Please don't make the AI too difficult

[mr chris]

Well Barry where do we start.


Originally Posted by Beery

As for GWX being there for SH4 - what have you guys done for the game lately?


Time my friend all in good time. Do you ever read what the good kpt posts.
GWX is not even finshed yet.
Oh and from what ive seen either is SH4.


Originally Posted by Beery

Usually you wait until the real modders have built stuff then it gets adopted and 'enhanced'. Serious modders are working on the game now, not waiting until there's enough good stuff for the GWX folks to claim as their own.


The real modders?
Who might they be pray tell?
The ones that droped modding SH3 well over a year ago claiming that what GWX has gone on to give to the Sub Simmer was not possible?
The ones that are now doing all the minor tweaks and mods for SH4 and will run away as soon as it gets to difficult?
If Rub was so great and was the Ultimate mod for SH3.
Where was the chance to play in other Theathers of operations such as the Black sea and Indian ocean that you get in GWX amongst lots of other stuff.
Funny i never saw that option in Rub.

As for your claim that GWX claims others works as there own now that is a serious claim indeed where is your hardcore prove that Rub files or anyone else work for that matter is used in GWX without the proper crediting being given if known?
Come on Barry put up or Shut up.


Originally Posted by Beery

Quote:
It's not a mod for simmers though. It's a graphics mod for goodness sake. It started life as RUb lite - for the arcade crowd. GWX for simmers? Give me a break!

Its not a mod for simmers?
Why is it not?
Who are you to judge others?

LOL your are a funny guy Barry.
I will just ask you one question?
Do you like Kit kats?

[Kataki]

Fisticuffs please!


Im going to be nosey and get involved in something I shouldn't...

lol lets not start accussing who of doing what, thats just counter productive. We (er modders) are all modding the same game, using the same tools, looking for similar results so the fact that some of the aspects of the two mods are the same isn't that suprising. Is it really that far fetched to reason that some similarities are just that and have no mischievous means behind them.

As far as the realism vs gameplay aspect of the AI issue I think the truth lies somewhere between what Beery is trying to say and GWX's pov. 50 Patrols without your sub being sunk Beery? How fun would that be? Then again it all depends on the capn' and how he plays. Ive been sunk multiple times in one patrol before due to dmg and wanting to see if I could survive. It all really depends on how you play, and when you let yourself "Die".

AI behavior should have some believablity and act as humans who want to kill you. I just want them to put some effort into trying to locate and kill Me. After you Torpedo a boat in an AI convoy I would expect them to make some sort of defensive action. Zig Zag, change speeds, or send out a destroyer to look for you I just want them to do SOMETHING. It is just dumb when I can surface next to a destroyer, dive and still manage to get away without much more than a scratch.

Its all personal preference, which is why it is nice to have a choice.

[joea]

I have issues with what each of the "supermodders" have said, and agree with points each of them have brought up...have used all of their stuff too and respect them. I won't go farther lest my words be used as ammo just stating my view. Although I exclusively GWX now, and tried SH4 and well can't run it (GWX is heavy enough for my system ) so haven't tried some of the exciting stuff going on there...appreciated the other's work in the past.

[Dowly]

Beery, you need a shoulder to cry against?

[Kpt. Lehmann]

Apologies to all who may feel caught in the middle.

Berry cannot even get his own facts straight.

Earlier this month the following was posted by Beery in the Ubisoft Silent Hunter forums, I chose to ignore it since I had better things to do than dea with vitriolic delusional jealousy.

It begins here: http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/t...055#3571056055

Posted by Beeryus aka "Beery" at Subsim.com
Posted Fri April 13 2007 14:37
Work was stopped on RUb because with version 2.0 it was complete. It still works with the latest version of SH3. Nothing more was needed. Other mods added chrome, but RUb was the best and still is. Besides, GWX wasn't even a realistic mod - it was aimed at arcade fans for goodness sake.
Anyway, why is it, if GWX was so great, that the folks behind it aren't producing the big mod for SH4 now? I dunno, it seems strange that the same folks who were behind RUb are the ones making all the big steps in modding SH4. Where are these other genius modders when we need them? Probably waiting for me and my crew to finish RFB so they can jump in and start adding their stuff to it and proclaiming it the second coming. Well my crew came first and most of what GWX is was brought to it by the names that can be found in the RUb readme file, using the mods that were in RUb before they appeared anywhere else.

The following is only the tip of the iceberg where GW/GWX responses are concerned.

1. To my knowledge there never was a RUb 2.0 released. Beery started it, but then suffered burnout. RUb 1.45 is the last release I know of and is the latest available at www.beerymod.com . So, if RUb 2.0 was complete as Beery states, what was RUb 1.45, the last actual (and current) released version? Obviously not complete.

2. Beery says "I mean all the other major mods that came later were based on the huge amount of work that was done for RUb." then says "Compared to RUb it's [GWX] arcade.". So how can his later statement "except for the major parts of GWX that are actually RUb in disguise" be true? I'm confused. I mean, if RUb is hardcore, as he states, and GWX is arcade, as he states, how can GWX be "RUb in disguise", as he states?!?! Hardcore is opposite to arcade, is it not? Must
have been a lot of "chrome" or "lipstick" added...

3. Re his "EVERY major mod back then used the flotilla mod that I developed", our (GWX) flotilla files have been extensively reworked to affect the addition of three flotillas not represented in RUb, and five new player U-boat ports. Any similarity can be viewed as coincidental. You cannot copyright a historical date. Concerning history vs. SH3 code... ours were made to match history as close as possible within the constraints of the system.

4. RUb... is a collection of mods which in no small way draws from other community members work. These, mods by community members are easily extracted. Futhermore, it is a simple matter for anyone to contact and obtain permissions for each. Indeed, obtaining permission has always been our policy. Concerning any "no-responses" for items created by community members who are no longer active... our policy has been to include the work and credit with the most current information our crew can find.

5. Looking at the list of names that Beery posted constituting previous "RUb team members"... Indeed many of those ppl were credited... and are still credited within the currently available GWX manual. "Ail or "AlainT" was a graphics and particles artist/modder listed as part of the RUB team... (I thought RUb didn't have any artsy "fluff"... So you disrespect a member of your own team?)

6. Hardcore, non fluff only??? Then why include the practice crashdive sequence from "Das Boot" in the sound files for RUb?

7. Concerning your baiting comments regarding where we are in relation to SH4... they of no consequence. Being first does not make a thing "right"... It simply makes a thing "first." BFD. Many of the modding methods needed to alter SH3 will also function for many of the file types found in SH4.

8. Concerning your comments comparing us to X1... IMHO, I feel that GWX and all the contributions within... was this community's best return fire at X1 for doing what they did.

9. Read the GWX Manual and credits again. Your response concerning them was half-baked.

I haven't even gotten warmed up yet. So you spent six months modding SH3. Big farking deal. We've spent two years doing the same.

HELL WILL FREEZE OVER BEFORE "BEERY" or "RUb" APPEARS IN THE GWX CREDITS LISTING.

The only credit you can claim concerning GW/GWX... is creating an environment (when you were the SH3 mods forum moderator) that was so insufferable due to your narrow-mindedness and attitude problem... that it caused the GW/GWX Dev team to form.

[P_Funk]

I love this man ^^^

And @ Beery re. GWX guys not modding for SH4.

Unfortunately for the SH4 crowd the committed modders involved in GWX do not simply jump ship when the next new thing comes along. No, they stick it out, they put more hours in, they keep up trying to improve their product, and they continue to innovate.

You Beery stopped working on SH3 a long time ago. You have not contributed to this game for some time yet other modders have continued to find ways of adding to this game, and in more than just graphical ways. Rubini's recent crew mod is a demonstration of how one modder has taken it upon himself to dig deep and try and do something new and add to the realism of the game. That alone is proof that there is more juice left in this fruit.

Go and play with your new toy, get credit for being the first one in. But I'm sure that when all is said and done and you're loading up SH5, nobody in the SH4 forums will say "Thank God Beery was there first".

[Ducimus]

By berry:

Anyway, why is it, if GWX was so great, that the folks behind it aren't producing the big mod for SH4 now? I dunno, it seems strange that the same folks who were behind RUb are the ones making all the big steps in modding SH4. Where are these other genius modders when we need them? Probably waiting for me and my crew to finish RFB so they can jump in and start adding their stuff to it and proclaiming it the second coming.

You know, from time to time i may have my differences with KL or DTB, but some things i will back them up on, 100% of the way. The above quote is a bunch of horse****. From my breif stint with working with the GWX crew, i can say first hand, that they havent, nor do they need to wait for berry, for ANYTHING.

Anyway, im going to scamper off now and enjoy the show.

[Dowly]

Originally Posted by Ducimus

By berry:

You know, from time to time i may have my differences with KL or DTB, but some things i will back them up on, 100% of the way. The above quote is a bunch of horse****. From my breif stint with working with the GWX crew, i can say first hand, that they havent, nor do they need to wait for berry, for ANYTHING.

Anyway, im going to scamper off now and enjoy the show.

*Passes the popcorn*

[Kataki]

MOMMY DADDY STOP FIGHTING, CAN'T YOU SEE YOU'RE TEARING APART OUR FAMILY

[danlisa]

Originally Posted by Kataki

MOMMY DADDY STOP FIGHTING, CAN'T YOU SEE YOU'RE TEARING APART OUR FAMILY

I'm sure everyone is sorry that this is happening BUT a situation like this will not & cannot go unanswered. A direct attack has been launched and a full salvo has been returned.

Many people who are new to Subsim may not know the blood, sweat & tears that has been shed over GW/GWX over the last 2 years and as such the Devs have every right to respond to the unproven accusations against their hard work.

Please recognize that this is not only an attack on a MOD but an attack on the dedicated people who built it. I fully agree & will firmly stand beside any course of action deemed necessary over this matter.

As for family, certain people are like the preverbal in-laws, you never want to see or hear from them.

[stabiz]

Ah, crap. It seems Beery has been sipping alot of beer. He might be talented - so was the guy who invented the plague (he was not credited either)- but it seems Beery is more interested in modding the mood in the forums than the games themselves.

GWX-bashing is probably the hardest thing to pull off, so good luck. (You`ll need it)

Over & out.

Geez! Mr. Beery! You are SO great!
Where did I go wrong?
Ummm, When most of us new guys started out WERE YOU there?
Uhhh, NO!
When we asked for advise and help..........
No Beery help.
And WTF is this SO called RubMe 2.0?????????
Afraid some of us MIGHT look close at your so called "work"?
Give me Hex examples or shut the flick up!
And for Crickys Sake!
You can't code your web pages to
display on multipule screen resolutions???????
Do De Do!


Good Lord, We ain't got time to deal with
"The Wizard of Oz" (Smoke and Mirrors)
Gentlemen!!!!

[U-Bones]

Originally Posted by Kpt. Lehmann

The only credit you can claim concerning GW/GWX... is creating an environment (when you were the SH3 mods forum moderator) that was so insufferable due to your narrow-mindedness and attitude problem... that it caused the GW/GWX Dev team to form.

Absolutely Bingo. I left the subsim community for the better part of a year then because I could not stand his egotistical elitism, as Ducimus so aptly put it. This was as a lurker !

I still can't stand the attitude, but now I'm inclined to say so (and have) instead of leaving.

[ref]

Originally Posted by Beery

But that's not realistic. This thread is about getting the game to be realistic, not challenging for the sake of a challenge. The problem with excessive challenge and excitement in a sub game is that these things defeat the whole point of the campaign game and they remove the realism from the sim.

Let's put things on perspective, the individual posting about realism is also doing this...

Originally Posted by Beery

I'm considering making a comedy mod. This would be fantasy in nature, with humorous notes such as the BernardNote mod and with undeveloped features such as the hula girls, mermaids and The Flying Dutchman making appearances. This mod won't be immediately apparent, but comic touches will appear in the game from time to time as a campaign is played.

What I'd like is the following to start with:

The Flying Dutchman sailing throughout the pacific from his historical base in Java.

Hula girls dancing in port and on islands.

Mermaid encounters near (or on) small islands.

The captain's notepad in every boat featuring the captain's complaints about the crew.

A map detailing all the locations where these things can be seen.

I've nothing more to say...

Ref

[Beery]

Originally Posted by ref

Let's put things on perspective, the individual posting about realism is also doing this...I've nothing more to say...

Yeah, I also read sci-fi, watch Monty Python and listen to Punk Rock. What's your point? Are you really saying that two completely different mods made by one person have to have the same focus if either is to be taken seriously? Give me a break.

On the issue of accusations, all I'm demanding is that the 76 modders that built RUb be included in the list of contributors for GWX - since RUb was the basis for GWX I don't think it's too much to ask. It should have been done when work first started on GW, and I shouldn't have to demand that they be given their due.

9th Flotilla, Aces, Acsoft, Ailantd, Anteater, Augie64, Average Joe, Aviar, BBury, Beery, Billoute, Captain America, CCIP, Cdr Gibs, Church SUBSIM, Clive Bradbury, Devnull, Dick Dastardly, EFileTahi-A, Egan, Flakwalker, FLB sale, Fletcher_72, GouldJG, Grouchy, GunMod, Heretic, Iambecomelife, Iceberg, IrishRed, Jace11, Jaesen Jones, Jasonb885, JG400_Pips, Jiim, Jungman, Kossu, Luminousbit0, lurbz, macstu23, Mad-h, Manuel, Marhkimov, McBeck, Mcoca, Myros, Neal Stevens, Nico71, Observer, Officerpuppy, OneTinSoldier, Pascal, Pentallion, Prien, PurpleHaze, Purpulez, Redwine, Ripbud, Rubini, SeeAdler, Shan_Hackett, Sniper1, Stiebler, Sulikate, Teddy Bar, Tikigod, Timetraveller, Tomcat 84, U-1409, U29, U-4, U-538, U-999, Wazoo, and 'Music Fix Guy'.

All these people had a part in GWX but they are not listed as contributors because the folks behind GWX are (apparently) ashamed that their mod was based on RUb. It's not about pitting one mod against another. It's about doing the decent thing and recognising work that went into a mod. The people above trusted me to make sure they got credit for their work, and I was foolish enough to let Kpt. Lehmann use RUb and let him get away without giving proper credit to my guys for 18 months. Put right what's wrong with GWX and all can be forgotten, but I won't simply let this drop because those 76 guys were my team and they deserve better than to have their work adopted without a single credit being given for it.

If the tables were turned and I was the one building a mod on top of GWX without giving any credit to the GWX team, that would be wrong and people would be justified in denouncing me for it. So why do some folks act as if it's different when it's the other way around? Giving proper credit is the right thing to do. Not only is it the right thing, but it's also the smart thing. Modders won't trust a major mod-maker for very long who uses mods without giving proper credit for them. You can't fool all the people all the time and people will eventually figure things out.