Navy names a ship after Chazez...disgusting.

[kraznyi_oktjabr]

Originally Posted by AVGWarhawk

What remains, other than political, should this vessel be named after Chavez based on his merits or service?

My opinion is that ships (and subs if marine animals and plants are all used) should be named after:
1. geographical locations (states, cities, lakes, rivers etc.)
2. significant battles
3. distinguished military personnel (Medal of Honor recipients, admirals/officers/enlisted with extraordary record etc.)
4. elements & animals
5. after concepts like Her Majesty's Royal Navy does (which I don't think fits to U.S. Navy ships)

After what they should NOT be named:
1. politicians (except if he/she also fits to any category above, having locations/animal's etc. name as first/surname not counting)

[Stealhead]

Well Chavez did enlist in the Navy in WWII and was in from 44-46 he was born in Arizona and actually was anti illegal immigration(farmers where hiring illegals to counter his unionizing efforts).

What exactly are you asking AVG?I assume they are naming it after him for both reasons his post service merits are viewed in different lights people though.Also other persons involved in civil rights have ships named after them Chavez is not the first, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USNS_Me...vers_(T-AKE-13).

Here is how it is done (naming ships that is) http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/weapons/RS22478.pdf (I just found this PDF)

I suppose that is the best source on the naming topic I suppose one could ask the Navy Public Affairs Office(I am not being smart Alec here they would have the official Navy answer)

[vienna]

Found this in one of the footnotes in the document link in Steelhead's post:

http://www.navy.mil/search/display.asp?story_id=60467

The comments section is particularly interesting...

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[Penguin]

Naming an entity after a political leader will always result in controversy, I bet there are also some sailors on the H.W.Bush, not happy with her name, but doing their duty in a professional way.
So I see the whole thing as a sign of society's plurality. Chavez represents political ideals, shared by many others, part of America's political spectrum. Like AVG and others said here: everyone's entitled to their opinion, and regarding Chavez as an important man is one. You may not like his work, but he was an American who stood inside the constitutional boundaries - that's why for example a "USS Farrakhan" would be insane and should be sunk at once

@vienna: Just curious: Are you against the naming of the ship for political reasons, as in you don't agree with his politics, or do you think his national impact was not important enough to name a US ship after him rather than a "West Coast Guard" vessel?
btw: there is one holiday for a civilian leader: MLK day - who certainly had a bigger national importance than Chavez, not too sure about creating a state holiday in CA for the latter; you guys still have a big and importnat agricultural industry.

a little desailing of the thread: I think his stance on illegal immigration is a pragmatic position, which unfortunately seems to be not too common anymore. The position of the thinking left, from the real world rather the position of middle-class college kids who are not directly affected by illegals as they don't compete for jobs with them. The stance that illegals not only negatively affect their own (non existant) labor rights, but also the ones of others, and thus hamper any efforts to change labor conditions for the better, is something I pretty much agree upon.

[vienna]

@vienna: Just curious: Are you against the naming of the ship for political reasons, as in you don't agree with his politics, or do you think his national impact was not important enough to name a US ship after him rather than a "West Coast Guard" vessel?

As I have aged, I don't really view myself as political as I used to be when I was younger. I'm just looking for some common sense. I will vote for and support any person or group that makes the most basic sense and doesn't just sloganize and mouth vague platitudes. It seems that nowadays we elect Presidents, Senators, and Congressmen as part of a party's package deal, kind of like how we are sold wireless phones; you gotta take a whole bundle which may include some features you don't need or want. So, no, its not based on a disagreement with a particular viewpoint or party affiliation. There are a lot of people whose politics I may not totally agree with, but who, as an individual, I deeply respect and admire. As far as Chavez is concerned, I have generally been indifferent about his politics or activities. I was in middle school and high school (about ages 13-18) when he first became prominent here in California. I don't really see him as much more than another labor organizer. When held up to the contributions of people like Dr. Martin Luther King, I feel he falls rather short of the mark. He's just another of a great many politicians, commumity activists, regional VIPs who get things named after them and who will probably be forgotten after a spell. He sesems to have become the figurehead of the Latino activists, particulary the Mexican contingent, since there appears to be a paucity of 'heroes' for them to trumpet about; really, aside from Chavez, who in the Latino political community has the general public even heard of or know by sight and/or name. I'm clean out of guesses...

As far as naming ships, or anything else paid for by taxpayer dollars, after persons, I believe that:

1. They should be dead: The U.S. Postal Service used to require a person nominated for a honor on a postal stamp be dead for a rather lengthy number of years before they could even be nominated (this rule may have been changed in recent years as the USPS moves more to 'market their product).
2. As stated above a long period of time should pass before a naming honor is given (I don't think the FBI Headquarters would be named after J. Edgar Hoover if his mob connections and taste in dresses were known at the time). An exception for extraordinary heroism in military service or as an emergency responder (e.g., 9/11 firemen, police, EMT, etc.)
3. Politicians should be excluded from all naming unless they have made a very major contribution to the nation and have given their life or experienced pronounced disability as a result of serving in office. The founding fathers pledged their "lives and fortunes" in creating this nation and backed it up with action. Somehow, I don't think political longevity, party loyalty, pork barrel earmarks come quite up to the level of what the founders risked.

All in all, I really believe the UK custom of naming ships after ideals or non-human objects or creatures is preferrable and much less contoversial...

As a final note, I want make clear I am not "bashing" Latinos, Hispanics, or whatever the nom du jour might be; my parents both came, as legal immigrants from Central America (they arrived separately and met here in the U.S), worked hard to earn their citizenship, studied for their tests, and became very, very proud law abiding U.S. citizens. So, by the nature of DNA, I am technically a Latino (or whatever). By virtue of my birth in this country I am an American, and by virtue of my parents upbringing of myself, I am a very proud American. There are a great many native born Americans, of Latin ancestry, who feel as I do and have short shrift with all the loudmouthed "activists" who claim to speak for all Latinos anymore than all the loudmouthed Liberal and/or Consrevative "activists" speak for all Americans in general. I do not live as a hypenated entity or political viewpoint: Born American, live American, and will die American...

[Sorry for the mini-rant; I will now yeild the soap box...]


@TLAM: Facing the CVN Assimilator might just give an enemy great pause...

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[AVGWarhawk]

Originally Posted by kraznyi_oktjabr

My opinion is that ships (and subs if marine animals and plants are all used) should be named after:
1. geographical locations (states, cities, lakes, rivers etc.)
2. significant battles
3. distinguished military personnel (Medal of Honor recipients, admirals/officers/enlisted with extraordary record etc.)
4. elements & animals
5. after concepts like Her Majesty's Royal Navy does (which I don't think fits to U.S. Navy ships)

After what they should NOT be named:
1. politicians (except if he/she also fits to any category above, having locations/animal's etc. name as first/surname not counting)

I believe this is the best of all possible answers to naming a Naval vessel. It is my believe that naming a ship for political leverage(I did not say the USS Chavez is named for leverage)is poor. This vessel should be named USS Plymouth Rock. I don't believe their will be much upset over this name.

This vessel should be named USS Plymouth Rock. I don't believe their will be much upset over this name.

But that would be even more disgustingly radical, those seperatists rejected the church and the state and formed a commune where everyone supposedly worked for and was subservient to the common good...bloody radicals from the 1600s eh.

[mookiemookie]

Originally Posted by Tribesman

But that would be even more disgustingly radical, those seperatists rejected the church and the state and formed a commune where everyone supposedly worked for and was subservient to the common good...bloody radicals from the 1600s eh.

And they were illegal immigrants, too!

[Bubblehead1980]

Originally Posted by mookiemookie

And they were illegal immigrants, too!

I don't think so, this was not a sovereign nation with immigration laws back then.

[AVGWarhawk]

Originally Posted by Tribesman

But that would be even more disgustingly radical, those seperatists rejected the church and the state and formed a commune where everyone supposedly worked for and was subservient to the common good...bloody radicals from the 1600s eh.

Good point! Let's just call it USS Rock.

Good point! Let's just call it USS Rock.

But if you call a ship the Rock the WWF will get on your case over infringement.
no hold on they changed their name as someone confused them with the panda crowd didn't they.
Call the ship the USS panda but not that panda the other one and that will make eveyone happy.....or does panda sound too chinese

[AVGWarhawk]

Originally Posted by Tribesman

But if you call a ship the Rock the WWF will get on your case over infringement.
no hold on they changed their name as someone confused them with the panda crowd didn't they.
Call the ship the USS panda but not that panda the other one and that will make eveyone happy.....or does panda sound too chinese

PETA will get after us for using Panda.

[Blood_splat]

How about the USS Debt.

[krashkart]

Originally Posted by AVGWarhawk

Good point! Let's just call it USS Rock.

How about USS Sgt. Rock?