dynamic mission objective multiplay

[suBB]

EDIT: The following is the finalized features list / new standard. Downloads are available. We hope you enjoy!!!! Our 1st attempt at the concept of dynamic mission objective MP was back in 4-22-06.

*****************

Conflicting Interests v1.0 - by suBB and MaHuJa (kage)

Features List as of 3-06-07

Downloads available:

A. MaHuJa’s download mirror, available immediately: http://mahuja.net/dw/Conflicting Interests v1.0.rar (http://mahuja.net/dw/Conflicting%20Interests%20v1.0.rar)

B. http://subguru.com/dwmissions.htm (http://www.subguru.com/), also available at subguru.com.

************************

A. Purpose:

In the beginning, this map was one big laboratory experiment. I (suBB) wanted to see if the concept of dynamic mission objective could be done on the MP level. This also turned into an incredible learning experience in editing, of which I had no prior knowledge. Now that the learning curve is behind us, we are now convinced beyond a shadow of a doubt that with the right idea and planning, dynamic mission objective is a reality on the MP level. Initially, we made it for ourselves as an alternative to DW death match MP. But as it turns out, we are meeting more and more people who are feeling the same way we do about this, and we want to take this time to say thank you all for your encouragement, support and motivation, especially when the chips were down.

B. Objective:

To create a dynamic environment, a practical one at that, on the MP level, for AI as well as human controlled platforms, where anything is possible, at anytime, with or without notice or prior warning, where the outcome is variable and subject to change at any moment. In doing so we’ve done everything to the best of our ability with the knowledge we gained in editing to do away with anything / everything directly / indirectly related to predictability, while in the same time achieve optimal in-game dynamics (randomness).

C. Installation, Requirements and Game Settings:

Installation:

This file includes Conflicting Interests_v1.mup, 3 .txt files and 18 .wav audio files.
EXtract the contents of Conflicting Interests v1.0.rar into dw/scenario folder.

Requirements:

DW patch >= 1.04

LWAMI >= 3.072


Games Settings:

Link data, wind, wave riding, current = on, rest off

Submarine active intercept, radar = on or optional by player, rest off

Air ESM, radar, cm = on or optional by player, rest off

Surface EW, CM = on or optional by player, rest off

************************

D. Features:

We would like to think of the following features included in this map as a new standard (at least) that will be followed in more maps to come from us in the future. Of course if anything else comes up in the future that can / will 'raise the bar' of this standard, then we're all for that.

1. Dynamic Mission Objective – We like to define this as any sort of random event that affects standing orders of a platform based on an ever–changing situation. At any possible moment, on virtually every controllable platform included in this map, the situation can affect your standing orders provided in tasking. It will then be up to the individual how he / she decides to accommodate the situation using his / her best judgment and his / her sense of priority.

2. Asset Management – This offers human influence over AI platforms, including air, surface and subsurface platforms. Be mindful how you ID (contact’s intentions) contacts without being clear of it’s intentions. If you ID a contact as hostile when it has not committed any sort of hostile action, AI platforms will attack and possibly violate ROE(more on that later), meaning the mission can’t be complete by both sides. If you are not sure of the contact’s intentions, ID it as unknown until otherwise.

3. Multi-Mode Capability – this map can be played in SP / MP / COOP modes and probably multi-station.

4. Dynamic Situation – at any possible moment, on every platform included in this map, the situation can at any moment affect the chances of success / failure of mission tasking.

5. Dynamic Location & Random Spawn Box – all platforms, including neutrals and bios, except the helo will be spawned on the map using dynamic location and / or random spawn box within the playing field. The AI helo will resume passive and dipping search using random search tactic, more on AI helo later.

6. Dynamic Mission Outcome – due to the level of in-game dynamics and random contributions of humans, neutrals, bios and AI, there is more than one possible outcome that can occur at any given time.

7. Dynamic Intelligence Gathering / Sharing – all of this randomness places both AI and human players in a position of possible intelligence gathering and providing it to allied platforms if the opportunity presents itself. Intelligence is gathered and ‘possibly’ shared in real-time if / when available.

8. Dynamic AI Behavior – we’ve made our best attempt at making AI disciplined, aware and thoughtful of it’s AI / human counterpart. In testing AI tends to have a mind of its own and has done things it wasn’t even coded for in scripting.

9. Dynamic AI Navigation – Without use of waypoints, all AI platforms will assume random course, speed and depth settings, which are also subject to change and are affected by the situation. I want to say the DW engine and LWAMI combat / evasion algorithms have been harnessed to work for us in this regard, contributing more so to unpredictable AI navigation.

10. 'Reasonable' Dive Time - From previous experiences in MP dives over the years, roughly 4 to 5 hours seems reasonable to us, and was very common in MP dives. Dive times have been optimized so as to avoid either long drawn out dives where map isn't playable or short-lived dives not really worth playing.

11. Use of Stealth – There are numerous possible outcomes, and the mission tasking for platforms isn’t always resolved with the destruction of platforms or buildings. In some cases, the mission outcome can / will depend on how well you use stealth as your weapon in order to complete mission tasking.

12. Rules of Engagement / Violation of ROE – Rules of engagement are provided in mission tasking to all human platforms as well as AI platforms. If in the event the situation has changed affecting ROE, changes in ROE will be sent to both AI and human platforms. If violation of ROE occurs, the mission will result in can’t be completed by either side. Even sometimes AI has an itchy trigger finger.

13. Missions Made to Justify Platforms - As far as we know, in real life a skipper doesn't reserve the right of choice of his / her platform, only to choose if he / she accepts the mission or not. Same thing applies here; platforms are assigned to you. Whether you choose to assume command of the platform is solely up to you.

14. Mission Status Deliberately left Out – in an effort to do away with predictability, mission status has been deliberately left out to try and prevent human players from plotting around unfinished goals usually listed in mission status screen. Depending on the actual outcome, a report message w audio will be sent globally to all controllable platforms.

15. Chance of Success - By default the chance for success for both AI and human players is 50%, the other half depends on you and your abilities and collaboration with your allies if / when possible. Dynamic mission objective, dynamic situation, accountability, responsibility and skill set will define your chances of success in this unpredictable environment. I'm sorry ladies and gentlemen, but there aren’t any guarantees or promises here. I’ve (suBB) had a personal experience in play testing where chance of success literally made someone emotionally upset and / or disappointed - we can't help that.

16. Minimum Safe Distance – all platforms, both human and AI, where applicable, will be required to attempt to reach minimum safe distance once mission tasking is complete. Since mission status has been deliberately left out, a message w/ audio will be sent globally announcing the actual outcome to all human players.

17. AI Situation Awareness – Depending on the circumstances we’ve made AI submarines conduct comms checks to share intelligence with allied platforms as well as to stay abreast of the situation. AI submarines will also conduct TA sonar baffle checks, hull and sphere baffle checks, as well as promote links to allied platforms when necessary.

18. AI Helo Passive Buoy / Dipping Search – The AI FFG / AI helo (not ffg controlled) in this map has been fixed not to crash since LWAMI 3.02. Because of that, the AI helo workaround includes passive search in a random fashion using difar buoys while at peacetime. If / when peacetime changes to wartime, the AI helo will not only continue to ‘drop buoys’ but will start sonar dipping search. Once the weapons start flying, LWAMI pretty much intervenes for the moment. Afterwards, and if time and the situation permits, the AI helo will return to the ffg, re-arm, re-fuel and resume combat.

19. AI Support – If contact is made of opposing forces, AI platforms will provide support if the opportunity presents itself. Support can be in the form of long-range attacks, coordinated torpedo attacks, or however AI decides to offer support. Again, AI tends to have a mind of its own.

20. Disciplined AI - AI has been made not to be too reactive especially to human active sonar transmissions.

21. AI Escort - At any given time a human 688 can rendezvous with the AI FFG escort, if not escorted at time of spawn.

22. LWAMI Compliance - We've made our best effort in making sure that this map built on this standard complies with LWAMI. This map was made especially for LWAMI, and is recommended for use with LWAMI only. This map can be played on stock DW 1.04 but we cannot guarantee quality and / or integrity of the map.

That’s pretty much it.

We hope you all enjoy Conflicting Interests v1.0

ADDITIONAL INFORMATION:

Freelancers Guild: DW Mission Objectives MP (http://www.xfire.com/clans/dwobjective)

MaHuJa’s Blog Page (http://mahuja.net/blog/?postid=3)

[Wildcat]

I had the pleasure of playing this initial test mission with 4 people today in multiplayer. Though the actual game crashed after I sank a sub with a helicopter, it was an interesting experience.

I definately enjoyed the fact that the mission was not an excersize in a - b - c type logic. There seemed to be a very nice level of freedom on how to actually execute and complete the mission.

It's my understanding that all start positions are random as well. That is something I thoroughly appreciate and it will really help with map replayability.

Basically the nice thing about this mission was that it really did not give much information about what was happening or what was going to happen. This is more realistic and I appreciate all efforts to develop it further.

Good work.

[drEaPer]

Well you want comments and opinions on this.

My opinios is that this is exactly what SCS would have done if they had the time and ressources for it. Unfortunately this a niche product and there is a limited amount of workpower. As Luftwolf pointed out many many times, this game is capable of so much more, if there are only people like you, willing to spend time using the tools given to reform the content and make use of all possiblities to enhance the gaming experience.
I welcome all your ideas and think thats its exactly what makes DW outstanding compared to SC. It only has to be done by somebody.
Reminds me of a conversation at a games company I once worked for:
After asking a coder something about some sort of missile behavior, he said: I have no clue! I just provide the tools, you guys have to make use of it (The content designers).

[suBB]

hey guys,

I appreciate the responses, and the helping hand, ill make sure to keep an eye open for later playtesting.

Found some other minor bugs and things needed to be changed - so that's done. Just want to make sure I’ve done all I can do in the editing process and solo testing(triggers) before the next round of playtesting.

I think the important part now(or when all the bugs are resolved) is actual playtesting at full tilt. Might be interesting to turn show dead platform off!?!?

Actual data will determine the overall performance and what direction to take next.

There are some short term goals(maps, infastructure, scripting) but until we gather actual data, we shouldn’t worry about those just yet.

However, if/when you have ideas for maps, jot them down for later discussion, I know I’m doing the same :rock:

@ drEaPer
Travel distance(depending on platform) is determined two ways:

1.. Arrival - which we figured at 1st < 40nm, +/- tolerance due to random spawn.. In the mission we played, the 688 simulated arrival distance - 1 way trip - your misson was to depart for sea w surface escort & weapons cold, as it said in radio comms. Win trigger is 688 to arrive and ownship survives, of course, or hostile subs intercepted and taken care of, whichever comes 1st

2.. Return to general qtrs - the requirement as a win trigger to bring ownship out of harms way and return to safety - round trip ticket :) We figured same TOTAL distance but nav/interception = 1/2 + travel to safe minimum distance = other 1/2. In the same mission the akula/kilo are weapons hot looking for 688, if she is found and sunk, the akula/kilo are ordered to disengage(if you choose to do so) and return to safe distance.

Ultimately the travel distance(1 way and round trip) should be as such to balance gameplay & real-time..we all have lives to live lol

[suBB]

can someone tell me the difference between AUTOMATIC event and AUTOMATIC goal triggers..

I dont see a difference in them, they seem to work the same way...

[OKO]

difference beetween EVENTS and GOALS (nothing to do with automatic or aggregate or destination) are just a simple thing :
GOALS will appear in the mission status, EVENTS will not.

[suBB]

difference beetween EVENTS and GOALS (nothing to do with automatic or aggregate or destination) are just a simple thing :
GOALS will appear in the mission status, EVENTS will not.

thanks for the tip OKO.. ive been having problems with triggers misfiring, but it seems that triggers work differently in multiplay than in single play mode, or maybe its the way ive been using them. Mainly aggs have solved my issues, as i been using them to provide intel to controllable platforms privately based on progression.

Also i should ask, are there any limitations on scripting and doctrine languages? i tried scripting and doc on a designated controllable platform in the event that a player is not present(2 player map) and when i play as the opposing platform, the other one scripted and doc'ed doesnt seem carry out the scripting(changing depth, speeds , course, etc)

i cant see why this wouldnt work?!?!?

[Molon Labe]

difference beetween EVENTS and GOALS (nothing to do with automatic or aggregate or destination) are just a simple thing :
GOALS will appear in the mission status, EVENTS will not.

thanks for the tip OKO.. ive been having problems with triggers misfiring, but it seems that triggers work differently in multiplay than in single play mode, or maybe its the way ive been using them. Mainly aggs have solved my issues, as i been using them to provide intel to controllable platforms privately based on progression.

Also i should ask, are there any limitations on scripting and doctrine languages? i tried scripting and doc on a designated controllable platform in the event that a player is not present(2 player map) and when i play as the opposing platform, the other one scripted and doc'ed doesnt seem carry out the scripting(changing depth, speeds , course, etc)

i cant see why this wouldnt work?!?!?

I'm not sure about this answer, but you might want to check to see if the trigger is "applied to" only one of the platforms. I think you need to apply a script to a specific platform in order to set its depth, etc. (although if I'm wrong about that, then it would probably be best to apply the script to ALL), but that it is unnecessary to do that with the trigger unless you don't want the trigger to be created unless a particular platform is being played.

[suBB]

baaah doctrine and scripting is such a pain in the ***

for some STRANGE REASON.. setfuel scripting doesnt work in MP with a event/auto trigger and script applied to object.

script was even applied to any - and still didnt work(ill try again)

Once again i bet its something im doing wrong (glances at MaHuJa)

Anyone know of a way i can script to turn off fire/smoke on a platform?

[suBB]

you better keep in touch euclid :D

Its great to see you again :up:

Let's make it great :D

see ya soon!

[Fish]

you better keep in touch euclid :D

Its great to see you again :up:

Let's make it great :D

see ya soon!

Euclid,.....didn't know the guy is still alive. :)

[hyperion2206]

Your ideas sound pretty good and I can't wait to give on of your missions a try! But may I ask you to create a version without LWAMI because the German version of the game does not support it.

[suBB]

Hello everyone,

Just dropping a line to say hello and to give an update on the current status of the map.

It’s good to see some familiar faces and to still know that LWAMI is alive and well.

Months ago it all started out with a circle of peers in constant contact with one another.

Now it's basically a two-man operation with the rest are nowhere to be found, but in the forums, hopefully.

Now for the goodies:

Here is a quick re-cap of what we are trying to achieve, and most of it is functioning properly.

(copy/paste from a previous thread in response to someone)
Cold war multiplay – I intend to make some missions where resolve isn’t just a salvo of torpedoes and two UUVs, but instead how well you strategize, undergo planning and use of stealth to complete mission tasking. I don’t think your mission will involve this feature, but for example missions like intel gathering, strategic missile strikes, recon or stealth transit will require some thought and approach as to how you plan on fulfilling your mission w/o being detected. Of course remaining undetected should make things easy for you, but if not that can lead to other undesired events.
Mission Tasking – all mission tasking will be received via radio comms for all playable platforms and not before like you would normally see. Hopefully the skipper is paying attention because if not he/she will miss out and not have clue. You would be surprised how many times people asked me “what do I do now? What’s the mission objective?” during beta testing – its right there in tasking – read it! Of course the only briefing you will receive before spawn is loadout suggestions. In this case the wolf will be tasked to locate and intercept ssbn(if you can locate it before it reaches safe distance) The sub escort will be an akula tasked to escort and protect the ssbn at all cost.
ROE violations – in this case if the wolf is tasked to sink the ssbn then wolf ROE is weapons free, while the akula is weapons hold. In other words the akula(playable) can’t litter the sea with asw torpedos and ugst in an effort to flush out a seawolf at the beginning of the mission. This would constitute a violation of ROE on the akulas part and can’t complete mission for the akula as well as the seawolf. I included ROE not to hinder a skippers' tactics, but instead to reflect what a real world scenario could be like.
Securing General quarters – I think this is by far the most critical and definitely the most interesting as its proven itself many times over in beta testing. It's one thing the bop around in your seawolf and find your target and sink it and win the game while the Russian SAG is going full bore on your sub. But its totally different to sink your target and return to minimum safe distance. And yes this can be done on a multiplayer level – It’s being done right now
Intel updates – from time to time I can have your radio operator suggest you(wolf or akula) to check for radio comms as this would provide intelligence update if /when gathered. This of course will be random events for either wolf or akula(all playable platforms)
Random events – I think this is also very practical but nothing is perfect in this not-so-perfect world including multibillion dollar platforms. Anything can happen while out to sea that can jeopardize the mission. The question then is how well the skipper handles these unexpectant events in effort to fulfill the mission tasking. OKO can simulate reactor damage, so imagine dealing with such an event(or any other unexpectant event) when you are in enemy waters.
Scripted AI – for sake of single player mode AI will honor ROE, perform mission tasking, localization, interception and attack. And if/when successful, AI will disengage and attempt to secure general quarters(reach safe distance). In this case if AI skipper is the wolf and locates the ssbn and sinks it, the AI wolf will disengage and attempt to reach safe distance, and if not that shoot its way out in the process. If the AI skipper is the akula, once ROE has changed to wartime can either intercept the wolf or thwart its efforts by buying the ssbn time to reach safe distance. It really depends on the mission designer on how far AI can and will go. If you need help with scripting there is plenty of talent here to have an answer for just about anything – so please just ask - MaHuJa has been a tremendous help getting my beta to work and is full of awesome ideas as well as Molon labe, Luftwulf and the community.. its best to work collectively if you need answers to anything
Mission status deliberately left out – The main reason why I do this is to reduce the predictability factor in effort to increase dynamic multiplay, among other factors. In beta testing this seems to be working like a charm. Reason being it is easy to look at mission status and plot your strategy around unfinished goals and this isn't practical either in my mind to do so. Intel reports will be sent privately to platfroms as the situation changes - for better or worse, if sent at all. I'm also working on interception of radio transmissions but this is a WIP.
Random spawn positions of playable platforms and travel paths – I’ve made it as such to where spawn positions are not to far from each other where the map becomes unplayable or not too close where map becomes short lived. Also you have to consider returning to safe distance, or in this case reaching safe distance. Once ssbn is destroyed the wolf will have to return to safe distance(two way travel path) while the ssbn with escort will have to reach safe distance(one way travel path)
Ambient noise detection – this is a WIP on my beta but will include detection of hull popping, or even a freak accident where your sub is making a loud noise for a brief moment of time. For example what if there was an accident in the wolf galley where the utensil storage toppled over and came crashing to the floor. The akula skipper(including AI I think) could hear that if the conditions were met As I would expect anyone to hear such an event. This is a WIP but the main thing is I want to keep this practical. Stuff like this can be done with doctrine.
Dynamic multiplay and chance of success – due to factors in an effort to reduce predictability will at the same time increase dynamic multiplay. And because of that nothing is promised or guaranteed. In this case it is not promised the wolf will find the ssbn before it reaches safe distance, its not promised that the akula and SAG will protect the ssbn if attacked, its not promised that if the ssbn is sunk that the wolf will make it to safety, its not even promised that the ssbn will fail at evading incoming torpedoes. So by default your chance of success is 50%. The other 50% depends on how well/poor you strategize and undergo planning to fulfill your mission tasking.
Missions made to justify platforms – The biggest problem I have with DW is deathmatch mode of gameplay and i wish to see something different in the realms of multiplay. In fact because of lwami and mission objective maps, these two reasons are the only reasons why I started playing again. The goal here is all missions will be made to justify the existance of platforms tailored to their optimum performance levels.Just about everything in the criteria has been included in this map and seems to be working fine.

The worst part is behind us so to speak – that being scripting AI for carrying out the same mission tasking, evasion and prosecution as a human player would. AI seems to have a mind of its own while running on LWAMI, and a more passive attitude toward the mission while running on stock. But again this was made intentionally for LWAMI.

Some minor bugs and stuff I forgot to include here and there, but have been resolved.

In short, it’s pretty much downhill from here and hopefully the last few rounds of playtest will begin soon.

Thanks again for your support(design team & the community)



suBB

[suBB]

Question:

Can you spawn a destination trigger using dynamic location? :hmm: Something tells me no but it never hurts to ask.

[suBB]

Question:

Can you spawn a destination trigger using dynamic location? :hmm: Something tells me no but it never hurts to ask.
Answer:

No... but you can use dynamic group to do it :know:

:up:

[Fish]

Question:

Can you spawn a destination trigger using dynamic location? :hmm: Something tells me no but it never hurts to ask.
Answer:

No... but you can use dynamic group to do it :know:

:up:

Good to see your still on the job. ;)

[suBB]

Question:

Can you spawn a destination trigger using dynamic location? :hmm: Something tells me no but it never hurts to ask.
Answer:

No... but you can use dynamic group to do it :know:

:up:
Good to see your still on the job. ;)
It’s good to be back on the job, Fish, not so long ago I even talked myself into scratching it and starting anew with the newfound knowledge and understanding of editing, but we’ve come too far and learned so much in the process - it just doesn't make sense to give up now, i'd say . :know:

It’s a job all right… one doctrine and script at a time. :yep:

I’m really thankful for the learning experience behind it all. That should make the next go-around less painful. And man I can’t wait for next go-around. :rock:

After this I think I’m going to enjoy the fruits of hard labor for a bit. But ideas and layout on the next map based on the criteria as well as some newfound tricks with dynamic group are already in place / WIP. ;)

[Fish]

Question:

Can you spawn a destination trigger using dynamic location? :hmm: Something tells me no but it never hurts to ask.
Answer:

No... but you can use dynamic group to do it :know:

:up:
Good to see your still on the job. ;)
It’s good to be back on the job, Fish, not so long ago I even talked myself into scratching it and starting anew with the newfound knowledge and understanding of editing, but we’ve come too far and learned so much in the process - it just doesn't make sense to give up now, i'd say . :know:

It’s a job all right… one doctrine and script at a time. :yep:

I’m really thankful for the learning experience behind it all. That should make the next go-around less painful. And man I can’t wait for next go-around. :rock:

After this I think I’m going to enjoy the fruits of hard labor for a bit. But ideas and layout on the next map based on the criteria as well as some newfound tricks with dynamic group are already in place / WIP. ;)



The workarounds, when they work, are the best, give you a good feeling. :)

[Palindromeria]

i think you have alot of good ideas and wish you luck.

my comment on the following point is a general observation with regard to mission briefings, ]

<< how many times people asked me “what do I do now? What’s the mission objective?” during beta testing – its right there in tasking – read it! >>

i recently played a stock mission in which the pre game briefing was some 5 paragraphs long. start and i come up to comms depths. got 2 more paragraphs of info regarding world politics and finally a smidge of enemy pos.

the entire 7 paragraphs could have been reduced to

"locate and sink 3 enemy ships that are currently heading your way from the SE."

[SeaQueen]

"locate and sink 3 enemy ships that are currently heading your way from the SE."

That's pretty typical in my experience. Something I read once in a Marine Corps publication about how to write good orders struck me as really important. They should be extrordinarily succinct and unambigious. All of this talk of world politics is interesting, but it belongs in the scenario notes or scenario description.

[suBB]

We really appreciate your feedback – thanks a lot!!

Believe me when I say I am taking your concerns to heart and radio messaging / tasking is not nor will it ever be a 300 page novel received from a floating wire or antenna or ELF messaging.:up:

We share the same concerns and since this is intentionally for multiplayer, as well as single player capable, I rather keep tasking / intel updates brief and to the point minus all the extra fluff. For a couple of reasons: It provides just enough information you need to get the job done and less writing on my part.

I don’t know if anyone of you have been following that thread, Tales of Danwat, but basically I posted an A.A.R. of the akula there. I’ve had previous experiences in the akula where I failed to intercept the 688, or even when I intercepted and destroyed the 688, I managed to make it within a few hundred yards of securing general quarters over distance and high speeds - I was somewhat in a hurry. Getting there however involved dodging torpedoes and buoys to the best of my ability until it finally caught up with me. I also owe the author of the thread an A.A.R. of the 688, basically the flip side of the akula’s perspective. I’ll post that one when I reach a stopping point in editing.

Check it out here: http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=101338

Also be aware that ROE is in effect on this map and conditions are provided in mission tasking for all controllable platforms at time of spawn and not in briefing when you are selecting platforms.

We’ve also decided that ROE will be apart of a new standard for more maps to come from us, as well as some other features we think are key to the experience. So in that regard, if ROE is violated intentionally or unintentionally it will result in mission incomplete for both sides.

[suBB]

Does anyone know of an absolute limit to how many triggers and scripts you can use on a map, I’m exceeding 500 triggers now and scripts at over 350.

[suBB]

:hmm::hmm::hmm:



The more I keep thinking about this, the more it keeps making sense now.

In light of 1.04 and lwami 3.04 I’d say we’ve reached a stopping point and the map is pretty much finished, and working, i should say i can't find anymore bugs at this point :up: But after what we’ve been through in the learning process of editing, things didn’t turn out the way we expected them to this time around, but still with the right idea and timing it will fly.:know:

Almost a year ago I knew what I wanted to see come into existence, but wasn’t really sure how to put it into words, or if it even made sense then. Now when I think of dynamic mission objective, ‘on the fly tasking’ comes to mind, like in fleet command, where platforms will receive basically an additional set of orders at any given moment based on the situation.

I want to say we will deliberately miss the mark on this note, because now that I know what to look for, I could code D.M.O. into this map, but I rather not because I feel something like that needs to be accounted for in the front end of the design, and not at the finish line or midstream so to speak. However that could change once 3.04 comes out because I need to see how the map will react to the new patch and mod. In the same token D.M.O does exist in the form of random intelligence that affect standing orders of playables sent by either AI or human players when / if the opportunity permits, once again as the situation changes.:hmm:

Interestingly enough, it seems we ended up creating something we best describe as ‘dynamic situation objective’. The tasking(standing orders) remain the same, but based on what happens between start in finish, under the conditions of ROE provided in tasking for all playables, the current state of the situation, and level of intelligence gathered and shared with allied platforms, those factors will affect the chances of more than one possible outcome for all platforms involved. We’ve made it as such where if ROE is violated it will result in mission can’t be completed by either side, and a message is sent globally to all playables.

In this case, mission outcome isn’t just shooting at any and everything with a tonal or an emission, although that is one possible outcome. The outcome is also destination sensitive, such as a 688 trying to reach dive point with FFG / helo escort, while RU tries to intercept. Or if RU forces manage to infiltrate the helo and ffg and intercept and sink the 688, will either the akula or kilo, or both, make it out alive... or not. OR any other possible outcome depending on the design.

Right now, all playables are spawned into the scenario with enough information to work with, and based on the choices made by players, and AI, will affect the chance of more than one possible outcome. Coding AI has been a job in itself, but we've made it such where AI will pretty much think and act as a human would, meaning checking sonar baffles, comms check intervals and link promotion if contacts are made, not reacting in haste to active sonar, provide long range support, etc. Sometimes, AI will even violate ROE.

The big question I had then was does dynamic mission objective on MP level exist? With the right planning and idea – most definitely :rock::yep::know:

And this thread is long overdue for a revision, now that we know exactly what to do - and what not to do. Plus so much has changed since then.

BIG THANKS to those who helped us reach this point and acquire this level of knowledge, wisdom and understanding.

:up:

[suBB]

UPDATE: 2-15-07

We are now entering session 5 of MP testing and the results (re: dynamic mission objective MP) are quite amazing.

I was kidding myself thinking we missed the mark in achieving in-game dynamics on the MP level, but actual data is indicating otherwise.

In short the map is highly sensitive to change of events and there is just no telling how things will pan out at any given moment, or how things will end up. More importantly everyone(AI & humans) are affected by it at the same time, and by that point it's really up to how they both (ai or humans)
react to / handle the change of events. Sometimes AI won't even follow the scripting made for it, and for what we are trying to do, that's a good thing.

I'm / I've generating / generated test session AARs as data and after reviewing them I still see evidence where an ever-changing 'small change' will affect the chances for everyone else, mission tasking of platforms and / or lead to one of several possible outcomes. One of those outcomes include 'staying alive', where ownship must survive.

How does that differ from anything else? from personal experience, most mission objective MP I've played with others are pretty much limited to one approach, one outcome, always in favor of success, omitting the chance of failure, other than being destroyed, among other things.

The presence of LWAMI 3.07 has introduced some new tricks for AI, as well as new features that are also in place and available for the next map design.

Things are looking pretty good... Let's continue on.

Short-term objectives:

1.. Conclude preliminary MP testing / tweaking

2.. Finalize Features list / new standard, credits, file for distribution.

3.. Final MP testing @ 'full tilt' / last minute changes.

4.. Final version release.

That's all for now.

[suBB]

UPDATE: 2-15-07

We are now entering session 5 of MP testing and the results (re: dynamic mission objective MP) are quite amazing.

I was kidding myself thinking we missed the mark in achieving in-game dynamics on the MP level, but actual data is indicating otherwise.

In short the map is highly sensitive to change of events and there is just no telling how things will pan out at any given moment, or how things will end up. More importantly everyone(AI & humans) are affected by it at the same time, and by that point it's really up to how they both (ai or humans)
react to / handle the change of events. Sometimes AI won't even follow the scripting made for it, and for what we are trying to do, that's a good thing.

I'm / I've generating / generated test session AARs as data and after reviewing them I still see evidence where an ever-changing 'small change' will affect the chances for everyone else, mission tasking of platforms and / or lead to one of several possible outcomes. One of those outcomes include 'staying alive', where ownship must survive.

How does that differ from anything else? from personal experience, most mission objective MP I've played with others are pretty much limited to one approach, one outcome, always in favor of success, omitting the chance of failure, other than being destroyed, among other things.

The presence of LWAMI 3.07 has introduced some new tricks for AI, as well as new features that are also in place and available for the next map design.

Things are looking pretty good... Let's continue on.

Short-term objectives:

1.. Conclude preliminary MP testing / tweaking

2.. Finalize Features list / new standard, credits, file for distribution.

3.. Final MP testing @ 'full tilt' / last minute changes.

4.. Final version release.

That's all for now.
MUCH THANKS guys…. for helping out in testing right now and your suggestions in making things better. :yep:

Changes have been made and they checked out in base-line tests. Also, it can be triggered by either human or AI controlled platforms, and is currently in place on main map. Shouldn’t be any problem in MP tests since it’s more of the same of what is currently in place and functioning. Also I made some slight changes in mission tasking and made triggering more robust. :up:

There is one small change I need to make but it isn’t a showstopper. So let me worry about that, you just concern yourselves with testing. ;) I can do that in downtime.

I’m expecting more people to pour in next week, probably to the point of multi station dives, which is definitely on the agenda.

See ya soon guys.

[suBB]

The map has been finally released and made available to the public, however this thread is out-dated and is no longer accurate in description of the map.

Please visit the following link for the most accurate information regarding this map.

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=107019

Thank you

[suBB]

by advised:

we found some issues in v1.0 and v1.01 will be released shortly.

Thank you.

[suBB]

done..

v1.01 is available for download, view readme for list of changes.

Mirrors:

1.. http://subb.bravehost.com/ConflictingInterestsv1.01.zip

2.. http://www.commanders-academy.com/forum/showpost.php?p=11610&postcount=81


We hope you enjoy!!!