Did he crash or was he shot down?

Jimbuna · 04-18-18, 09:07 AM

Found this article this morning and it certainly got me wondering but I doubt the truth will ever come out

My own gut feeling is that the plane crashed.

Quote:

In 1969, at the height of the Cold War, a mechanic in the US Air Force stole a Hercules plane from his base in East Anglia and set off for the States. Just under two hours later, he disappeared suddenly over the English Channel. Did he simply crash or was he shot down?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/stories-43800089

Schroeder · 04-18-18, 10:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jimbuna

My own gut feeling is that the plane crashed.

Likewise.

GoldenRivet · 04-18-18, 12:48 PM

Between competing hypotheses the one that makes the fewest assumptions tends to be correct.

either:

an intoxicated mechanic / private pilot stole a four engine transport category turbine engine aircraft for which he was not rated, and crashed the aircraft in the vicinity of decreasing cloud coverage and visibility.

or:

an intoxicated mechanic / private pilot stole a four engine transport category turbine engine aircraft for which he was not rated; and the United States Air Force, realized that the aircraft he chose to steal was part of a critical, clandestine CIA operation. The aircraft had been left unguarded on the hardstand, while containing top secret documents, code books and other secretive information critical to national defense and security. In response to this realization, the USAF scrambled jets to shoot down the stolen aircraft.

seems pretty obvious.

frankly he's lucky he made it 90 minutes into the trip if you ask me.

I remember the first time i flew a large, turbine powered multi engine aircraft. I was a flight instructor with over 1,000 hours flight experience at the time. It was like trying to drink from a fire hose. and i wasn't flying at tree top level to avoid radar, after having one too many drinks at a party just hours before.

Platapus · 04-18-18, 05:02 PM

A few questions

1. How far is it from where he started to where he wanted to fly to?

2. What is the endurance distance of a C-130?

3. Is it even possible for one person to complete the duties of pilot and Flight Engineer to get the C-130 properly set up for long distance travel? It is an awesome aircraft, but hardly self-flying.

4. The ground crew might be dumb enough to fuel a C-130 based on a phone call, but how did this individual gain access to the aircraft while on the flight line? When I was in the AF, no one just walked up to a military aircraft on a hot pad with out a lot of ID. Also how did he get clearance to take off without a filed flight plan?

Anyone who has spent any time in the military knows that there is paper work involved for everything! There is even paper work for the paper work.

Were things that lax during 69?

GoldenRivet · 04-18-18, 10:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Platapus

1. How far is it from where he started to where he wanted to fly to?

far. like really far. Something on the order of 3-4,000 nautical miles

Quote:

Originally Posted by Platapus

2. What is the endurance distance of a C-130?

semi-far... about 2500 nautical miles. hope he is a strong swimmer

Quote:

Originally Posted by Platapus

3. Is it even possible for one person to complete the duties of pilot and Flight Engineer to get the C-130 properly set up for long distance travel? It is an awesome aircraft, but hardly self-flying.

possible, yes. but even well trained, extraordinarily motivated crew members would probably find it to be a challenge. especially if low weather, failures or other encumbrances were to be encountered.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Platapus

4. The ground crew might be dumb enough to fuel a C-130 based on a phone call, but how did this individual gain access to the aircraft while on the flight line? When I was in the AF, no one just walked up to a military aircraft on a hot pad with out a lot of ID. Also how did he get clearance to take off without a filed flight plan?

some towers are closed at night, perhaps this one was too? or perhaps he poured the coals to it and threw caution to the wind which is what alerted the USAF to the problem in the first place "hey its the tower calling, is this the base CO? cool, thought you might like to know one of your aircraft just flew the Leroy Jenkins 4 departure procedure." etc

Schroeder · 04-19-18, 03:30 AM

Guys, you are totally missing the most obvious scenario:

Platapus · 04-19-18, 05:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoldenRivet

far. like really far. Something on the order of 3-4,000 nautical miles

semi-far... about 2500 nautical miles. hope he is a strong swimmer

First of all, thank you for answering my questions. I have confidence that you know of what you post on this matter.

Secondary question. The range of the C-130 is, as you posted, 2,500. In this context what does range mean?

1. One way ferrying distance - point A to Point B
2. Max range that will allow the aircraft to turn around and get back to where it departed - Point A back to Point A

04-18-18, 12:48 PM	#3
GoldenRivet Subsim Aviator Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Texas Posts: 8,713 Downloads: 146 Uploads: 0	Between competing hypotheses the one that makes the fewest assumptions tends to be correct. either: an intoxicated mechanic / private pilot stole a four engine transport category turbine engine aircraft for which he was not rated, and crashed the aircraft in the vicinity of decreasing cloud coverage and visibility. or: an intoxicated mechanic / private pilot stole a four engine transport category turbine engine aircraft for which he was not rated; and the United States Air Force, realized that the aircraft he chose to steal was part of a critical, clandestine CIA operation. The aircraft had been left unguarded on the hardstand, while containing top secret documents, code books and other secretive information critical to national defense and security. In response to this realization, the USAF scrambled jets to shoot down the stolen aircraft. seems pretty obvious. frankly he's lucky he made it 90 minutes into the trip if you ask me. I remember the first time i flew a large, turbine powered multi engine aircraft. I was a flight instructor with over 1,000 hours flight experience at the time. It was like trying to drink from a fire hose. and i wasn't flying at tree top level to avoid radar, after having one too many drinks at a party just hours before. __________________

04-18-18, 05:02 PM	#4
Platapus Fleet Admiral Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 18,983 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 0	A few questions 1. How far is it from where he started to where he wanted to fly to? 2. What is the endurance distance of a C-130? 3. Is it even possible for one person to complete the duties of pilot and Flight Engineer to get the C-130 properly set up for long distance travel? It is an awesome aircraft, but hardly self-flying. 4. The ground crew might be dumb enough to fuel a C-130 based on a phone call, but how did this individual gain access to the aircraft while on the flight line? When I was in the AF, no one just walked up to a military aircraft on a hot pad with out a lot of ID. Also how did he get clearance to take off without a filed flight plan? Anyone who has spent any time in the military knows that there is paper work involved for everything! There is even paper work for the paper work. Were things that lax during 69? __________________ abusus non tollit usum - A right should NOT be withheld from people on the basis that some tend to abuse that right.

04-19-18, 03:30 AM	#6
Schroeder Navy Seal Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Banana Republic of Germany Posts: 6,170 Downloads: 62 Uploads: 0	Guys, you are totally missing the most obvious scenario: __________________ Putting Germ back into Germany.