[TEC] Periscope fields of view - SH4 vs SH3 - Page 2

Argus00 · 06-05-07, 09:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CaptainCox

NOT FAIR!!!!! Dev's doing mods now!

Hahaha way to go man!

lol - maybe they'll turn out a Grey Wolves XP instead of a patch :rotfl:

tater · 06-05-07, 10:20 AM

Does the observation scope have a larger objective, but the same magnification in RL? Light gathering is a function of objective diameter (so is angular resolution, actually).

panthercules · 06-06-07, 12:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tater

Does the observation scope have a larger objective, but the same magnification in RL? Light gathering is a function of objective diameter (so is angular resolution, actually).

I believe so - in the manual cited at the link above, the scope which appears to be an attack scope (designated 91KA40T/1.414HA ) is listed as having an "outer diameter of reduced section" (I think that meants the very top/tip of the scope) of 1.414 inches, whereas the scope which appears to be an obs/night scope (designated 93KN36) is listed as having an "Minimum outer diameter of taper section" (which, again, I believe means the very tip/top of the scope shaft) of 3.75", but it lists both scopes having the same 1.5X/6X magnifications, which I take to mean that the night scope uses a bigger opening rather than a lower magnification in order to achieve the better light-gathering capability for night use.

panthercules · 06-06-07, 12:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elanaiba

http://rapidshare.com/files/35332490/Cameras.dat.html

Try this cameras.dat file and let me know how the ships look through the scopes

I took a quick look at this, but couldn't tell much difference yet - as it turns out, apparently I trashed my single mission test files when I went back to a stock install for the RFB 1.28 update

so I just took a quick look in the sub school navigation mission (don't have time tonight to rebuild my test missions). I did notice (for the first time) that the obs scope opening is clipped a bit at top and bottom like some other posters mentioned - hard to believe I missed that in my earlier tests, but when I went back to look at those earlier screenshots sure enough it's cropped/clipped in those shots. I wonder how you fix that, as it would be nice to have a full circle in view (though that probably means you'd have to reduce the attack scope view circle size somewhat as well, or else they'll both be the same size again).

I'll take a closer look at it tomorrow when I can recreate my scope test mission, and also take a look at the tweak file values and see what changed in this one.

Thanks for posting it for us to play with

panthercules · 06-06-07, 07:52 PM

Ok - I re-created my scope test mission, and took a look using the new cameras.dat file posted by elanaiba above - here's what I saw, compared to what I saw before with RFB 1.28 (I reduced the sizes of the new screenshots before I uploaded them to reduce the "bulk" of the post, but the other ones were already uploaded and I didn't have time to re-size and re-upload them - don't let that throw you):

Elanaiba Attack Scope at 6X:

RFB 1.28 Attack Scope at 6X:

Elanaiba Attack Scope at 1.5X:

RFB 1.28 Attack Scope at 1.5X:

Elanaiba Obs Scope at 6X:

RFB 1.28 Obs Scope at 6X:

Elanaiba Obs Scope at 1.5X:

RFB 1.28 Obs Scope at 1.5X:

As you can see, the ships look quite a bit smaller in elanaiba's version than in the Mav/RFB 1.28 version, at both 6X and 1.5X. Also note that in elanaiba's version, the ships don't look the same size in the two scopes when both are at 6X looks bigger/covers more ticks in the attack scope than in the obs scope). Not sure what any of that means yet or which one is more "right" (or even, which one I like better) - just reporting what I saw. Will have to think about this some more.

WolfyBrandon · 06-06-07, 08:59 PM

I was actually thinking of posting a topic about this at one time. When I use to play a lot of SH3 by looking through the scope I was able to make a very good judgment about the distance of a ship how far I needed to lead shoot the ship to hit it without gathering any information about it. This made SH3 pretty exciting in times where I needed to make quick shot. When it comes to SH4, I can’t hit the broad side of a barn doing that. Also it bugs me SH4 wont allow me to shoot like that with manual targeting option enabled because by turning the scope wont change where the torpedo fires, aim the scope at 030 and fire and the torpedo runs down 000 not 030. I was trying it with manual targeting off and was having a hard time. I took some screenshots of how far away the ship looked in the scope compared it to how far away it looked having the camera right next to my scope in the 3D view and there was a big difference. Can’t find the screenshots I took, but I think I remember the ship looking like it was further away in the scope than it actually was in the 3D view making me over shoot all the time. Maybe the magnification of the scope is SH4 is off? Something I wanted to look into...

Wolfy

panthercules · 06-06-07, 10:13 PM

And the winner is.....

Mav/RFB 1.28

assuming that the data in the manual cited in the previous posts is correct, anyway. According to that data, the total width of the FOV in both the attack scope and the obs/night scope at 6X should be about 420 feet (had to dust off my trigonometry formulas to figure that out - and my friends said I'd never use that math again after I finished school

). Since the length of a Liberty ship is about 441 feet, at 6X the image of the Liberty ship should just barely spill over/outside each side of the scope view - and that's exactly how it looks in the Mav/RFB 1.28 scope 6X screenshots above, whereas the ship in the elanaiba version only takes up maybe 60-70 percent or so of the width of the scope view areas. (It's harder to tell from the screenshots, but at 1.5x the image should take up about 26% of the total width, and the Mav/RFB image does just that whereas the elanaiba image only takes up about 18% or so of the FOV).

So, kudos for Mav for apparently hitting it on the button, and to Beery for including these settings in RFB 1.28. Now, just gotta go out there and re-train my Mark 1 eyeballs to get used to it. Well Done

06-06-07, 07:52 PM	#20
panthercules The Old Man Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 1,336 Downloads: 6 Uploads: 0	Ok - I re-created my scope test mission, and took a look using the new cameras.dat file posted by elanaiba above - here's what I saw, compared to what I saw before with RFB 1.28 (I reduced the sizes of the new screenshots before I uploaded them to reduce the "bulk" of the post, but the other ones were already uploaded and I didn't have time to re-size and re-upload them - don't let that throw you): Elanaiba Attack Scope at 6X: RFB 1.28 Attack Scope at 6X: Elanaiba Attack Scope at 1.5X: RFB 1.28 Attack Scope at 1.5X: Elanaiba Obs Scope at 6X: RFB 1.28 Obs Scope at 6X: Elanaiba Obs Scope at 1.5X: RFB 1.28 Obs Scope at 1.5X: As you can see, the ships look quite a bit smaller in elanaiba's version than in the Mav/RFB 1.28 version, at both 6X and 1.5X. Also note that in elanaiba's version, the ships don't look the same size in the two scopes when both are at 6X looks bigger/covers more ticks in the attack scope than in the obs scope). Not sure what any of that means yet or which one is more "right" (or even, which one I like better) - just reporting what I saw. Will have to think about this some more. __________________

06-06-07, 08:59 PM	#21
WolfyBrandon Frogman Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: U-957: Patrol 05 In Progress... Posts: 306 Downloads: 105 Uploads: 0	I was actually thinking of posting a topic about this at one time. When I use to play a lot of SH3 by looking through the scope I was able to make a very good judgment about the distance of a ship how far I needed to lead shoot the ship to hit it without gathering any information about it. This made SH3 pretty exciting in times where I needed to make quick shot. When it comes to SH4, I can’t hit the broad side of a barn doing that. Also it bugs me SH4 wont allow me to shoot like that with manual targeting option enabled because by turning the scope wont change where the torpedo fires, aim the scope at 030 and fire and the torpedo runs down 000 not 030. I was trying it with manual targeting off and was having a hard time. I took some screenshots of how far away the ship looked in the scope compared it to how far away it looked having the camera right next to my scope in the 3D view and there was a big difference. Can’t find the screenshots I took, but I think I remember the ship looking like it was further away in the scope than it actually was in the 3D view making me over shoot all the time. Maybe the magnification of the scope is SH4 is off? Something I wanted to look into... Wolfy __________________ [Current JSGME Mods Used In My Game] "Dave, you will always be remembered! R.I.P." U-759

06-06-07, 10:13 PM	#22
panthercules The Old Man Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 1,336 Downloads: 6 Uploads: 0	And the winner is..... Mav/RFB 1.28 assuming that the data in the manual cited in the previous posts is correct, anyway. According to that data, the total width of the FOV in both the attack scope and the obs/night scope at 6X should be about 420 feet (had to dust off my trigonometry formulas to figure that out - and my friends said I'd never use that math again after I finished school ). Since the length of a Liberty ship is about 441 feet, at 6X the image of the Liberty ship should just barely spill over/outside each side of the scope view - and that's exactly how it looks in the Mav/RFB 1.28 scope 6X screenshots above, whereas the ship in the elanaiba version only takes up maybe 60-70 percent or so of the width of the scope view areas. (It's harder to tell from the screenshots, but at 1.5x the image should take up about 26% of the total width, and the Mav/RFB image does just that whereas the elanaiba image only takes up about 18% or so of the FOV). So, kudos for Mav for apparently hitting it on the button, and to Beery for including these settings in RFB 1.28. Now, just gotta go out there and re-train my Mark 1 eyeballs to get used to it. Well Done __________________

06-05-07, 10:20 AM	#17
tater Navy Seal Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: New Mexico, USA Posts: 9,023 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 2	Does the observation scope have a larger objective, but the same magnification in RL? Light gathering is a function of objective diameter (so is angular resolution, actually).