[REL] FOTRS Ultimate Project

[Larrywb57]

Originally Posted by s7rikeback

Hmm..... Does not look like a NDD_Shimakaze, just checking against the actual model.. I'd better check the names.cfg for errors..

Could you re-check the I.D of the vessel for me ?

Sorry S7rikeback, each time I re-load that save, I'm able to make contact with the same task force, but the ship's ID is different. The Heavy Cruiser and the lead destroyer are the one that changes. The other six ships in the convey are the same IDs. And none of the Heavy Cruisers have a fire burning midships as if they have been in a fight to receive damage. When I ID the vessels before, I used the ID button on the order bar, then I used the recognition manual to set the mast height. Then using the external camera, I go to 'look' at the ships that I've made contact with to see if anything is abnormal about the way they look. When I saw the lead destroyer in first time, I took a screen shot of it and pulled up the recognition manual to make sure I had the correct ID. Then I gather the other information for my report. I will keep trying to re-load the save to confirm the ID. But today I start back to work which leave me little time.

[propbeanie]

Larrywb57, any other mods added in with the FotRSU? Your home port was Midway, correct? And you were West of the Philippines in less than three days?Do you happen to know how much Time Compression you'd used? Had you loading a previous save to get that mission initially, and what mods may you have had in the same Save folder, if any? That may well be a Shimakaze, but a bad spawn of one and the CA both (CA Aoba??). It appears that you're missing the stacks on the DD, and have extra hand railing, which are not in FotRSU version. I'll try to track the group down, but 8 ships?? All warships?

[Larrywb57]

Larrywb57, any other mods added in with the FotRSU? Your home port was Midway, correct?

No other mods beside the Bigger Better Protractors and yes that is my home port.

Do you happen to know how much Time Compression you'd used?

When on patrol, I use time compression up to 512 while on the navigation map watching the clock to see if it stops momentarily. Which I pause and go to the sonar station and check manually for contacts by moving the dial. If the green light turns on, I adjust the boat's heading in that direction at flank speed.

Had you loading a previous save to get that mission initially, and what mods may you have had in the same Save folder, if any?

I always save the game after sinking a ship(s), after traveling a long distance or when I need to stop the game. I only keep up to four saves in my Save folder. When close to my home port or leaving on patrol, at 150 nm away, I save the game. Upon first chance, I delete the auto saves.

Initial contact of the convoy was after a save when stopping the game the day before. And I was four or five hours into game time when contact was made first by sonar.

Not sure of what you are asking about the mods in the save folder. If you asking what mods I have in the JSGME, only active mods are:

Generic Mod Enabler - v2.6.0.157
[C:\Ubisoft\SH4\MODS]

100_FalloftheRisingSun_Ultimate_v0.63_PublicBeta_E N
Bigger Better Protractors

Inactive mod is Easy AOB which I removed a couple patrols ago while in port.

I'll try to track the group down, but 8 ships?? All warships?

The convoy is in two columns. Eight ships total, two escorts, one being a destroyer, which changes class of warship when reloading the mission along with the heavy cruiser class. The other escort is a corvette which is always at the end of the convoy. One heavy cruiser and the rest are a hospital ship, which is in the row beside the heavy cruiser, followed by merchant ships.

And you were West of the Philippines in less than three days?

My primary objective was proceed to the Caroline Islands and once there, engage and destroy enemy shipping. The grid area was 7° N to 8° N and 150° E to 151° E. The engagement took place at 7°43' N and 150° 13' E at daybreak. The weather conditions were light fog, heavy rain with heavy waves until daybreak which the rain had stopped and the fog was lifting.

Hope this helps in you trying to track down the bad spawn. But now because I owe, so off to work I must go!

Larry

[propbeanie]

Excellent report Larrywb57 sir!

As for the loading a Save game, I was just double-checking that you hadn't been playing TMO 2.5, saved the game, and then opened that save in FotRSU. Doing similar to that can cause all sorts of strange, even a CTD. Such is not the case here. I'm going to guess now that what you encountered was a Convoy group, and I can now look for one with the corvette, a generic DD and a generic CA. The Hospital ship, depending upon which one it is, might be a specific call, or it might be a generic merchant. But we should be able to find the specific group you saw, see where it originates, and maybe find something that causes a bad spawn... Thanks.

[Larrywb57]

My pleasure to help. I have replayed the incident several times, but haven't been able to get the same destroyer or heavy cruiser class as the first time. Good luck on finding it.

Larry

[CapnScurvy]

Originally Posted by Larrywb57

FOTRS_Ultimate_ Development_Team,

While on patrol, USS Gar (USS-206) out of Midway, came across a eight ship convey with one ship, a Destroyer Shimakaze class, that didn't get it's last coat of paint in a few areas. Date, time and location is: 20Jun43, 08:23 hrs Midway time, my submarine's location was Lat 7°42'N, Long 150° 13'E, at a heading of 120°. The convey heading was 280°, speed 8 knots. A Heavy Cruiser Adba class had a small fire burning at midships, port side.





Great mod Team! Even if my computer is a little slow, but it runs better than when I had TMO 2.5.

Larry

Guys, I've looked through the Museum and have found the above warship to be the "Destroyer Escort Shimushu Class", not the Shimakaze. The texture is supposed to look like that....there's nothing wrong with the Shimushu texture.

The fire on the Abda could have come from an enemy plane strike on the ship before you arrived on the scene. Or, could have been self inflicted by a collision with one of its escorts, fellow warship?

The question is....did you sink anything??

[propbeanie]

Thank you CapnScurvy for finding that. I was driving myself nutz looking for a group with DD and CA and Corvette... Still can't find one with DE, CA and Corvette though... But since the ship seems to have spawned fine, it's done.

Now, Larrywb57, is this about where you're seeing this?



because, if it is, the 41a_Jap_Fast_Merchants_001 RGG in the Convoys file is the only thing I can find near there, but my computer won't give it to me there around that date, but that is a "Random Generated" issue... That particular group goes all over the place:



Your location would have been about WayPoint 947, just South of the Namonuito Atoll, North and West of Truk. A few things to notice, look at the Define Group Contents box, and the percentages of the ships generating... so I don't really think this is the group, unless that might have been a CL that you saw... But a 1% chance for all of those to generate, but you didn't see a Chitose, ~and~ there's nothing that would become a Hospital Ship in that... I am going to keep looking, just in case... As CapnScurvy mentions, it could have been one of his own that ran into the vessel with the smoke. What made you think it was an Aoba? ID in the periscope?

[Larrywb57]

Good morning FORTS Team,

Now, Larrywb57, is this about where you're seeing this?

I think it is close but, after replaying the mission in which the ships in question were not the same, I think it was a little closer to Truk.


Using the port of Dublon as a reference point in Truk, From a heading of 281° and a distance of 107.4 NM is where the attack took place.

What made you think it was an Aoba? ID in the periscope?

The weather was heavy and rain with 15 mps wind speed, making the rough waves. As dawn was approaching, fog & rain ceased but still had rough waves making it hard for the escorts to find me after I attacked. I ID each ship by periscope by locking onto each ship and clicking the ID target button on the order bar. I was going to send a contact report of the convoy after identifying the ships in the convoy, coming to a depth of 28 feet to send the message. Diving back to periscope depth after sending report to avoid being seen by the leading ships of the convoy. Earlier I had used the external camera to look at the convoy to see if any of the ships were unusual in appearance. That's when I took the screenshot of the escort .

The question is....did you sink anything??

Yes... but not what I was aiming for. I chose to attack the heavy cruiser because of the fire onboard her thinking that some of the damaged that had occur, it would sink with less torpedoes if some of them missed. And the hospital ship was out of harms way if some torpedoes did miss the indented target. Well that is where Mr Murphy stepped. The convey changed course as I was about to fire, changing course also, thinking I could get a round or two off, I changed target speed to four knots and took another stadimeter reading and adjusted the AOB. Sent my last five torpedoes toward the Aoba class heavy cruiser. As I watched, the torpedoes racing towards their target when behind the heavy cruiser! I had miss judged the target's speed making it's course correction. And now the torpedoes were headed to the wrong ship.
One missed and four impacts on the hospital ship, which sunk. In the text box, I was notified that a neutral ship was sunk. The Admiral isn't going to be happy with the commander of this boat!

I have included pictures of the nav map also.

[propbeanie]

So you're thinking more like either side of the 951 WayPoint, if I've even got the correct group...

[vmialpha454]

I have run into an issue with Japanese escort ships. Twice I have been detected while waiting in firing position between 1000-2000 yds perpendicular to the convoy track. Sea state was calm, so no broaching. No periscopes up. Rigged for silent running and all stop. How are they detecting me? They arent echo-ranging, so I guess it has to be either passive sonar or visual sighting but I can't fathom how. Can any of you guys shed some light on this problem?

[Larrywb57]

So you're thinking more like either side of the 951 WayPoint, if I've even got the correct group...

That looks the area to me, Propbeanie...

[Larrywb57]

I have run into an issue with Japanese escort ships. Twice I have been detected while waiting in firing position between 1000-2000 yds perpendicular to the convoy track. Sea state was calm, so no broaching. No periscopes up. Rigged for silent running and all stop. How are they detecting me? They arent echo-ranging, so I guess it has to be either passive sonar or visual sighting but I can't fathom how. Can any of you guys shed some light on this problem?

Hello vmialpha454,

First, if if state of the sea is calm, it makes it easier for the the escorts to hear you even if you are at rigged for silent running. In your boat there is machinery that is running which makes sound and water is a great conductor to carry sound, better than air. Second, it also depends on your position towards the closest escort to you. If your boat is say broadsides to the front of the escort, he is more likely to 'see' you than if you are pointed directly towards him. And depth of your boat can have a great impact on the escort being able to detect you. Try this the next time, as the escort approaches your boat, keep your front of the boat pointed towards the him no more than ten or fifteen degrees away from him. Try to get under the thermal layer before he approaches you if the seas are calm. As the escorts moves towards you, turn towards him ever so slowly, just enough to turn the boat. As his bow is pointed towards you, stop engines, as he turns away, add more rpm to the engines, trying to keep it below fifty rpms. And at least fifteen hundred yards away from the course of the convoy. You can aways move in closer after the lead escort passes you.

Good luck and Good Hunting!

[propbeanie]

... and that is one aspect of the mod we still have to tweak yet vmialpha454. As it stands, there are a lot of "Superman" escorts and planes that seemingly can hear and see you from 15k yards, that shoot and hit you from 11.5k yards... Just kidding, it's not ~that~ bad, but some of them sure are strong in FotRSU. They didn't call AOTD_MadMax "Mad" for nothing. MadMax was the original team leader for the first iterations of Fall of the Rising Sun, and did a lot of the modding himself. Once we get things closer to the "final mix" for the mod, the AI "intelligence" part will get some separate add-in mods for the player to control how "strong" they want the enemy AI to be. For now, like Larrywb57 says, a careful approach is needed in almost all cases, but especially with calm seas and a few escorts. There is another option, of course, and that is to trail them from a distance, and attack later. Maybe the weather will change, or at least you'll have the cover of darkness.

[Rockin Robbins]

Originally Posted by vmialpha454

I have run into an issue with Japanese escort ships. Twice I have been detected while waiting in firing position between 1000-2000 yds perpendicular to the convoy track. Sea state was calm, so no broaching. No periscopes up. Rigged for silent running and all stop. How are they detecting me? They arent echo-ranging, so I guess it has to be either passive sonar or visual sighting but I can't fathom how. Can any of you guys shed some light on this problem?

That's on our radar. FOTRS 2.0 was balanced for multiplayer, so the enemy AI was ramped up about twice as far as TMO. I guarantee that no matter how skillful you are, FOTRSU will serve you for lunch in unsurvivable encounters sometimes.

In a multiplayer game, another player could bail you out. Most Subsim players (almost ALL of them) play single player and don't like getting killed that much. (Obviously they've never played Borderlands 2, where dying is a way of life).

It's on the radar. We will deal with it, giving the player control over his game difficulty, but our campaign issues come first.

[vmialpha454]

Thanks for the responses. I have played 5 war patrols so far in this mod and it is giving me a ton of enjoyment. I want you guys to know you're doing a great job. I am glad to know addressing the ai is on your radar. I like the difficulty for the most part. The only objections I have come when I (rarely) have run into a situation like I described above, and also a few instances where, despite being beneath the thermocline and at a depth of more than 500 feet, the Japanese escorts seem able to hear me perfectly and depth charge me accurately. Both seem contrary to the history I have read. Like I said, I love the difficulty, I just want it to be historical. Keep up the good work!