[REL] Air Torpedos/Torpedo Bombers revisited and working!

[Wreford-Brown]

Originally Posted by Rubini

Hi mate,

The first info that we need is what planes (that we have on sh3/super mods) that crried torpedos attacks on WWII historically. Also the number of torpedos carried (1 or 2). After that is easy to mount the airplanes and then you can script then on SM or even in campaign SCR. Can you look on this?

u.boat.net has some information:

• The first successful attack by Fido armed aircraft was 14 May 1943, so we can probably assume that the torpedo came into operational service around 1 May.
• Inital search depth was 15m, but this was increased to 45m later in the war (no dates available)
• The torpedo only made 12 kts for about 10 mins (total range around 3700m). U-boats could outrun on surface, but not submerged.
• Torpedoes were designed to be carried in place of a 1000lb bomb, so any aircraft capable of carrying 1000lb bomb could carry Fido. There are two assumptions we could make from this:
  • Aircraft carried Fido in place of all 1000lb bombs
  • Aircraft capable of carrying more than one 1000lb bomb would carry one Fido and normal DCs/bombs on the other racks in order to multiply their chances of engaging different targets
  • I personally prefer the second one, but it's your mod!
• Fido sank 37 submarines during the course of the war (31 German and 6 Japanese), damaged 18 (15 German, 3 Japanese) and was approx 22% effective (compared to 9% for depth charges).
• Fido was carried by Catalina and Liberator plus 'most US Navy squadrons flying from escort carriers'.

I'm happy to help with scripting if I can...

[Rubini]

Originally Posted by Wreford-Brown

u.boat.net has some information:

• The first successful attack by Fido armed aircraft was 14 May 1943, so we can probably assume that the torpedo came into operational service around 1 May.
• Inital search depth was 15m, but this was increased to 45m later in the war (no dates available)
• The torpedo only made 12 kts for about 10 mins (total range around 3700m). U-boats could outrun on surface, but not submerged.
• Torpedoes were designed to be carried in place of a 1000lb bomb, so any aircraft capable of carrying 1000lb bomb could carry Fido. There are two assumptions we could make from this:
  • Aircraft carried Fido in place of all 1000lb bombs
  • Aircraft capable of carrying more than one 1000lb bomb would carry one Fido and normal DCs/bombs on the other racks in order to multiply their chances of engaging different targets
  • I personally prefer the second one, but it's your mod!
• Fido sank 37 submarines during the course of the war (31 German and 6 Japanese), damaged 18 (15 German, 3 Japanese) and was approx 22% effective (compared to 9% for depth charges).
• Fido was carried by Catalina and Liberator plus 'most US Navy squadrons flying from escort carriers'.

I'm happy to help with scripting if I can...

Thanks mate by the info. It was very useful. The acoustic torpedo that i achieve to function in game will only seeks until 15m (in truth it is "closed" on a depth ( a Sh3 limitation, as in game it only pursue floting vessels). I made it to run at 4,5m below water what allows to hit surfaced and PD uboats (almost the time). For playability it will run at 20kts as the uboat acceleration/ final speed is to quickly and stay forever in game. Anyhow the velocity can be esily tunned using s3d.

Also, besides, the mod works as a loaudout on planes, the planes must be at level bomber what makes than a bit exclusive. This is why I provided 2 cloned planes, making the mod universal, fitting any sh3 installation. Anyway, as exposed, it´s possible to use the Air torpedos in any plane, just need some basic adaptation.

About the script, i already made it using an inovative RND groups that really works and accordingly the allied air coverage and Hunter killer groups route. Also the Avenger/Fido is just covered late war.

[Wreford-Brown]

This sounds awesome Rubini - can't wait to try them out!

[LemonA]

Originally Posted by Wreford-Brown

u.boat.net has some information:

• The first successful attack by Fido armed aircraft was 14 May 1943, so we can probably assume that the torpedo came into operational service around 1 May.
• Inital search depth was 15m, but this was increased to 45m later in the war (no dates available)
• The torpedo only made 12 kts for about 10 mins (total range around 3700m). U-boats could outrun on surface, but not submerged.
• Torpedoes were designed to be carried in place of a 1000lb bomb, so any aircraft capable of carrying 1000lb bomb could carry Fido. There are two assumptions we could make from this:
  • Aircraft carried Fido in place of all 1000lb bombs
  • Aircraft capable of carrying more than one 1000lb bomb would carry one Fido and normal DCs/bombs on the other racks in order to multiply their chances of engaging different targets
  • I personally prefer the second one, but it's your mod!
• Fido sank 37 submarines during the course of the war (31 German and 6 Japanese), damaged 18 (15 German, 3 Japanese) and was approx 22% effective (compared to 9% for depth charges).
• Fido was carried by Catalina and Liberator plus 'most US Navy squadrons flying from escort carriers'.

I'm happy to help with scripting if I can...

With the data above I come to the conclusion every 103.3 days on average there was a proper FIDO-attack on my u-boat with a hit-chance of 22%.
And only
- if it is daytime,
- if date is after 1.may '43
and if i am in the air-coverage of the enemy's bomber.

And not every 8, 24 or 48 hours. Thats pure fantasy.

And please stop explaining how the AI works. It ruins the experience and its cheating.

[Rubini]

Originally Posted by LemonA

With the data above I come to the conclusion every 103.3 days on average there was a proper FIDO-attack on my u-boat with a hit-chance of 22%.
And only
- if it is daytime,
- if date is after 1.may '43
and if i am in the air-coverage of the enemy's bomber.

And not every 8, 24 or 48 hours. Thats pure fantasy.

And please stop explaining how the AI works. It ruins the experience and its cheating.

The chance to be found by airplanes carrying a Fido is really small even with each 8hrs with 50% or even 75% probability on the RND. After play the game a lot with this mod I was attacked by fidos only 1 time per patrol (1 time each 2 months average). This is because a lot of others factors also have a great influence including the fact that the planes only will find you by visual, so no night attacks. And this is a game and i want a bit of action on it. Anyway if you don´t like these settings you can always make these probabilities yet more small. You will find these settings on the files that you need to merge on your RND, provided with the mod. A simple find&replace using standard windows text editor is enough. Or just don´t use the mod at all.

The AI explanations intention is to share knowledge and this way allowing the mod to be adjustable for anyone. I know how the mod works and it continues to be fun for me.

Hopes that it can be fun for you too.

[AndreasT]

I think I have had about 5 encounters with Fido planes, always at night and they never ever spotted me.
Makes me wonder?!?

[Rubini]

Originally Posted by AndreasT

I think I have had about 5 encounters with Fido planes, always at night and they never ever spotted me.
Makes me wonder?!?

With sh3 engine is impossible to only spawn randon groups just at day light (only with script groups this can be possible, but in a very rectricted way). What is possible is to make them almost blind at night to follow a bit the real thing. Another big problem is that the night and day isn´t always at the same common times. In some positions at Sh3 world you can have sun at 3:00am or night at 10:00 am (i´m not speaking about the poles). So it´s a compromisse, like the majority of mods for sh3. Hope that you have more luck ( or it will be a bad thing?) to encounter the torpedo planes at day light next time. Anyhow, is also (or shall be) difficult to you to locate them at night, no?
If you use them on a single self made mission you always can then script the torpedo bombers just at day light.

Resume: to have topedo bombers more correctly into the campaign game we need to put them on random groups. Random groups in sh3 engine don´t know if it´s day light or not. To avoid this problem i made them almost blind at night. But this was my approach&solution for this problem, the mod is open to anyone adapt it to thier likes, as we have not "the best" solution speaking on sh3 engine.

Ahoy!

[VONHARRIS]

I activated your mod and I already had my first encounter
I survived.
Swordfish torpedo bomber
Question : Should it be flying in that rain?

[Rubini]

Originally Posted by VONHARRIS

I activated your mod and I already had my first encounter
I survived.
Swordfish torpedo bomber
Question : Should it be flying in that rain?

Hi Vonharris,

The explanation is the same of the post above. To have torpedo bombers (with torpedos of course) appearing in a campaign game we need to have them in the RND or scripted on the SCR. The weather is random and the day/night cicle is not used for spawn scripted or random groups, so it´s a sh3 engine limitation, so no fix. anyhow they are very blind at bad wheather and at night, then they will probably never attack you at this conditions, but rarelly this can occur.

The major you mess and learn about sh3 files&engine more you learn how they are limited and unreal. Like i said, in truth the majority of mods for Sh3 (even sh4 and sh5) are at first a compromisse.

As a botton line is also possible to not use them (torpedo bombers) in random groups or scripted. To do this you need to put these planes on airbases, this will make them appears only in certain conditions, almost never at night (if you set the necessary file correctly, and almost never in bad wheater). Ok, but the torpedo bombers behaviour will be then very odd, they will drop torpedos at very high altitudes 9as a level bombers) or will drop the torpedo over you as a dive bomeber. So after so much tests, i opted by the design that is now on the mod, using random groups even with yet some flaws like exposed on these two posts. It´s a compromisse.

Another way to use the torpedo bomber mod is to not enable it on the campaign but only use it in single scripted misssion where you will have total control of their behaviour. It´s your choice.

And to finish i guess that anyone that already played sh3 campaign a bit already encountered planes/bombers at night and also at some bad wheather, so this "odd" behaviour is a stock one.