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Old 01-20-16, 10:08 PM   #136
Sailor Steve
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Originally Posted by Fader_Berg View Post
Is it possible to add a such feature to SH3 Commander, or isn't it developed anymore?
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Old 01-20-16, 11:25 PM   #137
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And his website is no longer operational.
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Old 01-23-16, 08:41 AM   #138
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Originally Posted by Fader_Berg View Post
If anyone can come up with an bright idea how to manage the crew rotation - other than the quite messed up solution I already tried, I'm in for it.
Here's how I used to manage crew rotation in NYGM:



Not really changing individual men, but assigning different areas of the crew compartment as

work area A - corresponding rest area A
work area B - corresponding rest area B
etc

I haven't been able to play in a long time, but IIRC the system worked perfectly during normal patrol times. Battles might have needed micromanaging.

I would expect that this would only work well when using NYGM's fatigue system.
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Old 01-23-16, 11:44 AM   #139
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An interesting features, that I have with this patch. Without it, not seen such things.

My settings are:
Quote:
wo_experience off
wo_experience_no_wm 0.0
wo_experience_xp 0
wo_experience_range 0

wo_targeting on
hy_targeting on

wo_targeting_msg "Range to visual contact at bearing %03.0f is %.0f meters."
hy_targeting_msg "%s %s! %s Bearing %03.0f! %s"

repair_time_factor 0.0

night_vision_factor 0.0

wo_to_bridge off

no_news_tc1 off
Now, when a ship goes behind another ship, your crew (visual sensor) lose sight of the rear ship. And when passed to the other side, the crew seen it again.
On the one hand it's cool, on the other, it leads to continuous "Ship spotted, sir!" message, when you shadow the convoy or in places with heavy traffic.
I even noticed, that the visual sensor lose sight of a small boats in the large waves. Again cool, but leads to too many of the "ship spotted" messages.
I don't have time to test these things in more conditions, different fog, night....



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Old 01-23-16, 03:59 PM   #140
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A lot of discussions (not only these days) for a feature (crew rotation) that ,in my opinion, has less to zero interest.
i see people say that sh4's crew rotation is ok (or ,at least,better than sh3) and i am wondering whats the point for the player if something is happening (or not) in the background if he (the player) has nothing to do with it.

I have totally discard this feature (i guess you all know the ''No Fatigue'' mod) and i can't see what will be the difference (for the player) if the game is running a ,lets say perfect crew rotation system or the ''No Fatigue'' mod. In both cases , the player has not to bother himself with the crew 'actions'.

Am i missing something here ? may by ''good crew rotation'' system , people mean that player will have to make some specific actions himself?
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Old 01-23-16, 05:10 PM   #141
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Even with perfect crew rotation crewmen get tired faster when moving on surface in bad weather. Several times I had a problem that one watch was too tired to keep going and the previous watch wasn't rested yet. Then I had to dive just to let people rest. And this means using your batteries and/or slowing you down which has impact on time of arrival to patrol zone, available battery charge etc.

Also if you have contact with enemy after long period of bad weather and your crew is more tired, i.e. less effective, it may seriously affect result of engagement.

I would like to preserve this uncertainty whether my crew will perform well or not so well (because of tiredness). Having perfect crew, with maximum abilities to hear contacts with hydrophone, reloading torpedoes all the time and such is not so fun for me. But manual crew rotation is not much fun either.
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Old 01-23-16, 05:22 PM   #142
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Fader,

I have steam version modified by hsie/Stiebler patches.

I tried few times rev36 with wo_to_bridge

When off it didn't CTD (tried submerging and resurfacing 6-7 times)

When wo_to_bridge=on game sometimes CTD, sometimes not. Not sure now what's triggering the crash.
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Old 01-23-16, 06:05 PM   #143
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As for crew rotation, maybe one could use crew qualifications to designate teams which rotate in given compartment. SH3Commander lets to award qualifications to seamen so one could mark every crew member this way.

Then we could have for example 4 crewmen marked as radiomen. Two of them would be assigned sonar and radio station at the beginning of the patrol. After 4/6/8 hours game automatically rotates them with two other crewmen with radiomen qualifications (the ones who were waiting in crew quarters).

Or maybe add a number to name of crewman to assign him to one of two watches - if it's possible to extract fragment of name and make use of it.
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Old 01-24-16, 03:44 AM   #144
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Quote:
Originally Posted by makman94 View Post
i see people say that sh4's crew rotation is ok (or ,at least,better than sh3)

First: Everything is better than the SH3-System!
And the SH4-System is perfect!
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Old 01-24-16, 06:00 AM   #145
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I like crew rotation, at least in theory. My reasoning is that an experienced crew should be able to work faster, even when tired. I also want my best trained watchmen on bridge at certain situations. Maybe they spot that plane a little bit earlier. Crew rotation should give me the option of planning ahead in terms if personnel management as well.
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Old 01-24-16, 10:06 AM   #146
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Niedowidek View Post
Even with perfect crew rotation crewmen get tired faster when moving on surface in bad weather. Several times I had a problem that one watch was too tired to keep going and the previous watch wasn't rested yet. Then I had to dive just to let people rest. And this means using your batteries and/or slowing you down which has impact on time of arrival to patrol zone, available battery charge etc.

Also if you have contact with enemy after long period of bad weather and your crew is more tired, i.e. less effective, it may seriously affect result of engagement.

I would like to preserve this uncertainty whether my crew will perform well or not so well (because of tiredness). Having perfect crew, with maximum abilities to hear contacts with hydrophone, reloading torpedoes all the time and such is not so fun for me. But manual crew rotation is not much fun either.
i see what you mean Niedowidek and i like it

is there a mod you use and have this behaviour (i would like to try it) or it is your wish for such a mod ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by padi View Post
First: Everything is better than the SH3-System!
And the SH4-System is perfect!
i didn't say the opposite padi
i was asking something else
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Old 01-24-16, 12:46 PM   #147
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Quote:
I have totally discard this feature (i guess you all know the ''No Fatigue'' mod) and i can't see what will be the difference (for the player) if the game is running a ,lets say perfect crew rotation system or the ''No Fatigue'' mod. In both cases , the player has not to bother himself with the crew 'actions'.

Am i missing something here ? may by ''good crew rotation'' system , people mean that player will have to make some specific actions himself?
Crew fatigue is an element of the game like engine damage, you can't run flank speed all the time because you blow the engines, and you can't run around in battlestations or in conditions that destroy your crew's stamina for a long time. This all introduces an important strategy element, you will f.e. not go after a ship that you can only slowly reach at flank speed, and you will maybe not be able to engage, or be more cautious if your crew is stressed after a big pursuit or a storm, or by two long months of patrol.

More than a crew rotation I think that what is needed is a good fatigue system combined with a battlestations mode (That's where Patsh3er would enter the equation).

To sum up, my ideal model of fatigue would be as follows:

1) You always generate a minimum of fatigue that progresses till your crew is exhausted after some time in patrol (This reflects the general stress of living in the uboat and being out at sea for some time).
2) There is a minimum of efficiency, i.e. an exhausted crew will anyway always be able to do their duties, but they will slow down considerably when totally.
3) At battlestations (quick icons for surface/submerged/aircraft attack) and during storms when surfaced there is a bigger and quicker increase in fatigue. The difference is that your crew can recover from this increased fatigue to the point where it should be according to the fatigue generated by the general patrol duration. They will slowly recover once the battlestations situation is finished and they can resume the normal watches (After one cycle of watches everyone has slept some hours and is recovered from the extra fatigue).

An example (Arbitrary numbers, the % are just examples)

-You are already a month at sea, and your crew's efficiency has dropped to 75% under the normal watch rotation (No battle engagements or specially long storms)
-You find a convoy, call battlestations and engage during 72 intense hours. The stress makes your crew lose efficiency to a 50%, which is the minimum.
-You disengage or lose the convoy, and resume normal navigation and crew shifts --> In 8 hours more the combat stress has dissapeared and the crew is now at 72% efficiency (It still has lost a 3% for the additional days at sea)
-After two months at sea, your crew's efficiency has dropped to 50%. It won't go any lower, but you should head back home. If you engage a ship or convoy during your return trip your crew ill not lose any more efficiency, but since they engage at a 50%, you have less chances of surviving.

I hope the example can be understood well
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Old 01-25-16, 03:25 AM   #148
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Hi all,

I´ve been using the crew management intensively for a long time, because it adds another point to the commander for which he had to pay attention. 2 settings I prefere: First I use the GWX/8hour fatigue model delivered with SH3 Commander, which leads to similar "problems" Niedowidek describes above. The second point is to switch on "crew efficiency" for every crew sensor in the "sensors.cfg" file. With this function enabled, imho a tired watch will spot a target later then a relaxed one, a hydrophone contact will be reported later and so on. This forces me to exchange the watch continously.

Btw, typically the bridge watch had a 4 hour turn, the machine watch a 6 hour turn and the radio operators rotated every 4 hour during day and every 6 hour during night. I exchange the crew according to this schedule, one by one if necessary, what takes a long time of course and sometimes gets boring in a certain way, but because I always plot my course , mark sundown, sunrise and depth, log the wheather and check the technical systems, i therefore get a good feeling about my current sea-worthyness and the overall circumstances.

Next: Although I see the point of that general "fatigue" after a long patrol, NYGM doesn´t simulate the recurrent watch by watch fatigue. Because imho the latter has the more important influence on the commander´s decisions, I prefere the GWX model. I´m not sure if a crew that e.g. operated successfully during a several week patrol should be able to do its duty for only "75%" or "50%", only because they are on a long trip. Generally that seems to me a little bit overestimated.

Maybe that fatigue isn´t a question of physival but of mental exhaust, what could be simulated by that odd "motivation" factor instead? Does this motivation factor has an influence on the game at all? I´ve never noticed that.

Finally, thanks to Fader_Berg for his additional options. Especially the exchange of non-machine petty officers between the engine rooms is a really fine improvement!
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Old 01-25-16, 10:50 AM   #149
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ok , i understand your points guys.
Whatever 'crew system' that doesn't demand from the user to manually moving around the crew members is fine for me.

There are other areas of the game that will make (if improved) the gameplay way more challenging and interesting than a good 'crew rotation'.Spending time for creating complex 'crew rotations' seems,to me, a waste of time at this moment

just my two cents
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Old 01-25-16, 02:40 PM   #150
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leitender View Post
Hi all,

..., but because I always plot my course , mark sundown, sunrise and depth, log the wheather and check the technical systems, i therefore get a good feeling about my current sea-worthyness and the overall circumstances.

...

Maybe that fatigue isn´t a question of physival but of mental exhaust, what could be simulated by that odd "motivation" factor instead? Does this motivation factor has an influence on the game at all? I´ve never noticed that.
Hi Leitender,

just for curiosity: how do you plot your course, mark sundown, depth,...? And what technical systems do you check? It sounds very interesting!

Concerning the motivation factor: See this old post for an explanation what it does:

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/show...3&postcount=26

Regards, LGN1
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