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Old 12-15-20, 01:05 PM   #1
embraceentropy
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Default Torpedo Missing Long Consistently

I'm in a campaign and have had an acceptable amount of hits/misses given my experience level with manual targeting, especially sonar only.

I came across a Hakusika Maru about 10nm out. After plotting enough positions to come up with a target course I set myself up 90 deg off so I would be at ~3000yds when the target was in position. I continuously plotted for course and speed and everything was consistent with speed at 9kts (confirmed via 2:58 rule and longer/shorter time spans). At periscope depth with scope down, I confirmed the target was not alarmed. I prepared my solution, tripled checked everything on the PK after confirming range/bearing. After opening the tubes, PK looked perfect, I fired a two shot spread (~2.5 degrees) and both missed way long (~700yds ahead of the target). I checked everything again, refreshed my solution, fired a single shot, missed ~700yds long.

Fortunately I saved during the hunt, so out of curiosity I loaded back in. This time I used the scope, confirming speed with the chrono and scope (still 9kts), distance between omnimeter, stadimeter & sonar surprisingly close to each other. Double/triple checked, open tubes, fired, missed ~700yds long.

I then continued to re-load the scenario about 10 times, trying different parameters, contacts, PK on/off, taking extra measurements, etc. Still consistently missing ~700 yards long. At one point I went along parallel and matched speed, 9kts, entered solution, fired, ~700 yds long.

I then tried setting the speed slower & slower in the PK until I got a hit. Finally, I found that setting target speed to 5kts in the PK (actual target speed still measured at 9kts) yielded a dead center hit 3/3 attempts.

Confused, I tried the subs school torpedo mission, slapped a quick, dirty solution together (using actual measured speed) and landed a hit at the tip of the stern, but a hit nonetheless.

Thinking it was mod soup, I completely uninstalled, cleaned registry, reinstalled, and applied the minimum mods. Exact same result!

The only torpedoes in my tubes in that save are MK18s, so I can't narrow it down to that being an issue.


Mod List (in order):
1_TriggerMaru_Overhaul_2-5
RSRDC_TMO_V502
RSRDC_V5XX_Patch1
1.5_Optical Targeting Correction 031312 for RSRDCv502
1.5_OTC_Realistic Scopes for 16 to 9 RSRDCv502
Webster's Eliminate Floating Plankton
Bigger Better Protractors

What could this be?

Edit/Update: In the same campaign I went on with my patrol and came across a merchant of a different class. Did the work-up with 7kts calculated & confirmed, missed long ~700 yards. I set the PK speed down to 3kts, refreshed my solution, hit midship. I re-loaded, emptied a tube, and loaded a MK14. Same work-up, missed long ~700 yards.

Last edited by embraceentropy; 12-15-20 at 06:23 PM.
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Old 12-16-20, 11:00 AM   #2
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You appear to have a good mod list, but since OTC is "targeting", I would put it in last, just to be certain. Either that, or temporarily remove the plankton & protractors for testing purposes. You don't happen to have any ships you added to your set-up, that aren't in mod form? Any additions would not be in OTC's "database", of course...
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Old 12-16-20, 11:53 AM   #3
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I removed the plankton & protractor mods. Re-loaded, same parameters, missed at PK set to 9kts, dead center hit with PK set to 5kts.

Besides the mod list the only other modification is the 4GB patch. I haven't added or changed anything except for the few lines with unittype, eqp line duplciates, or minor defside date changes as identified by SH validator. None of the configs edited applied to the two merchants encountered during this testing.

With me simply dropping this savegame from my old install into my new install, could it be carrying around a bug from my last install that could cause this? Is there something I could look for?
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Old 12-16-20, 12:03 PM   #4
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Ah-HA!!! ding ding ding... we have a potential ~winner~!!! Even with as near of a match to a previous mod-set as is humanly possible, the game for whatever reason, finds it very difficult to run again off of an old install's Save folder, especially if on a new computer. So "yes", that would be my primary suspect now. Try copying and / or moving the Save folder to keep it away from an experiment, so that you can pull it back in later, if this test fails. Once you have the Save data "safe", delete the current Save folder, re-do all of your in-game settings etc., and try again.
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Old 12-16-20, 09:03 PM   #5
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I backed-up the My Docs folder right after I re-installed. I was able to bring it back to, basically, a fresh install with mods.



I launched a new campaign, stalked my first contact, set up at ~3000 yards, same results as before. I then re-loaded and tried the O'Kane method. The first torpedo was aimed at the front mast and it missed long. The second torpedo was aimed at the aft mast and it hit at the forward mast. While I was excited to hit something again, I was bummed that it didn't workout as planned. Especially considering the videos with folks nailing dead nuts at 8000 yards with a Mk14.



Would there be something else that could be affected by me using a savegame from my old install?



Unless there is a parameter out there that could be screwing me, I think something is messed up in my method. However, what would be the likely culprit to have such consistent misses (20X+) and being able to reduce speed by ~5kts to nail the target every time? How off would AOB have to be cause a miss like that?


The only other thing that has changed was my use of a streamdeck XL as a button box including torpedo door, cycle, & fire buttons. Nothing complicated, just emulating keystrokes with no noticeable lag.



I'm at the end of my rope with this and it is really sucked the fun out of it for me.
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Old 12-17-20, 08:49 PM   #6
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I did some more testing. I was able to figure out that my periscope shots were off because I wasn't clicking the buttons twice each time I made an adjustment.



This is still happening when I try to only use sonar for range and bearing into the PK. I confirmed the information being input by the sonar operator were correct by viewing through the scope and confirming AOB/Distance with the stadimeter. Just before firing I have the operator ping the target twice and I update the bearing & range by clicking each twice on the HUD just before hitting the button. Is there a trick/quirk/best practice when shooting only with sonar inputs?
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Old 12-18-20, 06:36 AM   #7
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I've taken those long shot,, using the attack map as of late, and, at 0 degrees and rarely miss, I think your spread of 2.5 degrees at 3000 yrds is your coblerate
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Old 12-20-20, 08:45 PM   #8
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Default Try zero spread...

Quote:
Originally Posted by yubba View Post
I've taken those long shot,, using the attack map as of late, and, at 0 degrees and rarely miss, I think your spread of 2.5 degrees at 3000 yrds is your coblerate
embraceentropy - have you tried it with a zero spread?

For a zero angle gyro shot for a target at 90 degrees, using the Mark 18 (29 knots), if the target is approaching from right to left, a Port AOB, your setup should be...
PK OFF
Torpedo spread Zero (No spread)
Speed 9 knots
AOB Port 73
Periscope is at 17 degrees relative bearing. Shoot when target bow crosses 17 degrees and another every 5 seconds...
(Once you set up the shot, you can sweep the periscope, track the target, just be sure to come back to 17 degrees before shooting.)
(Once you set up the shot, the clicking is done, you just wait...)
Range doesn't matter, I use 1,000 to 3,000 yards depending on mods
I also "double click" ALL my inputs, might as well...

If it is a left to right target, Starboard AOB, then your AOB Starboard 73, your Periscope is at 343 degrees relative bearing. Shoot when target bow crosses 343 and another every 5 seconds...
I'm not sure what you mean by a 2.5 degree spread. Are you firing one torp at zero and one torp at 2.5 left? Are you firing both torps at 2.5 left? Please clarify...
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Last edited by Front Runner; 12-20-20 at 09:06 PM.
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Old 12-21-20, 08:47 AM   #9
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Initially, when I was using the PK with sonar only updates (PK on), I was firing the first shot at zero degrees spread, the second at 2.5deg left, and sometimes a third 2.5deg right. However, all three were missing long.



When using the O'Kane method, with PK off, I leave the spread at 0deg for all shots. While I was having issues with this initially, I determined the cause to be not clicking the send button twice when setting the bearing. All good now.



I think I've narrowed the original issue down to something wonky with how my PK is being updated by hydrophone/sonar data. If I'm in the periscope view and use the menu to ping and send information to the PK it gives me a feedback, but if I double click the feedback changes slightly. I'm going to test more to narrow it down.
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Old 12-21-20, 05:06 PM   #10
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Default Good to hear...

Quote:
Originally Posted by embraceentropy View Post
Initially, when I was using the PK with sonar only updates (PK on), I was firing the first shot at zero degrees spread, the second at 2.5deg left, and sometimes a third 2.5deg right. However, all three were missing long.



When using the O'Kane method, with PK off, I leave the spread at 0deg for all shots. While I was having issues with this initially, I determined the cause to be not clicking the send button twice when setting the bearing. All good now.



I think I've narrowed the original issue down to something wonky with how my PK is being updated by hydrophone/sonar data. If I'm in the periscope view and use the menu to ping and send information to the PK it gives me a feedback, but if I double click the feedback changes slightly. I'm going to test more to narrow it down.
Interesting that you are delving into the complexities of Sonar Tracking. I'm following...
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