Map suggestion

[andqui]

For SH5, please, please, please make the map a round globe, like in fs9 and fsx, rather than a projection, so Greenland is not the size of the rest of North America combined. Both sh3 and sh4 use a projection for the map, which means at latitudes away from the equator, distances are very exaggerated, in some cases grossly so at the extremes like the norwegian coast. I would by this game if that was the only improvement.

[GoldenRivet]

I have been a big proponent of this "spherical world" idea for about as long as SH3 has been out.

i think it is a great idea, and is one of the "must have" environmental corrections for SH5.

without the spherical world environment, "realistic" navigation becomes impossible and U-boat and surface ship ranges must be tweaked to astronomical values in order to sail a relatively short distance.

With spherical world, navigation by the stars / sun etc becomes highly accurate. and the real world distances between point A and point B also shorten to realistic lengths.

[Schultz]

Now comes a tricky part , who would put a globe in a U-Boat, you are right its more accurate, but even the ground troops used maps and charts, and in my opinion its more realistic with the maps and charts.

P.S:Maybe they should put a G.P.S in the U-boat its far easier then charts and maps (just jocking)

[GoldenRivet]

Originally Posted by infernos

Now comes a tricky part , who would put a globe in a U-Boat, you are right its more accurate, but even the ground troops used maps and charts, and in my opinion its more realistic with the maps and charts.

P.S:Maybe they should put a G.P.S in the U-boat its far easier then charts and maps (just jocking)

your a pretty smart guy apparently

dont you think that nautical charts correct for the curvature of the earth?

nautical and aeronautical charts MUST correct for curvature as a rule.

if you get nautical charts and connect them end to end while tacking them to a wall you will notice that they form an arc... they are not straight.

eventually... all of the given charts for a given latitude set - given a tall enough wall to tack them to, would form a complete circle.

see this image.

The aeronautical charts of the USA




each square represents a different chart.

notic how they follow curvature?

the curvature is less pronounced at the equator and more pronounced at the poles.

notice the greater curvature of canadian charts as you near the polar regions




even wider zoom



thats the difference betweem "MAPS" and "CHARTS"

Maps are typically Mercator_projections however charts follow the earths curvature as illustrated above.

the flaw with SH3 and SH4 is that not only was the "earth" a Mercator projection of itself, but so were all of the maps in game.

this means that the distance from Brest france to New York is nearly TWICE the actual distance in real life.

by using "charts" and a spherical world... the distances in SH5 would be true to real life, as would all of the shore lines and continental sizes, expanses of the oceans etc.

and Greenland wouldnt be as big as all of asia (in reality its only a fraction of the size which it appears to be in game)

this is something which requires critical and immediate correction for any "Simulation" series which is to be taken seriously

[Ilpalazzo]

I would love this, but I'm not getting my hopes up.

I can't help but wonder why they haven't done it in the first place? Just not that important?

[Rip]

Now it makes more sense why the Chief Quartermaster on my boat used to get so mad when guys called his charts, maps.

[DarkFish]

Originally Posted by GoldenRivet

thats the difference betweem "MAPS" and "CHARTS"

Maps are typically Mercator_projections however charts follow the earths curvature as illustrated above.

the flaw with SH3 and SH4 is that not only was the "earth" a Mercator projection of itself, but so were all of the maps in game.

this means that the distance from Brest france to New York is nearly TWICE the actual distance in real life.

by using "charts" and a spherical world... the distances in SH5 would be true to real life, as would all of the shore lines and continental sizes, expanses of the oceans etc.

and Greenland wouldnt be as big as all of asia (in reality its only a fraction of the size which it appears to be in game)

this is something which requires critical and immediate correction for any "Simulation" series which is to be taken seriously

I think a combination of both would be best. Make the game world spherical, but keep the 2D navigation maps as they are. How would you want to set an accurate course using an orthographic or winkel projection? You can't. The mercator projection at least shows a true compass course, which makes it IMO the only useable projection for small scale nav maps.

[GoldenRivet]

Originally Posted by DarkFish

I think a combination of both would be best. Make the game world spherical, but keep the 2D navigation maps as they are. How would you want to set an accurate course using an orthographic or winkel projection? You can't. The mercator projection at least shows a true compass course, which makes it IMO the only useable projection for small scale nav maps.

to the contrary, you would have to use a plotter, then correct for any magnetic variation of the magnetic field of the earth, then for any compass error of the boat.

its a basic mathmatic equation of (A plus or minus B, plus or minus C equals D)

[JU_88]

Well, what ever they have gone for now (flat or round) its gonna be far too late to change it.

[GoldenRivet]

Originally Posted by JU_88

Well, what ever they have gone for now (flat or round) its gonna be far too late to change it.

if thats the case i hope the boys over at the Grey Wolves Lair are cracking their knuckles and putting their heads together.

going to have to mod the fuel ranges right out of the box.

shame that

[ETR3(SS)]

I've spent my fair share of time BSing with the Quartermaster of the Watch and learned a thing or two about charts. This is definitely one of those things that needs to be in the game. Anything less would be uncivilized. Oh and while they're at it they should include buoys as well, and make everyone learn the Rules of the Road.

[Frederf]

Just have the course tool for the map connect the waypoints with a properly curved line and let the helmsman follow it?

[JScones]

A spherical world is more critical than wolfpacks IMHO...

[karamazovnew]

Originally Posted by JScones

A spherical world is more critical than wolfpacks IMHO...

True, but only if the entire navigation aspect of the game is done right. Things like a sextant, proper configurable base time, star maps and almanachs, real coastlines, real depths and hazards, water currents etc. Not REAL real but simulated real. We wouldn't want them remaking the entire atlantic based on the true thing ofc. If they hadn't planned on them from the start, we can already kiss them goodbye. Unless they allow us to mod them into the game. And by the way, they should also stick to using real charts, not just one big zoomable thing. It would help the sales a lot too, every man with salt water in his veins would buy it just to practice old-school sailing. And if they include realistic weather and wind, they could release a true sailing game with just a few modifications of the base game. I'd love to sail around in the USS Constitution

[GoldenRivet]

Originally Posted by karamazovnew

True, but only if the entire navigation aspect of the game is done right.

well...

hardcore navigation aside.

even if the navigation system is a bit dorked up...

your VIIC which is supposed to be able to cruise from France to New York and Back with plenty of reserve wont be mysteriously running out of fuel 1/3rd of the way into the return voyage