renown system in GWX

[mauriga]

I read in GWX2.0 manual (pag. 94) that renown is given only for ships sunk, but in my 1st patrol in 1939 with a IIA I started with 500 renown. I sunk any ship (and any planes) and when I get back I awared 367 renown. Obviously I reach my patrol grid and I patroled it for 24 hours.

Tnx in advance for explanation.

mau----

[Kpt. Lehmann]

Originally Posted by mauriga

I read in GWX2.0 manual (pag. 94) that renown is given only for ships sunk, but in my 1st patrol in 1939 with a IIA I started with 500 renown. I sunk any ship (and any planes) and when I get back I awared 367 renown. Obviously I reach my patrol grid and I patroled it for 24 hours.

Tnx in advance for explanation.

mau----

Any renown that you are awarded in game is determined by the realism percentage/levels that you select.

With the release of GWX 2.0 we had meant to completely remove any remaining destination-based renown awards... as renown should really be awarded only for sinking ships... not for the simple act of following your patrol orders.

Also by removing destination based renown awards, it meshes uniformly with the new operational areas we added in the Black Sea and Indian Ocean.

For patrol areas outside the partial Kriegsmarine grid map used in SH3, patrol areas are not recognized by the game and do not yield destination driven renown.

We will very likely remove destination based renown from GWX completely with the release of our version 2.1 update.

Furthermore, as a lark, we made a handful of patrols in stock/unmodified SH3 and found a new/old game bug:

Though the files in SH3 contain a line entry for a renown award simply for returning home from patrol... no award was given... which would explain some of the renown award discreppancies that some players reported on occasion while playing GWX... as the bug naturally carried over with our mod.

[danlisa]

Originally Posted by Kpt. Lehmann

We will very likely remove destination based renown from GWX completely with the release of our version 2.1 update.

We discussed this very thing last night.

Are you ready for the onslaught?

[Kpt. Lehmann]

Originally Posted by danlisa

We discussed this very thing last night.

Are you ready for the onslaught?

Bring it on!!! At least I won't have to light my own cigarettes for awhile! LOL.

It would appear that forgetting to remove ALL destination-driven renown awards was an oversight on our part for GWX 2.0 anyway.

[danlisa]

Hell yes, bring it on. You know my thoughts on this matter. I really want this in.

Backs to the wall Grey Wolves and stand ready.:p

[i_b_spectre]

Removal of patrol destination renown, then, would suggest there would be no reason to follow BdU patrol sector orders? If there is nothing to gain, one might as well sail in search of targets in a location of your own choosing...makes exploration and sight-seeing easier and more attractive since I don't have to attend to BdU business first. That is, other than sinking enemy ships, of course.

[Kpt. Lehmann]

Originally Posted by i_b_spectre

Removal of patrol destination renown, then, would suggest there would be no reason to follow BdU patrol sector orders? If there is nothing to gain, one might as well sail in search of targets in a location of your own choosing...makes exploration and sight-seeing easier and more attractive since I don't have to attend to BdU business first. That is, other than sinking enemy ships, of course.

Not if you are a 'good' captain and follow orders as you should anyway!

[i_b_spectre]

As to whether someone is a good captain may be better judged by the survival of their crew, the condition of their boat and tonnage taken. In this regard, I can see your rationale for rewarding renown for everying but patrolling the assigned sector. Still, renown for going to a specific sector for 24 hours is a side benefit and, IMHO, worthwhile in the quest for gaining enough points for upgrades. Therein lies the incentive. I have always patrolled the assigned sector because of this...I need all the points I can get and, so far, I've been able to bag tonnage on every patrol. There are many places on the map I've not been able to explore because of the patrol priority constraint. Think less of me for whatever reason you prefer...perhaps I don't play at the same realism level as this captain, I don't sink as much tonnage as that captain, I don't know as much about how to be a good captain as the other captain. Fact is, I enjoy the game and GWX 2.0 has made it the best yet, therefore I'll keep hammering away at it with all my shortcomings.

[Kpt. Lehmann]

Originally Posted by i_b_spectre

As to whether someone is a good captain may be better judged by the survival of their crew, the condition of their boat and tonnage taken. In this regard, I can see your rationale for rewarding renown for everying but patrolling the assigned sector. Still, renown for going to a specific sector for 24 hours is a side benefit and, IMHO, worthwhile in the quest for gaining enough points for upgrades. Therein lies the incentive. I have always patrolled the assigned sector because of this...I need all the points I can get and, so far, I've been able to bag tonnage on every patrol. There are many places on the map I've not been able to explore because of the patrol priority constraint. Think less of me for whatever reason you prefer...perhaps I don't play at the same realism level as this captain, I don't sink as much tonnage as that captain, I don't know as much about how to be a good captain as the other captain. Fact is, I enjoy the game and GWX 2.0 has made it the best yet, therefore I'll keep hammering away at it with all my shortcomings.

I wasn't taking a poke at you, spectre... not at all.

Part of our earlier discussion touched on the same points regarding 'incentive' to carry out patrol orders. The decision we arrived at was along the lines of "you don't get a medal simply for doing your job" is all.

Secondarily, the decision balances out with consideration to the new U-boat operational areas that reside outside the KM grid, that do not award renown for reaching patrol areas local to those regions. In this respect it is a matter of uniformity.

By all means, continue to play the game as you wish. What we are explaining relates to the mod itself... not some sort of 'dictate' for player choice.

Furthermore, it is a very easy fix to add back in if you don't agree with the decision. Heck, we'll even tell you how to do it when the time comes. I guess my humor was a bit dry.

[i_b_spectre]

Originally Posted by Kpt. Lehmann

I wasn't taking a poke at you, spectre... not at all.

Part of our earlier discussion touched on the same points regarding 'incentive' to carry out patrol orders. The decision we arrived at was along the lines of "you don't get a medal simply for doing your job" is all.

Secondarily, the decision balances out with consideration to the new U-boat operational areas that reside outside the KM grid, that do not award renown for reaching patrol areas local to those regions. In this respect it is a matter of uniformity.

By all means, continue to play the game as you wish. What we are explaining relates to the mod itself... not some sort of 'dictate' for player choice.

Furthermore, it is a very easy fix to add back in if you don't agree with the decision. Heck, we'll even tell you how to do it when the time comes. I guess my humor was a bit dry.

Kpt., I didn't take it as a poke and I see nothing wrong with your humor . I appreciate you taking the time to discuss the reasoning behind the renown, particularly in respect to op areas outside the KM grid. Unanimous agreement on such things is probably hard to come by, even within the tightly knit GWX team. While expecting a medal just for doing your job doesn't seem right, completion of assigned tasks counts heavily on the ol' FitRep and goes toward consideration for advancement. Either way, I'm sure it won't diminish the enjoyment factor. Cheers and thanks to you and the team for all you do.

As I argued in early 2006 destination-based renown was unrealistic. All U-boat captains were expected to show up for work as their basic obligation. If a skipper did his patrol in his assigned area - but allowed a convoy to slip passed him - just being in the patrol area would not mean very much.

My only gripe with tonnage is that warships in SH3 are way under rated as to what they should be. In real life if a U-boat captain sank a destroyer he could count on not having to buy drinks once ashore with the other captains. But if he sank a BB or AC he could count on getting his picture taken standing by the Fuhrer. In my V-mod I set BBs up to 15000 renown. And that worked because I had most Allied task forces moving across the sea at 27 to 30 knots. Trying to get a U-boat to catch that force and get ahead of it was not easy. But in real life if a U-boat captain had a choice to sink a bunch of merchants in his sites or sink one Battleship with the convoy - he would pick the Battleship and it is fairly certain Donitz would have been angry if the captain had chosen instead a fat tanker.

In my own case (my mod where Germany wins) I am building several sets of files to alter renown as the war proceeds: thus more emphasis on merchants at the start of the war that later shifts to more emphasis on warships after Britain falls. Perhaps some kind of shift in the renown system might better reflect the real war too. For example, during the real WWII were their points when BdU would prefer U-boats to go after tankers more than cargo? Or were their times when troop ships might increase in value?

[HundertzehnGustav]

Originally Posted by Wave Skipper

As I argued in early 2006 destination-based renown was unrealistic. All U-boat captains were expected to show up for work as their basic obligation. If a skipper did his patrol in his assigned area - but allowed a convoy to slip passed him - just being in the patrol area would not mean very much.

My only gripe with tonnage is that warships in SH3 are way under rated as to what they should be. In real life if a U-boat captain sank a destroyer he could count on not having to buy drinks once ashore with the other captains. But if he sank a BB or AC he could count on getting his picture taken standing by the Fuhrer. In my V-mod I set BBs up to 15000 renown. And that worked because I had most Allied task forces moving across the sea at 27 to 30 knots. Trying to get a U-boat to catch that force and get ahead of it was not easy. But in real life if a U-boat captain had a choice to sink a bunch of merchants in his sites or sink one Battleship with the convoy - he would pick the Battleship and it is fairly certain Donitz would have been angry if the captain had chosen instead a fat tanker.

In my own case (my mod where Germany wins) I am building several sets of files to alter renown as the war proceeds: thus more emphasis on merchants at the start of the war that later shifts to more emphasis on warships after Britain falls. Perhaps some kind of shift in the renown system might better reflect the real war too. For example, during the real WWII were their points when BdU would prefer U-boats to go after tankers more than cargo? Or were their times when troop ships might increase in value?

well i do not really want germany to win, but the rest, concerning renown and respect from the boss... mooney for upgrades and all that... you have a VERY good idea!