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09-13-09, 02:34 PM | #1 |
Ensign
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Prefered Deckgun
Hi Comm, your opiniton is asked
German 10,5cm deckgun vs. US Navy Model Mark17 I have always been satisfied with the standard 10,5-cm SK C/32 deckgun of the Typ XXI boat, but now i am being offered a 12,7-cm (5 Inch) Mark17 deckgun. Which would/do you prefer? (Sorry for the german in screenie) 12,7cm (5 inch) from the side: ________________________ 10,5cm from the side: 12,7cm (5 inch) full view: 10,5cm full view: cheers morph |
10-20-15, 08:30 PM | #2 |
Watch
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I am good with any deck gun as long as it is on the front of my boat
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10-25-15, 06:51 AM | #3 |
Officer
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Prefered Deckgun
A higher calibre is never bad, but according to the pictures the 10,5 is more accurate due to the in relation to the calibre longer barrel.
But the 12,7 has AA capabilities...
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10-25-15, 09:44 AM | #4 | |
Gefallen Engel U-666
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10-25-15, 10:50 AM | #5 | |
Officer
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You're right. The Typ XXI only had two AA-Guns...
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10-25-15, 09:56 PM | #6 |
Navy Seal
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Polls of American WWII skippers favored the removal of deck guns to quiet the boat underwater and because they were entirely worthless.
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10-26-15, 02:49 AM | #7 | |
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With the nearly non existing japanese ASW they were very useful to sink targets which are not worth a torpedo.
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10-26-15, 10:27 AM | #8 |
Navy Seal
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Actually they weren't valuable for sinking anything bigger than a sampan. Your normal 1500 ton freighter took between 150 and 200 shots to sink and no gun action during the war shot faster than one shot every 20 seconds. You do the math. It's just a completely unjustifiable risk to boat and crew to sit up there for that long plugging little holes in a freighter. That's why it didn't happen in the war.
The most common outcome of manning the deck gun was cleaning the gun crew's guts off the deck. As a matter of fact our first casualty of the war was a deck gun crewman that got splattered. Actually, pointing your finger at the enemy and saying "bang, bang" was slightly more efficient than using the deck gun. Deck guns were, however, very good for drying laundry.
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10-26-15, 10:34 AM | #9 |
Planesman
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The Germans made pretty good use of their deck guns early in the war. Most of the time it was for finishing off damaged freighters but I believe that some were sunk with the gun on its own. As long as the hits are made below the waterline, it shouldn't take that many hits to sink a target. Although it's not historical to mount an American gun on a U-boat, the 127mm would be superior to the 105mm because of its larger caliber and more explosive filler.
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10-26-15, 11:45 AM | #10 |
Navy Seal
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I don't understand all this irrational romanticism about a failed weapon. Germans used deck guns because they couldn't carry enough torpedoes to get the job done. The deck gun was an admission that the war was already lost without a better U-boat, one that wasn't coming. Had the Type XXI ever seen battle it would have done so without a useless deck gun.
Also, very early in the war, armed merchies were non-existent and U-Boats were going to black holes where warships wouldn't oppose them. That didn't last long as, the British reasoned the equation out. Hundreds of hits from the submarine to sink a merchie. One hit from just about anything bigger than a popgun to the sub's pressure hull and they're an artificial reef with fish food. German submarines, being unable to carry enough torpedoes to make a difference, were forced to use deck guns in really dangerous situations. The much better designed American submarines came loaded for bear with torpedoes and did the math to see that deck guns were more of a danger to their user than their target.
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10-26-15, 03:19 PM | #11 |
Navy Seal
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I'm reading a book on Google Books called Surface and Destroy: The Submarine Gun War in the Pacific. After reading quite a bit of it I didn't see a single report of damaging a freighter and finishing it off with a deck gun.
The book is concerned primarily with attacks on fishing trawlers and smaller craft. Thinking I was hitting the mother lode, I picked up a little fools gold at best.
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10-26-15, 03:21 PM | #12 | |
Officer
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The american subs were poorly designed. A sub need to have a quick dive time and what did the americans have? 1 Minute? 55 Seconds? In the Atlantic they were sunk during their first rendevouz with an enemy... And second: They were build so high to have the guys protected from the water (german submariners were laughing about that needless luxury) that you can see them from great distances, even in the night in which german subs are invisible... And third: They have so much needless luxury which cunsumes space that could be used much more efficient!
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10-26-15, 04:44 PM | #13 | ||||
The Old Man
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Unless you're referring to the encounter between the S-33 and U-571... Quote:
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I think you need to sit down and read Norman Friedman's US Submarines Through 1945: An Illustrated Design History or John D Alden's The Fleet Submarine in the United States Navy to get a better idea about why these submarines were designed the way they were. |
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10-26-15, 06:02 PM | #14 | |
Officer
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10-26-15, 06:14 PM | #15 | |
The Old Man
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Where did you hear that the first encounter between a Fleet boat and a German warship ended with the American submarine being sunk? |
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