SH5 modding difficulties

[gap]

Originally Posted by Jeff-Groves

That was what was to be used for GWX 4 back in the day.
There was no S3D and many Units to convert.

I will never get tired of showing all my gratitude toward the subsim buddies who made our lives easier giving us tools, and towards the badass pioneers who had to do without those tools lol

[Seaowl]

@Jeff-Groves
Thanks to you and to ref for this fine tool. Will try it out immediateley.

@gap
Have to agree with oskar123: Great overview, that answers a lot of questions.
The information contained in your posting should be stickied in some way.

And what a question to ask, if we are interested in enhanced ports and channels?
Let me answer anticipating without hesitation everyone else`s opinion: Of course we are!
For my part I`am following the lighthouse threat with great interest and awaiting eagerly every new version of the Ecomod.
In my view these are exactly the things that are lacking at this point in SH5.


Meanwhile I have realized, that object editor is only able to place GR2 files.
So I will take the „Ehrenmal“-files in Twos as example and trying it this way round as you proposed…
experimenting a bit.

[oskar123]

How does the exporter tool work with regards to implementing a new ship? Can it simply convert a .dat ship or is there more to it? I assume the latter. Will we have to build models from scratch?

I'm also wondering about the licensing deal you got; I assume any of us can't just download the exporter ourselves? If (god forbid) jeff should suddenly go missing like TDW, what will happen?

[gap]

Originally Posted by Seaowl

@gap
Have to agree with oskar123: Great overview, that answers a lot of questions.
The information contained in your posting should be stickied in some way.

Always glad to help, if I can

There is something that I forgot mentioning: at times dat ships are rendered in game totally black . I don't know if this glitch is tied to dat units in general, or to some specific unit but it seems to happen more often with some ships than with others. A good example of dat ships prone to this kind of bug is TWoS/OHII's hospital ship IIRC. Maybe Vecko has managed solving the problem, but the lastt time I had a look into it, textures and materials looked in order.

Originally Posted by Seaowl

And what a question to ask, if we are interested in enhanced ports and channels?
Let me answer anticipating without hesitation everyone else`s opinion: Of course we are!

Originally Posted by Seaowl

For my part I`am following the lighthouse threat with great interest and awaiting eagerly every new version of the Ecomod.
In my view these are exactly the things that are lacking at this point in SH5.

New playable subs and many new ships and aircraft would be cool to

Originally Posted by Seaowl

Meanwhile I have realized, that object editor is only able to place GR2 files.
So I will take the „Ehrenmal“-files in Twos as example and trying it this way round as you proposed…
experimenting a bit.

You can use this other workaround: take any simple terrain object (the German church is perfect for this purpose), duplicate it and rename it however you want, run terrain editor and place it where you want the dat-format lighthouse to be. When you have finished (don't forget to save before you exit TE) MapObjects.ini will be updated with the new location; open that file in notepad, look for the recently added object, and replace its name with the name of the lighthouse. Let me know if it works

[Seaowl]

New playable subs and many new ships and aircraft would be cool to

Yeah, but without enhanced ports the next imported vessel should be some large container ship, painted in weird camouflage patterns.
My captains here are complaining bitterly about this strange drawn-out crates, which
do not fit into the holds of their ships and are blocking the docks unnecessarily.
Tought I have seen recently some nice looking cargo in GR2 format into the library. Could be trying something myself.

You can use this other workaround: take any simple terrain object (the German church is perfect for this purpose), duplicate it and rename it however you want, run terrain editor and place it where you want the dat-format lighthouse to be. When you have finished (don't forget to save before you exit TE) MapObjects.ini will be updated with the new location; open that file in notepad, look for the recently added object, and replace its name with the name of the lighthouse. Let me know if it works

It really works!
Great workaround! Thank you a lot!

Flakmonkeys lighthouse is still looking great now in SH5. Only drawback: the model has obviously the same LOD-trouble like Lange Anna in Helgoland.
Later today I will open up an own lighthouse thread for SH5 and post some screens.

[Jeff-Groves]

IF the dat has the Unifiedrender controller?
There is an LOD setting. Try changing those.
If your using an SH3 file? Run SH3 to SH4 on it and it will update the files to SH4 standards.

[Jeff-Groves]

Originally Posted by gap

Always glad to help, if I can

There is something that I forgot mentioning: at times dat ships are rendered in game totally black . I don't know if this glitch is tied to dat units in general, or to some specific unit but it seems to happen more often with some ships than with others. A good example of dat ships prone to this kind of bug is TWoS/OHII's hospital ship IIRC. Maybe Vecko has managed solving the problem, but the lastt time I had a look into it, textures and materials looked in order.

Can you sent me the files for that Unit?

Edit: Never mind. Dl'd the install and found a reference in the roster files that point to a Normals texture that does not exist.
NHOSP does have the normals UV's but no Normals texture is in it's folder.
NSHOS does NOT have Normals UV's so should NOT have a Normals texture pointed to it.

Solution should be to add the normals texture to NHOSP folder and then delete the Roster NSOHP pointer to the Normals texture.

Now a simple way to check ALL dat files for the second or Normals UV mappings?
Run a scan with 010 to find all files that contain TMAP
Searching only .dat files.

[Seaowl]

Originally Posted by Jeff-Groves

IF the dat has the Unifiedrender controller?
There is an LOD setting. Try changing those.
If your using an SH3 file? Run SH3 to SH4 on it and it will update the files to SH4 standards.

Gosh! Jeff, thank you! I had deleted all controllers inside the .dat, because I tought it is necessary to rebuild them separately into a .sim file with granny editor.
But now I took simply the original file and it works. Lighthouse is not fading, fresnel is working.
Have to test a little bit more, how far away the light is visible etc.

[Jeff-Groves]

Originally Posted by Seaowl

Gosh! Jeff, thank you! I had deleted all controllers inside the .dat, because I tought it is necessary to rebuild them separately into a .sim file with granny editor.
But now I took simply the original file and it works. Lighthouse is not fading, fresnel is working.
Have to test a little bit more, how far away the light is visible etc.

You converted the original with SH3 to SH4?

[Seaowl]

No, I took the original SH3 .dat.
Had to extract it from a harborkit respectively I deleted the harborkit around the lighthouse + texture knots.
The converter closed with the error message: list index out of bounds (0)
Probably because the messy way of extraction or because I use only the .dat without any .cfg or roster file?

[Jeff-Groves]

Originally Posted by Seaowl

No, I took the original SH3 .dat.
Had to extract it from a harborkit respectively I deleted the harborkit around the lighthouse + texture knots.
The converter closed with the error message: list index out of bounds (0)
Probably because the messy way of extraction or because I use only the .dat without any .cfg or roster file?

Yes. No support files throws that error.
It's not a perfect Tool for some needs.
S3D you can add the Unifiedrender controller.

[Seaowl]

Thanks again.
Will try to add unifiedrender controller.
Atm I´m starting some night mission to see how far the lighthouse flare is visible.
Scenery is Elbe mouth near Brunsbüttel, Gap`s Ecomod activated.

[gap]

Sorry for the late replies guys

Originally Posted by Seaowl

Yeah, but without enhanced ports the next imported vessel should be some large container ship, painted in weird camouflage patterns.
My captains here are complaining bitterly about this strange drawn-out crates, which
do not fit into the holds of their ships and are blocking the docks unnecessarily.
Tought I have seen recently some nice looking cargo in GR2 format into the library. Could be trying something myself.

I am sorry to disappoint you but I think there were neither intermodal containers nor container ships until late 40s - early 50s, the earliest cointaner ships being T2 tankers converted post WWII

Prior to their advent, general cargo ships and bulk carriers were used instead. The latter category was not very common though as it was mostly limited to coastal traffic.

Originally Posted by Seaowl

It really works!
Great workaround! Thank you a lot!

Originally Posted by Seaowl

Flakmonkeys lighthouse is still looking great now in SH5. Only drawback: the model has obviously the same LOD-trouble like Lange Anna in Helgoland.
Later today I will open up an own lighthouse thread for SH5 and post some screens.

Originally Posted by Jeff-Groves

IF the dat has the Unifiedrender controller?
There is an LOD setting. Try changing those.
If your using an SH3 file? Run SH3 to SH4 on it and it will update the files to SH4 standards.

Originally Posted by Seaowl

Gosh! Jeff, thank you! I had deleted all controllers inside the .dat, because I tought it is necessary to rebuild them separately into a .sim file with granny editor.
But now I took simply the original file and it works. Lighthouse is not fading, fresnel is working.
Have to test a little bit more, how far away the light is visible etc.

MinRenderDim: that's probably the controller that fixed the too short lighthouse LOD distance. Unfortunately the Unifiedrender controller is not compatible with GR2 objects, but I am going to check if MinRenderDim can be used instead. I think it won't work, but you never know...

Originally Posted by Jeff-Groves

Can you sent me the files for that Unit?

Edit: Never mind. Dl'd the install and found a reference in the roster files that point to a Normals texture that does not exist.
NHOSP does have the normals UV's but no Normals texture is in it's folder.
NSHOS does NOT have Normals UV's so should NOT have a Normals texture pointed to it.

Solution should be to add the normals texture to NHOSP folder and then delete the Roster NSOHP pointer to the Normals texture.

Now a simple way to check ALL dat files for the second or Normals UV mappings?
Run a scan with 010 to find all files that contain TMAP
Searching only .dat files.

Well spotted Jeff. I will check that and inform Vecko as soon as I will see him online

[Seaowl]

No need for excuses! We are all doing this in our spare time.

If its like you said, that there will be no containership until late 40, what for Neptunes sake shall we do with all these containers in SH5 ports?
And why there are container cranes?

Annoyed by them I tried once some reskin with crate textures, but the outcome looked uglier than before.
Not only the mapping is confusing, but its difficult to match this greyish colour temper.
However to tell the truth, this is some minor problem.

As I saw this beautiful lighthouse with his great texture in SH5, I fear I became a little bit too enthusiastic.
Tweaking the ParticleGenerator does nothing.
At about 3500m away the lighthouse become visible from the bridge of the Uboat.
(But only if there is at least the water reflection controller inside the dat, even if there is obviously no water reflection.
When I delete this controller, than the lighthouse starts popping up at close distance.)
The flare is switched on suddenly at about 2700m.
Will playing around with goblineditor and contollers (trying this MinRenderDim too) and reporting, if something is changing.

In opposite the flares of the lightship is visible at long range about 17km.
Its pretty cool to see them appearing at the horizon.
Obviously other rules for sea units, than for land units.
At the moment I do some testing if visibility at sea depends partly on the height of the light source, trying to place the lightship laterns on higher masts.

[gap]

Originally Posted by Seaowl

No need for excuses! We are all doing this in our spare time.

Thank you for your understanding

Originally Posted by Seaowl

If its like you said, that there will be no containership until late 40, what for Neptunes sake shall we do with all these containers in SH5 ports?
And why there are container cranes?

Containerships and intermodal containers not being in use until late 40s doens't mean our grandpa's had no shipping containers at all. Wooden crates and other types of non-standardized metal containers were probably used instead, and they needed gantry cranes to load/unload them. I think they used pallets and metal nets for linking many small crates together and speeding up the loading process.

Originally Posted by Seaowl

Annoyed by them I tried once some reskin with crate textures, but the outcome looked uglier than before.
Not only the mapping is confusing, but its difficult to match this greyish colour temper.
However to tell the truth, this is some minor problem.

I seemed to remember that the stock containers already looked like crates, but going by your statements above, I am obviously wrong. Completely re-skinning them without redoing their UV map is probably not going to be possible, but we can replace them with whatever we prefer, or even remove them. That is going to be a laborious task, but definitely possible

Originally Posted by Seaowl

As I saw this beautiful lighthouse with his great texture in SH5, I fear I became a little bit too enthusiastic.
Tweaking the ParticleGenerator does nothing.
At about 3500m away the lighthouse become visible from the bridge of the Uboat.
(But only if there is at least the water reflection controller inside the dat, even if there is obviously no water reflection.
When I delete this controller, than the lighthouse starts popping up at close distance.)
The flare is switched on suddenly at about 2700m.
Will playing around with goblineditor and contollers (trying this MinRenderDim too) and reporting, if something is changing.

If the particle generator as a GlobalScale and GlobalScaleFar factor, try increasing their Distance parameter...

Originally Posted by Seaowl

In opposite the flares of the lightship is visible at long range about 17km.
Its pretty cool to see them appearing at the horizon.
Obviously other rules for sea units, than for land units.

I think there's some confusion here: I thought that you had set the lighthouse as a terrain object (placed using TE). If that is the case, you can convert it in a land unit (placed using ME). There are many advantages in doing that, and one of them could be longer LOD ranges, but their addition to the game will probably require a campaign restart

Originally Posted by Seaowl

At the moment I do some testing if visibility at sea depends partly on the height of the light source, trying to place the lightship laterns on higher masts.

I don't think height on the horizon is taken into account for object visibility, but you better test it in game