Re-introducing the Iron Cross?

[Skybird]

In Germany it is considered to re-introduce a military medal of honour again: the Iron Cross. After the military excesses we had, the bundeswehr lived without a dedicated honour medal for courage and action beyond what duty demanded. There was only a medal since the 80s that generally was meant as a reward for serving and improving the interests of the country and the army, which is more a reward that focuses on service time and does not make a difference between different ways to serve and "gaining honour" - that's why it is so often given to desktop workers, or to soldiers who were involved in helping out during the Oder-flood some years ago, which was dramatic in size. but courage in the face of a shooting enemy? Risking your life and commit action beyond the call of duty while under fire? A reward for example for those soldiers who some years ago conducted to the great surprise of the NATO allies an airborne rescue operation under fire on the Balkans? No medal dedicated to such things.

I do not overrate a medal. People doing their career just in order to get it, I would not trust. It is only a piece of tin, with some textile attached to it. but there is a symbolic value in it, that currently is totally missing Germany: that a person's dedication to serve the interests of his nation and his army is recognised, and thanked for. I think that is missing. And while the Iron Cross may have to bear a historical burden from the Nazi era, it nevertheless existed since longer before even WW1, and is the current symbol of German armed forces, too: painted on each airplane, tank and many ships and vessels. It has a tradition that includes the Nazi era, yes - but it is not exclusively made of that part of history.

Or as the commentator in this German editorial - http://www.welt.de/meinung/article17..._verdient.html -
said: "Dass wir dem militärischen Heldentum misstrauen, ehrt uns. Dass militärische Helden nicht geehrt werden, ehrt uns nicht. - That we mistrust military heroism, honours us. That military heroes do not get honoured, honours us not." germany has hidden behind the Nazi past for long, and evaded many unwelcomed obligations by that. But we should stop arguing that because our ancestors did evil, we shall never become a party in a war again. Instead we should pay better attention and see it as our moral obligation to make sure that we never become the party of injustice again, but join that side that stands for what is just. that society symbolically acknowledges and honours the special deeds of those who serve beyond the call of duty, is not only a question of fairness. It is also an expression of that one means it serious with that obligation.

[Kapitan_Phillips]

I hope it does come back. But you're bound to get the odd wacko who spouts "BUT TEH NAZIS USED IT!!!11one"

You're cleared to punch them in the face, Skybird. K_Ps orders

[kakemann]

This thread will soon be entertaining - I feel it

[Rotary Crewman]

Not only entertaining, but also most likely closed.

Time to get myself a snack and watch it gooooo!

[AkbarGulag]

Considering the more frequent overseas deployments of German troops, its hardly surprising that there will now be a renewed need for the recognition of valour.

[Rhodes]

In my opinion, I think it should came back, it's an old german symbol, and it's painted on airplanes, tanks and many ships and vessels as Skybird said.
Any idea as new the medal will be? The article says anything about it? Possibly the german eagle in the center?

[d@rk51d3]

Glad to see it return.

[August]

Nothing wrong with the decoration at all. It'd be interesting to see if an American were to win it whether the DoD would allow him to wear it on his uniform.

[Dowly]

Good to see it back. I've always liked the looks of it. I hope there wont be that much of a trouble from the public against it.

Originally Posted by August

Nothing wrong with the decoration at all. It'd be interesting to see if an American were to win it whether the DoD would allow him to wear it on his uniform.

I do hope that they wouldnt be that childish to not allow it.

This is again one of the symbols ppl are hesitant to allow, thanks to Adolf and his gang. Doesnt the symbol go waaaay back? I remember Teutonic Order having similar symbol?

[August]

Originally Posted by Dowly

I do hope that they wouldnt be that childish to not allow it.

Why not? Other foreign decorations have been allowed in the past. The French Fourragere and Croix de Guerre, the Vietnam Gallantry Cross, heck even I am authorized to wear the German marksmanship medal (Gaudy thing. makes me look like a doorman). Various foreign troops have been awarded US medals and qualification badges in the past as well.

[Dowly]

Originally Posted by August

Why not? Other foreign decorations have been allowed in the past. The French Fourragere and Croix de Guerre, the Vietnam Gallantry Cross, heck even I am authorized to wear the German marksmanship medal (Gaudy thing. makes me look like a doorman). Various foreign troops have been awarded US medals and qualification badges in the past as well.

Yeh, that's what I said. I hope they allow it and I cant see any reason why it wouldnt be allowed.

[bradclark1]

Nothing wrong with it. It's a German military award for valor and courage. Nothing nazi about it at all.
As far as Americans earning and wearing it. A request just has to be sent up the line I really can't think of a reason to deny it.

You popcorn eaters are probably going to be disappointed.

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Rhodes

In my opinion, I think it should came back, it's an old german symbol, and it's painted on airplanes, tanks and many ships and vessels as Skybird said.
Any idea as new the medal will be? The article says anything about it? Possibly the german eagle in the center?

No, no new thing - it is discussed to bring back the old iron cross design itself. It was designed by Friedrich Schinkel, and was first installed in 1813 - during the wars against Napoleon.

Wir brauchen eine Tapferkeitsmedaille. Muss es gerade das Eiserne Kreuz sein? Ja, gerade das Eiserne Kreuz sollte es sein. Gestiftet 1813 in den Befreiungskriegen gegen den Imperialismus Napoleons, entworfen von Preußens größtem Künstler Friedrich Schinkel, hat es eine schlichte Würde und - trotz alledem und alledem - eine beeindruckende Tradition. Man muss nur den Invalidenfriedhof in Berlin-Mitte besuchen, um eine Ahnung davon zu bekommen.

Ja, Preußen hat, wie andere europäische Mächte auch, ungerechte Eroberungskriege geführt.
Ja, dem Meldegänger Adolf Hitler wurden im Ersten Weltkrieg das Eiserne Kreuz I und II auch verliehen. Übrigens auf Vorschlag seines jüdischen Bataillonskommandanten. Was sagt das schon?

Mehr sagt schon folgende Geschichte aus: Als in der „Kristallnacht“ sich der Stuttgarter Mob johlend der Praxis eines jüdischen Arztes näherte, stellte er sich schweigend vor sein Haus mit dem Eisernen Kreuz II an der Brust. Die völkischen Helden verstummten und schlichen davon. Auch an diese Tapferkeit vor dem Feind erinnert das Eiserne Kreuz.

Es gibt keine bequemen Traditionen, in Deutschland schon gar nicht.Gerade deshalb sind Traditionen gut, gerade in Deutschland.

"We need a medal for valour. Must it especially be the Iron Cross? Yes, especially the Iron Cross it should be. Installed in 1813 in the wars for freedom against the imperialism of Napoleon, designed by Prussia'S great artist Friedirch Schinkel, it has a simple dignity and a very impressive tradition. You just have to visit the Invalidenfriedhof (a famous cemetery in Berlin) to get an impression of that.

Yes, like other european n ations, Prussia waged unjust wars of conquest. Yes, Hitler received the Iron Cross himself when having been a dispatch rider in WW1. BTW, by recommendation of his Jewish batallion commander. But what does that mean anymore?

The following story has more to say: when during the Reichskristallnacht in Stuttgart the mob turned against the practice of a Jewish doctor, he just stepped out with his Iron Cross on his chest and stood silent. The arian heroes fell silent, and then sneaked away. Of this kind of valour in the face of the enemy the iron cross also reminds us today.

there are no easy, comfortable traditions, even less so in Germany. And that's why traditions are good. Especially in Germany."

[Tchocky]

No problem with it. Always thought it was a beautiful emblem.

[AVGWarhawk]

They may want to do something about this first. Seems the military needs to get fit before they start anything about a Iron Cross. I read this a few days ago.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main...05/wfat105.xml