The CHN/ China thread - Page 8

Jimbuna · 09-25-21, 09:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by August

I don't think they all would need to be united but certainly the bigger the block the more formidable especially if we back them up.

I reckon they'd wait for the US response before going into action for fear of being picked off one by one.

mapuc · 09-25-21, 12:21 PM

China is testing Taiwans ability to defend itself.

Quote:

The first deployment of PLAAF aircraft included “12 Shenyang J-16 fighter jets, two Shaanxi Y-8 anti-submarine warfare (Y-8 ASW) planes, two Xian H-6 bombers, one Shaanxi Y-8 electronic warfare aircraft (Y-8 EW), and two Shenyang J-11 fighter jets,” according to the MND.

About three hours later at 7:15 pm local time, the MND announced that five additional Chinese PLAAF aircraft penetrated the same southwest corner of Taiwan’s ADIZ.

https://swiftheadline.com/taiwan-dep...pla-incursion/

Edit
It was through FB and Breitbart(I don't trust this news agency) So I made a search and found another online news reporting it.
Almost every comment on fb says Biden is weak and China can take Taiwan if they want to without fearing any response from USA
End edit

Markus

ET2SN · 09-25-21, 02:26 PM

Maybe it helps to understand that Taiwan's Air Force and the PLAAF have been duking it out since the late 1940's.

In the 1950's and 60's, Taiwan's AF was VERY aggressive when it came to flying over mainland China and exchanging gunfire with the PLAAF. They mostly flew (then current) USAF fighters and recon aircraft.

Things have cooled down since, but both sides continue to push the other side's buttons. If it helps, both sides file flight plans with the other prior to taking off.

mapuc · 09-25-21, 02:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ET2SN

Maybe it helps to understand that Taiwan's Air Force and the PLAAF have been duking it out since the late 1940's.

In the 1950's and 60's, Taiwan's AF was VERY aggressive when it came to flying over mainland China and exchanging gunfire with the PLAAF. They mostly flew (then current) USAF fighters and recon aircraft.

Things have cooled down since, but both sides continue to push the other side's buttons. If it helps, both sides file flight plans with the other prior to taking off.

Doesn't surprise me at all. Remember only the last couple of years mocking between these two countries. As you mentioned both side does it, so I guess Taiwan air force is doing the same.

Markus

August · 09-25-21, 02:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jimbuna

I reckon they'd wait for the US response before going into action for fear of being picked off one by one.

Definitely they'd want to make sure we were lined up in their corner before trying something, but the way they are arming I figure they're already worried about being picked off one by one.

I'm thinking what they need is a regional anti-ChiCom mutual defense pact. Attack one gets a response from all. Something like the old SEATO with way more local member member nations.

mapuc · 09-25-21, 02:45 PM

If, God forbid, China attack one of the countries around the Chinese sea
The only thing that would come from the other countries in that area and the rest of the world is Harsh words nothing more.

I'm convinced that none of the countries are interested in a conflict with China.

Markus

Skybird · 09-25-21, 03:35 PM

No player in the region is strong enough to go all alone against china.

Together however - thats a different ballgame.

Skybird · 09-29-21, 04:02 AM

The Neue Zürcher Zeitung writes:

In addition, there are other elements that are indispensable for a democratically constituted state according to the Western view: the principle of the separation of powers and freedom of expression. The separation of powers leads to insufficient executive power and therefore to inefficient governance, according to the Chinese view. In turn, a lack of control over the public and social networks promotes the fragmentation of society into incompatible subsets. With the result that this is no longer to be committed to a uniform state idea.

The majority of Chinese also consider the subordination of the individual to the interests of the state with a correspondingly different design of human rights to be appropriate. This majority also follows President Xi in his “new development concept”, the basis of which is the Marxism-Leninism developed further by the “Xi Thoughts”.

Here, two thrusts are particularly important: to create “general” prosperity and continue to pursue an economic policy that gives the state back the dominant role over markets and the private sector in all matters. Drastic measures, for example against the Internet companies and their billionaire owners, who are forced to make "donations" in the billions, are intended to tackle the abruptly unequal distribution of income and wealth, which is even larger than that of the USA.

Working time restrictions in the world of information technology also serve this purpose. China's new industrial policy is no less radical with its move towards more state-controlled economy and control. This is at the expense of the market forces that these gigantic internet companies had created and unleashed. In the opinion of the party, these internet corporations with their e-commerce offers, unregulated financial services, social media portals, gaming and delivery services do not create any real value. What is added to deliveries are exploitative jobs.

Planned economy 4.0

In China it is now the companies of artificial intelligence, the semiconductor industry, and quantum computers that are receiving huge funds on behalf of the state. Added to this is the “real” added value. According to the planned economy 1.0, which has also failed according to the official reading, the belief now reigns that thanks to AI, big data and scientific planning, by means of a kind of planned economy 4.0, excesses such as those inherent in the market economy can be avoided. President Xi is trying to get through to a gigantic social experiment, as the left in the West has always dreamed of.

Xi Jinping currently knows a majority of the Chinese behind him. That this is the case is the result of a success story based on many facts, of influences from Chinese tradition and culture as well as a very selective historical narrative of the party leadership. In it, the state's interpretation of the past and the present is very closely controlled with control over published opinion. Whether the elites follow the party to the same extent as the majority of the population, however, is difficult to assess in view of the prescribed conformity.

That means: The West is dealing with an authoritarian state whose leadership is based on a huge public majority.

https://www.nzz.ch/meinung/uli-sigg-unser-dilemma-mit-der-volksrepublik-china-ld.1647453

mapuc · 10-03-21, 10:24 AM

Both side has done this many times before as some of you wrote in an answer to one of my comment in this thread.

Have it ever been so massive like it has the last two days(Fri-Sat.)
Where China had sent 77 fighter jet into Taiwans defence zone ?

Quote:

Taiwan says a total of 39 Chinese military jets flew into its air defence zone on Saturday - the largest incursion by Beijing to date.

The defence ministry said the planes entered the area in two waves, during the day and during the evening.

It comes after 38 planes, including nuclear-capable bombers, entered the zone on Friday.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-58771369

Markus

Skybird · 10-03-21, 11:11 AM

The Chinese provoke reactions yb Taiwan to track air force reaction times and -patterns, SAM radar signatures.

Its a preparation for the coming war: studying how the enemy behaves. That Bejing expresses displeasure this way over something Taipeh has done, as media report, is true, but just one half of the truth.

They also lull Taiwanese public this way. "They did this so many times, and never anything happened", thinks the public and leadership. Until the day when China suddenly means it deadly serious, and does not come to just play, but to bite.

Emperor Xin let the world know in - for Chinese standards - totla frnakness and openness that China wants Taiwan and will even take it by military force if needed, in the forseeable future. They do not hide their intention and resolve. Its not so much about getting hands on Taiwan'ÄS factories, but to deonstrate that Chi8na gets what it wants and that those people it claisnm as its property will be subjugated. To let Taiwan endlessly dance around on Bejing's nose means to lose face by allwoijug n once own claims for power and control beign ifnored without consequences. For the same reason I am convinced that sooner or later there will be a war in the South Chinese Sea as well - if the US indeed is willing to fight that one, or the one over Taiwan. I am still not convinced.

Maybe its high time that the rest of the world finally starts to take the Chinese threats serious... That is especially true for Europe and here especially Germany (Merkel failed terribly on China, she failed on so many things, but especially dramatic on China: stupid little GDR brat) - but the US and Taipeh alike.

mapuc · 10-03-21, 11:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skybird

The Chinese provoke reactions yb Taiwan to track air force reaction times and -patterns, SAM radar signatures.

Its a preparation for the coming war: studying how the enemy behaves. That Bejing expresses displeasure this way over something Taipeh has done, as media report, is true, but just one half of the truth.

They also lull Taiwanese public this way. "They did this so many times, and never anything happened", thinks the public and leadership. Until the day when China suddenly means it deadly serious, and does not come to just play, but to bite.

Emperor Xin let the world know in - for Chinese standards - totla frnakness and openness that China wants Taiwan and will even take it by military force if needed, in the forseeable future. They do not hide their intention and resolve. Its not so much about getting hands on Taiwan'ÄS factories, but to deonstrate that Chi8na gets what it wants and that those people it claisnm as its property will be subjugated. To let Taiwan endlessly dance around on Bejing's nose means to lose face by allwoijug n once own claims for power and control beign ifnored without consequences. For the same reason I am convinced that sooner or later there will be a war in the South Chinese Sea as well - if the US indeed is willing to fight that one, or the one over Taiwan. I am still not convinced.

Maybe its high time that the rest of the world finally starts to take the Chinese threats serious... That is especially true for Europe and here especially Germany (Merkel failed terribly on China, she failed on so many things, but especially dramatic on China: stupid little GDR brat) - but the US and Taipeh alike.

Been thinking the same-China is testing Taiwans military ability and reactions.

The BBC link was in a Danish article about the same subject.

The response among the Danes showed that a majority want NATO and or EU to take part in such a conflict-They want us to stand side by side with Taiwan.

If we do nothing China will know we are not interested in a conflict with China and they may take another country in the South China Sea

Markus

Skybird · 10-03-21, 11:45 AM

Indeed. But what is NATO/Europe capable to do in that region - its on the other side of the planet, almost.

Its the US and its allies in the region that need to fight this. The Brits cannot even crew, equip with planes and protect their carrier all by themselves and need heavy assistance. That carrier is more multinational than British currently, an extension of the US navy, so to speak.

Maybe that lonely, poutdate dgemrna firgate sailing misopriented around Austrlian waters ucrrently will make the big difference. It sends a very powerful message. They did not say which one, but insist it is powerful.

mapuc · 10-03-21, 01:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skybird

Indeed. But what is NATO/Europe capable to do in that region - its on the other side of the planet, almost.

Its the US and its allies in the region that need to fight this. The Brits cannot even crew, equip with planes and protect their carrier all by themselves and need heavy assistance. That carrier is more multinational than British currently, an extension of the US navy, so to speak.

Maybe that lonely, poutdate dgemrna firgate sailing misopriented around Austrlian waters ucrrently will make the big difference. It sends a very powerful message. They did not say which one, but insist it is powerful.

Many of these Danish comment to the Danish article said Denmark should send troops and military stuff to Taiwan.

Some disagreed to this, which I also do. We have nothing to do there.
It is, as you wrote,
"the US and its allies in the region that need to fight this."

Markus

Skybird · 10-04-21, 05:25 AM

The last hope for peace and stability in the far east Pacific: the German frigate "Bayern" zig-zagging around signs and symbols, confusing Americans and Chinese alike.

Skybird · 10-04-21, 05:27 AM

ooops, wrong picture, sorry. Jetzt aber, mit Macht:

Wowh, thats what i call a wake! Chinese in shivers!

09-25-21, 02:45 PM	#111
mapuc Fleet Admiral Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Denmark Posts: 19,574 Downloads: 37 Uploads: 0	If, God forbid, China attack one of the countries around the Chinese sea The only thing that would come from the other countries in that area and the rest of the world is Harsh words nothing more. I'm convinced that none of the countries are interested in a conflict with China. Markus __________________ My little lovely female cat

09-25-21, 03:35 PM	#112
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 41,432 Downloads: 9 Uploads: 0	No player in the region is strong enough to go all alone against china. Together however - thats a different ballgame. __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.

09-29-21, 04:02 AM	#113
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 41,432 Downloads: 9 Uploads: 0	The Neue Zürcher Zeitung writes: In addition, there are other elements that are indispensable for a democratically constituted state according to the Western view: the principle of the separation of powers and freedom of expression. The separation of powers leads to insufficient executive power and therefore to inefficient governance, according to the Chinese view. In turn, a lack of control over the public and social networks promotes the fragmentation of society into incompatible subsets. With the result that this is no longer to be committed to a uniform state idea. The majority of Chinese also consider the subordination of the individual to the interests of the state with a correspondingly different design of human rights to be appropriate. This majority also follows President Xi in his “new development concept”, the basis of which is the Marxism-Leninism developed further by the “Xi Thoughts”. Here, two thrusts are particularly important: to create “general” prosperity and continue to pursue an economic policy that gives the state back the dominant role over markets and the private sector in all matters. Drastic measures, for example against the Internet companies and their billionaire owners, who are forced to make "donations" in the billions, are intended to tackle the abruptly unequal distribution of income and wealth, which is even larger than that of the USA. Working time restrictions in the world of information technology also serve this purpose. China's new industrial policy is no less radical with its move towards more state-controlled economy and control. This is at the expense of the market forces that these gigantic internet companies had created and unleashed. In the opinion of the party, these internet corporations with their e-commerce offers, unregulated financial services, social media portals, gaming and delivery services do not create any real value. What is added to deliveries are exploitative jobs. Planned economy 4.0 In China it is now the companies of artificial intelligence, the semiconductor industry, and quantum computers that are receiving huge funds on behalf of the state. Added to this is the “real” added value. According to the planned economy 1.0, which has also failed according to the official reading, the belief now reigns that thanks to AI, big data and scientific planning, by means of a kind of planned economy 4.0, excesses such as those inherent in the market economy can be avoided. President Xi is trying to get through to a gigantic social experiment, as the left in the West has always dreamed of. Xi Jinping currently knows a majority of the Chinese behind him. That this is the case is the result of a success story based on many facts, of influences from Chinese tradition and culture as well as a very selective historical narrative of the party leadership. In it, the state's interpretation of the past and the present is very closely controlled with control over published opinion. Whether the elites follow the party to the same extent as the majority of the population, however, is difficult to assess in view of the prescribed conformity. That means: The West is dealing with an authoritarian state whose leadership is based on a huge public majority. https://www.nzz.ch/meinung/uli-sigg-unser-dilemma-mit-der-volksrepublik-china-ld.1647453 __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.

10-03-21, 11:11 AM	#115
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 41,432 Downloads: 9 Uploads: 0	The Chinese provoke reactions yb Taiwan to track air force reaction times and -patterns, SAM radar signatures. Its a preparation for the coming war: studying how the enemy behaves. That Bejing expresses displeasure this way over something Taipeh has done, as media report, is true, but just one half of the truth. They also lull Taiwanese public this way. "They did this so many times, and never anything happened", thinks the public and leadership. Until the day when China suddenly means it deadly serious, and does not come to just play, but to bite. Emperor Xin let the world know in - for Chinese standards - totla frnakness and openness that China wants Taiwan and will even take it by military force if needed, in the forseeable future. They do not hide their intention and resolve. Its not so much about getting hands on Taiwan'ÄS factories, but to deonstrate that Chi8na gets what it wants and that those people it claisnm as its property will be subjugated. To let Taiwan endlessly dance around on Bejing's nose means to lose face by allwoijug n once own claims for power and control beign ifnored without consequences. For the same reason I am convinced that sooner or later there will be a war in the South Chinese Sea as well - if the US indeed is willing to fight that one, or the one over Taiwan. I am still not convinced. Maybe its high time that the rest of the world finally starts to take the Chinese threats serious... That is especially true for Europe and here especially Germany (Merkel failed terribly on China, she failed on so many things, but especially dramatic on China: stupid little GDR brat) - but the US and Taipeh alike. __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert. Last edited by Skybird; 10-03-21 at 11:19 AM.

10-03-21, 11:45 AM	#117
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 41,432 Downloads: 9 Uploads: 0	Indeed. But what is NATO/Europe capable to do in that region - its on the other side of the planet, almost. Its the US and its allies in the region that need to fight this. The Brits cannot even crew, equip with planes and protect their carrier all by themselves and need heavy assistance. That carrier is more multinational than British currently, an extension of the US navy, so to speak. Maybe that lonely, poutdate dgemrna firgate sailing misopriented around Austrlian waters ucrrently will make the big difference. It sends a very powerful message. They did not say which one, but insist it is powerful. __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.

09-25-21, 02:26 PM	#108
ET2SN Ocean Warrior Join Date: Oct 2017 Posts: 2,571 Downloads: 60 Uploads: 0	Maybe it helps to understand that Taiwan's Air Force and the PLAAF have been duking it out since the late 1940's. In the 1950's and 60's, Taiwan's AF was VERY aggressive when it came to flying over mainland China and exchanging gunfire with the PLAAF. They mostly flew (then current) USAF fighters and recon aircraft. Things have cooled down since, but both sides continue to push the other side's buttons. If it helps, both sides file flight plans with the other prior to taking off.

10-04-21, 05:25 AM	#119
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 41,432 Downloads: 9 Uploads: 0	The last hope for peace and stability in the far east Pacific: the German frigate "Bayern" zig-zagging around signs and symbols, confusing Americans and Chinese alike. __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.

10-04-21, 05:27 AM	#120
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 41,432 Downloads: 9 Uploads: 0	ooops, wrong picture, sorry. Jetzt aber, mit Macht: Wowh, thats what i call a wake! Chinese in shivers! __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.