast... <O> __________________ __________________________________________________ __

01-07-17, 02:57 PM	#156
Mr Quatro Navy Seal Join Date: May 2013 Posts: 6,772 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	So then in reality what the USA intelligence agencies are doing is blaming the Russian intelligence agencies for performing mind control on the voting citizen's of the United States of America. Shame on them __________________ pla•teau noun a relatively stable level, period, or condition a level of attainment or achievement Lord help me get to the next plateau ..

01-07-17, 05:06 PM	#160
Catfish Dipped Squirrel Operative Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: ..where the ocean meets the sky Posts: 17,032 Downloads: 38 Uploads: 0	I can only imagine the uproar, if Hillary had won the elections, and the russian electoral influence would have shown up. With Trump being president it seems to not matter at all. __________________ >^..^<*)))>{ All generalizations are wrong.

01-08-17, 03:07 AM	#163
vienna Navy Seal Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Anywhere but the here & now... Posts: 7,578 Downloads: 85 Uploads: 0	Nope, not saying investigate Russia. I say thoroughly investigate the hacking and the DNC, both. If the thorough investigation of the hacking leads to Russia, then so be it; if it doesn't, then we will find out who did the illegally hacking and deal with who ever it was; either way, at least we will have an answer. Really, I don't understand Trump, the GOP supporters of Trump, and Russia's objection to even a reasonably in-depth investigation. If the investigation is done and it is proven there was no Russian involvement, then Trump and Russia can play the "I told you so!" card and do their own little "superior dance" (Church Lady reference), basking in their triumph, while watching those who called for the investigation in the first place slip into an obscurity of public embarrassment and humiliation. Trump, the GOP, and Russia could only stand to gain if the investigation turns up nothing... However, there is the old saw about they who "doth protest too much, methinks": Why, given all they could really gain from an investigatory acquittal, do they so strenuously object? It is elementary crime detection to very much suspect the motives of a suspect who does not want an investigation into their activities. Trump, the GOP, and Russia should be confident and say "Bring it on!!" and then sit back and wait for acquittal, and live high on an easy victory; but, they aren't doing anything close; instead, they behave like crooks who don't want the inspector to execute the search warrant. They rail and rant against the idea of an investigation and seem almost extremely furtive in their actions, you know, like a guilty person. What are they so desperate to hide?... You can take the above and substitute "DNC" for "Trump, GOP, and Russia"; it is really all the same: they should both be investigated, there should be an accounting of facts, and based on the findings, whatever action, legally or administratively, is deemed necessary, should be taken. I there is nothing hiding in the darkness, then there no need to fear turning on the lights... <O> __________________ __________________________________________________ __