AI ideas and suggestions_no whining etc

[Haukka81]

So here is thread for AI talk

Just tell what you think they should do and how and when.

Maybe devs easier to get help and ideas.


And please keep "i want it now attitude off, or make this dangerous waters/ any other game posts away from here." Thanks.



Ideas ?

[VizlaN]

Slight copy-paste from the other thread.

All it has to go on is one active ping and sends a torpedo in that direction, fair enough. What is not OK is the AI from that point on knowing exactly which direction you are heading, in real time, and correct the torpedo on every turn you make. Check this by modifying "SelfNoise" and "ActiveSonarReflection" to a very low number so there is no way you are detected through that, do active pinging until they launch, then go silent and deep. See the same with surface ships responding to a torpedo arriving, and from that knowing exactly where you are even tho you made a full 180 after launching them, or turned the torpedo 90 degrees half way to trick them.
Seems to me like the AI knows exactly where you are but the devs have thrown in some randomizing on depth and distance until they have a more accurate sonar reading, in order for it to seem more legitimate. Problem is in the cases I've seen, they should have no reading to go on at all, and often "forgets" it is supposed to not know exactly where you are.

There's also a bug with AI in regards to (at least) surface vessels. If you've been detected in the slightest before(launching rockets, broaching*coughNotMe* etc.) and go undetected for a while, and they then detect a MOSS you fired ages ago, they sometimes end up targeting you for a launch even though 5 minutes have past and you've made sure to stay way outside their detection range(s).

On that note the AI in general needs a lot of work. Seeing it too often turn into an active torpedo, launch noisemakers too soon/late or not at all with no change in depth, go nose first into the bottom, or not taking into consideration that its torpedoes are just as lethal to them. Send a MOSS into a wolf pack(Just found out it is also effective vs Kiev) and watch the carnage. Also yet to see a boat successfully beat a torpedo, but don't know if that is historically accurate?

[Haukka81]

My two cents :


* What ever it takes don't allow AI cheat. EDIT- AI WONT CHEAT even now, as told in other thread. So lets keep it that way in future too.

* Keep it simple first, code AI subs first to drive and evade: If bottom is less than 500ft away, no hard dive angles > now they hit bottom time to time.

* Next tell them how to evade, if xxx feet water up or down, maybe fire snap shot and then turn tail to incoming torpedo, drop noisemaker -> go up or down and turn same time. Use more vertical movements and layers.

*Maybe ping bit less and try to hide more. (When player enters to tactical mode and gets raport "sound contact bearing xxx " it makes things bit too easy to player. Because we know too well where enemy is. Some other solution to this would be good. (maybe we should get less exact bearing least 1/3 time )

*Some random things so AI wont be too easy to make always same things.

[Julhelm]

All of the issues with AI subs is due to problems with their depth keeping. This will likely be fixed once we implement the course/depth ordering system.

[PL_Harpoon]

Originally Posted by Haukka81

My two cents :


* What ever it takes don't allow AI cheat.

I agree 100%.

Originally Posted by Haukka81

* Keep it simple first, code AI subs first to drive and evade: If bottom is less than 500ft away, no hard dive angles > now they hit bottom time to time.

Here I don't fully agree. If you use your planes/ballast correctly you can do sharp dive manoeuvres as long as you have 300 ft below the keel. Make that 350 with a margin for error. All the AI needs to do is to go full planes+ballast initially, then when you're about 75ft (a more precise values can be found through testing) from desired depth go full reverse. Works every time.

Originally Posted by Haukka81

* Next tell them how to evade, if xxx feet water up or down, maybe fire snap shot and then turn tail to incoming torpedo, drop noisemaker -> go up or down and turn same time. Use more vertical movements and layers.

IMHO the only thing preventing the AI from doing snapshots is if they're already too fast. I know they do it sometimes (example below).

Originally Posted by Haukka81

[...]
*Some random things so AI wont be too easy to make always same things.

That's a good point too (although a bit time-consuming on the programming side).

From my point of view, the biggest problem with the AI, something that absolutely needs to be done is their defensive actions. First, as I said before, snapshots. They do it sometimes, but far too rare. It should be a no brainer. It not only keeps the player worried but it will also force him to turn away, thus braking the wires so the AI can then move out of the way (which they don't do very often too) of a torpedo.
It's methods for evading a homing torpedo are also pathetic. From what I've noticed it first turns away from it (which is good), then when torpedo is close it drops a noisemaker (also good) but then it will immediately turn in a random direction (very bad). What it should do instead is one of two things:
- if there's no room for vertical manoeuvres it should wait until the torpedo starts its turnaround pattern and then turn in the opposite direction, but no more that 45 degrees. Then, if the torpedo reacquires, again, turn away from it and repeat the whole process
- if there is enough room for vertical manoeuvres it should, just as above wait until the torpedo goes around the noisemaker and then move up/down as fast as possible (planes and ballast) and turn into the torpedo. Then decide which action to take depending on whether the torpedo is where there is room to manoeuvre (for ex. torp below and room below = first action / torp below, room above = second action).

If there are more torpedoes, especially from different angles it should check which one presents more danger and fool it first, then try to fool the next one with a knuckle.
This should greatly improve their survivability.

As for avoiding sea floor, I think the technique should be simple. 100 feet below keel and diving = planes + ballast fully up until levelled. The same goes for avoiding unwanted surfacing. It will not make them impervious to torpedoes but it will at least give them the chance of surviving.


When it comes to surface vessels they should just use the first method from the two above. I think it's also reasonable to increase load times for decoys. I don't know if it's realistic or even feasible but perhaps also try to shoot down incoming torps?


PS. That snapshot I wrote above. It sounds embarrassing, but I was once trailing a Whiskey and got so cocky that I decided to move within 1KYDS before firing a torpedo. As soon as I did it he fired back (should he really detect a launch of a passive torpedo from his baffles is another thing) and I had no time to react. His torpedo hit me right in the bow of the ship. I think that just proves the point of defensive snapshot's potential.