Western equipment in Russian weapon platforms

Skybird · 08-05-10, 11:02 AM

I read that - if I remember correctly - the Russian T-90 features equipment (thermal displays in tbhis case) produced by Thales.

I am now wondering: has this become a common habit meanwhile that Western military equipement gets sold to Russia where it is used in producing new Russian weapons? Isn't this strange? Even more when considering that Russia exports weapons to nations that the West is considering or will be considering in the future as military opponents, maybe? thermal displays are a critical item in my book representing key technology, they do not compare to French amphibious transports sold to russia, or Ukrainian fuel tankers trying to bid for the US air Force order of new tankers.

Thermal displays are one of the great advantages of western tanks that they have over their russian counterparts. Western tank constructors feature them in all tanks: the Chally, the Leo, the Abrams, the LeClerc. The Russians have them only in every tenth tank or so, even their latest models they produce only with a small fraction of tanks inclduing thermals. at least that is what I read.

????

Schroeder · 08-05-10, 11:27 AM

Money rules.

Raptor1 · 08-05-10, 11:33 AM

Hmm, I thought most Russian tank designs since the T-80 had thermal imaging sights...

As far as I know, the Russians have their own thermal sights, so I have no idea why they would import them from the French, persumably it's cheaper to import them than to make them.

As to why France agrees to sell them the sights, that could very well be because they are no longer seen as 'the enemy' like the Soviets were.

Gerald · 08-05-10, 11:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raptor1

Hmm, I thought most Russian tank designs since the T-80 had thermal imaging sights...

As far as I know, the Russians have their own thermal sights, so I have no idea why they would import them from the French, persumably it's cheaper to import them than to make them.

As to why France agrees to sell them the sights, that could very well be because they are no longer seen as 'the enemy' like the Soviets were.

The tanks are equipped with the French-designed thermal sights,I just read about it..

Schroeder · 08-05-10, 11:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raptor1

As to why France agrees to sell them the sights, that could very well be because they are no longer seen as 'the enemy' like the Soviets were.

I think the problem is not that Russia is an enemy, but that it sells weapons to countries/Groups that are considered to be enemies of the west.

ETR3(SS) · 08-05-10, 12:00 PM

Better, is the enemy of good enough. It may well be cheaper for Russia in the long run to just buy the equipment than to do the R&D for it. Also they could engineer their own model from western equipment. Tu-4 anyone?

Raptor1 · 08-05-10, 12:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schroeder

I think the problem is not that Russia is an enemy, but that it sells weapons to countries/Groups that are considered to be enemies of the west.

I know what the problem is, the question is whether the people who actually decide on these things think it's worth canning exports to Russia because of this.

Gerald · 08-05-10, 12:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ETR3(SS)

Better, is the enemy of good enough. It may well be cheaper for Russia in the long run to just buy the equipment than to do the R&D for it. Also they could engineer their own model from western equipment. Tu-4 anyone?

Raptor1 · 08-05-10, 12:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vendor

He's referring to how the Tu-4 was designed by copying the B-29 down to it's last bolt.

Gerald · 08-05-10, 12:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raptor1

He's referring to how the Tu-4 was designed by copying the B-29 down to it's last bolt.

thanks for your answer!

TLAM Strike · 08-05-10, 12:25 PM

Why not? Heck the good old AK-47 had elements of the M1 Garand, German STG 44 and Browning designed Remington Model 8 all incorporated in to its design.

Zachstar · 08-05-10, 03:15 PM

A tanks thermal sight is just a more sensitive IR CMOS sensor that allows it to do better at further IR than your average camera. It is nothing extreme it is just that it is digital prevented mass use in things other than Aircraft and Vehicles in my opinion.

Basically it is nothing extreme. A hack can turn a webcam into an IR camera that can see better in the night. Nowhere near as good as a tank sight but cameras can be hacked and if the sensor is make cool enough can act in a similar way. So it is nothing extreme.

08-05-10, 11:02 AM	#1
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 40,636 Downloads: 9 Uploads: 0	Western equipment in Russian weapon platforms I read that - if I remember correctly - the Russian T-90 features equipment (thermal displays in tbhis case) produced by Thales. I am now wondering: has this become a common habit meanwhile that Western military equipement gets sold to Russia where it is used in producing new Russian weapons? Isn't this strange? Even more when considering that Russia exports weapons to nations that the West is considering or will be considering in the future as military opponents, maybe? thermal displays are a critical item in my book representing key technology, they do not compare to French amphibious transports sold to russia, or Ukrainian fuel tankers trying to bid for the US air Force order of new tankers. Thermal displays are one of the great advantages of western tanks that they have over their russian counterparts. Western tank constructors feature them in all tanks: the Chally, the Leo, the Abrams, the LeClerc. The Russians have them only in every tenth tank or so, even their latest models they produce only with a small fraction of tanks inclduing thermals. at least that is what I read. ???? __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.

08-05-10, 11:27 AM	#2
Schroeder Navy Seal Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Banana Republic of Germany Posts: 6,170 Downloads: 62 Uploads: 0	Money rules. __________________ Putting Germ back into Germany.

08-05-10, 11:33 AM	#3
Raptor1 Navy Seal Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Stavka Posts: 8,211 Downloads: 13 Uploads: 0	Hmm, I thought most Russian tank designs since the T-80 had thermal imaging sights... As far as I know, the Russians have their own thermal sights, so I have no idea why they would import them from the French, persumably it's cheaper to import them than to make them. As to why France agrees to sell them the sights, that could very well be because they are no longer seen as 'the enemy' like the Soviets were. __________________ Current Eastern Front status: Probable Victory Last edited by Raptor1; 08-05-10 at 11:36 AM. Reason: Whoops

08-05-10, 12:00 PM	#6
ETR3(SS) Ocean Warrior Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Between test depth and periscope depth Posts: 3,021 Downloads: 175 Uploads: 16	Better, is the enemy of good enough. It may well be cheaper for Russia in the long run to just buy the equipment than to do the R&D for it. Also they could engineer their own model from western equipment. Tu-4 anyone? __________________ USS Kentucky SSBN 737 (G) Comms Div 2003-2006 Qualified 19 November 03 Yes I was really on a submarine.

08-05-10, 12:25 PM	#11
TLAM Strike Navy Seal Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Rochester, New York Posts: 8,633 Downloads: 29 Uploads: 6	Why not? Heck the good old AK-47 had elements of the M1 Garand, German STG 44 and Browning designed Remington Model 8 all incorporated in to its design. __________________

08-05-10, 03:15 PM	#12
Zachstar Sea Lord Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Shreveport, Louisiana Posts: 1,956 Downloads: 13 Uploads: 0	A tanks thermal sight is just a more sensitive IR CMOS sensor that allows it to do better at further IR than your average camera. It is nothing extreme it is just that it is digital prevented mass use in things other than Aircraft and Vehicles in my opinion. Basically it is nothing extreme. A hack can turn a webcam into an IR camera that can see better in the night. Nowhere near as good as a tank sight but cameras can be hacked and if the sensor is make cool enough can act in a similar way. So it is nothing extreme. __________________