Underwater range and endurance

Sniper297 · 02-20-14, 11:12 AM

I know there's been discussion about the S boats submerged range and recharge time, but I noticed the range is a problem for all the fleet boats as well.

All the data I can find indicates all US fleet boats from Porpoise to Balao, and the U-boats from type VII on, list endurance as 48 hours at 2 knots. So 96 miles in 48 hours before the batteries are dead.

Not getting that here, at 2 knots the battery is down to 50% after 14 hours, down to 10% after 26 hours. Total range about 50-55 miles.

So I started tinkering with the files;

\Data\Submarine\NSS_Gato\NSS_Gato.cfg

and

\Data\Submarine\NSS_Gato\NSS_Gato.sim

CFG is pretty simple so the surfaced and submerged speed percentages use the same datablock;

[Unit]
ClassName=SSGato
3DModelFileName=data/Submarine/NSS_Gato/NSS_Gato
HumanPlayable=YES
Interior=data/Interior/NSS_Gato/NSS_Gato
UnitType=200
MaxSpeed=21
MaxSpeedSubmerged=9
Length=95
Width=8.3
RenownAwarded=130

[EngineProperties]
AllStop=0.00
AheadSlow=0.40
AheadOneThird=0.57
AheadStandard=0.80
AheadFull=0.94
AheadFlank=1.00
BackSlow=-0.26
BackStandard=-0.40
BackFull=-0.53
BackEmergency=-0.66

40% of 9 knots is 3.6, so you have to switch to the knots dial to manually set 2 knots for the cruise test.

In the SIM file;

11:unit_submarine

Under the ranges\submerged it's;

miles=96
knots=2

Which is the correct values, but starting a career with a brand new sub diving to 100 feet and cruising at 2 knots I don't GET 96 miles, I get half that.

So I added more to the range including ridiculous numbers like miles=2500 but still don't get anywhere near 96 miles at 2 knots. Did the programmers make a m!$Take converting from metric hectares to nautical miles, or is there another file I'm missing that affects submerged range and endurance?

Sniper297 · 02-20-14, 01:05 PM

Okay, this is ridiculous. Under ranges/submerged it says miles=96, note underneath specifically says "Maximum range in miles". By all that's holy changing that number to 960 should give it 10 times the range, but it changes nothing - still down to 50% battery after 12 hours and 24 miles, down to 10% after 22 hours and 44 miles. The only thing that number ACTUALLY affects is the recharge time - the higher the number the longer it takes to recharge the batteries! Apparently that number is not consulted at all while discharging the batteries, only when charging, so the screwy thing is programmed to look at that number after you surface to calculate how many miles you ran while discharging the battery to the current level, then uses some kind of bizarre formula to decide how many hours (days!) it should take to recharge according to the number of imaginary miles you ran.

I see now why this was never fixed, some of these labels are a flaming lie.

ETR3(SS) · 02-20-14, 02:15 PM

Yeah, quite a few of us figured that out a while ago. Welcome to the club though!

Sniper297 · 02-20-14, 06:27 PM

Thanks, does the club have a secret handshake or will a salute do?

I'm a glutton for punishment (and there's nothing on TV) so I went back to the unmodified copy to look at the numbers.

S-18 has range 100 miles speed 5
Porpoise has range 72 miles speed 2
All the rest have 96 miles speed 2.

Test I ran submerged to 100 feet while stationary, then ran ahead 1/3rd until the time acceleration went to 1 with the "battery down to 10%" warning. All the boats went about 40 miles, some at 3 knots some at 4 (the percentage of full speed in the CFG files can be changed so any boat does 2 knots submerged, but that also affects surface speed and doesn't seem to make any actual difference in the submerged range - ahead slow is ahead slow). Stop and surface, without moving, time the recharge rate from 10% to 100% without moving (so all the engine power goes to the batteries instead of a percentage to propulsion).

S-18 - 57 hours.
Porpoise - 2 hours 15 minutes.
All other fleet boats 2 hours even.

The rate for the fleet boats is way too fast, should take 6-8 hours. Sugar boat, as has been discussed before, is glacial.

So what happens if I change the numbers in the S-18 from 100 miles 5 knots to 96 miles 2 knots? Nothing to the range, but the recharge from 10% to 100& takes 9 1/2 hours.

Methinks a programmer somewhere labeled something wrong, because the submerged range value has zip point diddly squat to do with the submerged range. But those looking to improve the recharge time on the sugar boats without affecting anything else might want to take a look at that data.

TorpX · 02-20-14, 09:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sniper297

Test I ran submerged to 100 feet while stationary, then ran ahead 1/3rd until the time acceleration went to 1 with the "battery down to 10%" warning. All the boats went about 40 miles....

I have seen the same thing with my tests. I didn't bother with all the sub classes; after getting nowhere with the S-class and Porpoise class, I figured I was wasting my time.

As far as why all this doesn't work, I have no idea. It doesn't make sense to me. I thought perhaps there was a hard coded limit according to what U-boat performance was, but you said they had similar endurance, so that can't be it. While the game ignores higher numbers, it is possible to reduce sub. range.

The only thing I have to add, is that the recharge times are also a function of the eng power and E eng power. The relationship didn't seem to be linear, however, and I didn't really try to pin it down. Messing with those, would screw up propulsion, and I had no intention of jacking up everything else, to improvise a fix for the batteries.

You would think they would have fixed this sort of thing, before getting to version 1.5 of the game.

Sniper297 · 02-21-14, 12:01 AM

Yeah, the one experiment I made years ago with the S class diesel horsepower worked, the batteries recharged in a reasonable time. It didn't change the top speed at all, but it changed the acceleration characteristics - IIRC from a dead stop to 12 knots took about a minute without the hack, 10 seconds with the hack. I'm wondering if SKWAS misread what did what to who (and who paid the bail if anyone got arrested) when he was programming S3D. Or possibly the original programmer of the subroutine put a comment in the wrong place.

02-20-14, 11:12 AM	#1
Sniper297 The Old Man Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Philadelphia Shipyard Brig Posts: 1,386 Downloads: 160 Uploads: 19	Underwater range and endurance I know there's been discussion about the S boats submerged range and recharge time, but I noticed the range is a problem for all the fleet boats as well. All the data I can find indicates all US fleet boats from Porpoise to Balao, and the U-boats from type VII on, list endurance as 48 hours at 2 knots. So 96 miles in 48 hours before the batteries are dead. Not getting that here, at 2 knots the battery is down to 50% after 14 hours, down to 10% after 26 hours. Total range about 50-55 miles. So I started tinkering with the files; \Data\Submarine\NSS_Gato\NSS_Gato.cfg and \Data\Submarine\NSS_Gato\NSS_Gato.sim CFG is pretty simple so the surfaced and submerged speed percentages use the same datablock; [Unit] ClassName=SSGato 3DModelFileName=data/Submarine/NSS_Gato/NSS_Gato HumanPlayable=YES Interior=data/Interior/NSS_Gato/NSS_Gato UnitType=200 MaxSpeed=21 MaxSpeedSubmerged=9 Length=95 Width=8.3 RenownAwarded=130 [EngineProperties] AllStop=0.00 AheadSlow=0.40 AheadOneThird=0.57 AheadStandard=0.80 AheadFull=0.94 AheadFlank=1.00 BackSlow=-0.26 BackStandard=-0.40 BackFull=-0.53 BackEmergency=-0.66 40% of 9 knots is 3.6, so you have to switch to the knots dial to manually set 2 knots for the cruise test. In the SIM file; 11:unit_submarine Under the ranges\submerged it's; miles=96 knots=2 Which is the correct values, but starting a career with a brand new sub diving to 100 feet and cruising at 2 knots I don't GET 96 miles, I get half that. So I added more to the range including ridiculous numbers like miles=2500 but still don't get anywhere near 96 miles at 2 knots. Did the programmers make a m!$Take converting from metric hectares to nautical miles, or is there another file I'm missing that affects submerged range and endurance?

02-20-14, 02:15 PM	#3
ETR3(SS) Ocean Warrior Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Between test depth and periscope depth Posts: 3,021 Downloads: 175 Uploads: 16	Yeah, quite a few of us figured that out a while ago. Welcome to the club though! __________________ USS Kentucky SSBN 737 (G) Comms Div 2003-2006 Qualified 19 November 03 Yes I was really on a submarine.

02-20-14, 01:05 PM	#2
Sniper297 The Old Man Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Philadelphia Shipyard Brig Posts: 1,386 Downloads: 160 Uploads: 19	Okay, this is ridiculous. Under ranges/submerged it says miles=96, note underneath specifically says "Maximum range in miles". By all that's holy changing that number to 960 should give it 10 times the range, but it changes nothing - still down to 50% battery after 12 hours and 24 miles, down to 10% after 22 hours and 44 miles. The only thing that number ACTUALLY affects is the recharge time - the higher the number the longer it takes to recharge the batteries! Apparently that number is not consulted at all while discharging the batteries, only when charging, so the screwy thing is programmed to look at that number after you surface to calculate how many miles you ran while discharging the battery to the current level, then uses some kind of bizarre formula to decide how many hours (days!) it should take to recharge according to the number of imaginary miles you ran. I see now why this was never fixed, some of these labels are a flaming lie.

02-20-14, 06:27 PM	#4
Sniper297 The Old Man Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Philadelphia Shipyard Brig Posts: 1,386 Downloads: 160 Uploads: 19	Thanks, does the club have a secret handshake or will a salute do? I'm a glutton for punishment (and there's nothing on TV) so I went back to the unmodified copy to look at the numbers. S-18 has range 100 miles speed 5 Porpoise has range 72 miles speed 2 All the rest have 96 miles speed 2. Test I ran submerged to 100 feet while stationary, then ran ahead 1/3rd until the time acceleration went to 1 with the "battery down to 10%" warning. All the boats went about 40 miles, some at 3 knots some at 4 (the percentage of full speed in the CFG files can be changed so any boat does 2 knots submerged, but that also affects surface speed and doesn't seem to make any actual difference in the submerged range - ahead slow is ahead slow). Stop and surface, without moving, time the recharge rate from 10% to 100% without moving (so all the engine power goes to the batteries instead of a percentage to propulsion). S-18 - 57 hours. Porpoise - 2 hours 15 minutes. All other fleet boats 2 hours even. The rate for the fleet boats is way too fast, should take 6-8 hours. Sugar boat, as has been discussed before, is glacial. So what happens if I change the numbers in the S-18 from 100 miles 5 knots to 96 miles 2 knots? Nothing to the range, but the recharge from 10% to 100& takes 9 1/2 hours. Methinks a programmer somewhere labeled something wrong, because the submerged range value has zip point diddly squat to do with the submerged range. But those looking to improve the recharge time on the sugar boats without affecting anything else might want to take a look at that data.

02-21-14, 12:01 AM	#6
Sniper297 The Old Man Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Philadelphia Shipyard Brig Posts: 1,386 Downloads: 160 Uploads: 19	Yeah, the one experiment I made years ago with the S class diesel horsepower worked, the batteries recharged in a reasonable time. It didn't change the top speed at all, but it changed the acceleration characteristics - IIRC from a dead stop to 12 knots took about a minute without the hack, 10 seconds with the hack. I'm wondering if SKWAS misread what did what to who (and who paid the bail if anyone got arrested) when he was programming S3D. Or possibly the original programmer of the subroutine put a comment in the wrong place.