Advanced Torpedo Control Beta

[Amizaur]

You asked for torpedo depth control... OK, I worked on it few hours, it works as I want and I can't find errors in it anymore, so I think you will test faster and better than me :-) Try it and tell me if it's any good.

Demo version of torpedo doctrine with depth and speed control ready to download and test. Use it rather on plain DW (without LwAmi mod) because it have no features of LwAmi mod - it's just standard DW torpedo doctrine with demo of advanced control mod. If it works, then I can include this changes in LwAmi mod doctrines too.

http://members.chello.pl/m.ostrowski7/files/DW_AdvTorpControlBet.zip

And the "manual" here, I know it's too long but I wanted to describe really every aspect of mod here, even those that are obvious :)

Advanced Torpedo Control Mod Demo

Torpedo if not touched after launch will behave as before - so after reaching enable range it will go to seaarchdepth and enable in passive or active mode as set.

If you take manual control over torpedo then it works like that:

Click Enable once - torpedo enabled in passive mode, speed set to 40kts, depth NOT CHANGED

click Enable again - torpedo enabled in active mode, speed set to max, depth NOT CHANGED

Click Preenable once - Preenable (when enabled) or nothing (if preenabled)

Click Preenable again - cycle depth between launch ---> search ---> ceiling ---> reset

So second preenable click - depth change from launch to search depth
third preenable click - depth change from Search depth to ceiling
fourth preenable click - depth change from ceiling back to launch depth and counter reset

(so fifth preenable click - cycle starts again with depth set from launch to search depth ect.)

IMPORTANT: there have to be at least one second pause between clicks. If you click fast few times in one second frame, game will notice only one click. So click - wait a second - click - wait a second ect.

P.S. To be more precise, I should write "one game frame" not "one second" pause. The time between two game screen updates can be - sometimes - little longer than a second, so sometimes one second pause could be not enaugh. After click, wait untill game screen refreshes (torpedo position updates) and then you can click next time ect.

If torpedo is actually at depth that would be set, nothing will happen. For example if torpedo was at search depth (you send it there or it enabled after reaching enable range) then first preenable will preenable torp, second preenable do nothing (would set torp to search depth but it's already there), third preenable send to ceiling ect. So not every click will change depth, if you click preenable second time and nothing happens then torpedo is probably on search depth already, just click again to continue to ceiling and ect.

After manual enable it will not go to search depth on it's own anymore to give you full control over it's depth. Of course I could left it as it was - going to search depth after enable, but you couln't change torpedo search depth at all - after enable it would always return to preset search depth.

So now after manual enable torpedo will just start search on it's CURRENT depth, so FIRST set it to depth you want and THEN enable it. This way you can set it to search on any depth you want - launch depth, search depth or ceiling.
To change depth of enabled torpedo, preenable it, change depth with use of Preenable button and enable it again on wanted depth.

I have discovered that by simple change I can give you basic speed control. Change is that after preenable, torpedo speed is NOT reset to preenable speed and torpedo continues run on it's current speed. Passive enable sets torpedo to 40kts, active enable to max speed. So if you preenable the torpedo in passive mode, it will continue on 40kts, if you preenable active torpedo - it will continue on max speed.

So if you want to speed up a slow torpedo, you have to enable it to active mode first (clicking on Enable button twice, with a pause between) and then you may preenable it if you want. Of course it will emit a ping after active enable so rather turn it away from enemy to do that :-).
If you have 55kts torpedo and want to slow it down, preenable it, enable in passive mode (once) so it slows down to 40kts and then preenable again - it will continue on 40kts.

I hope it's all clear, I tried to make my best with my english :-)

This is beta manual so I have tried to describe EVERYTHING here, so please tell me what parts of this "manual" are so obvious that not needed and I will remove them to make it shorter.

Ami

[Molon Labe]

You're my hero!

But the depth change order I observed was Launch-->Search-->Ceiling, not Launch-->Ceiling--->Search.

[Amizaur]

Grrr thay may be error in manual, initially it was launch-ceiling-search and I changed it later to launch-search-ceiling, forgot to change the ReadMe...

Yes, there was complete mess in the ReadMe - there was stated ceiling ---> ceiling in one place :P

Fixing and uploading fixed doc to the zip file.

P.S. Just noticed that the beginning was "You saked for depth control...." :-j Of course I meaned "asked" but I have suspicious that "saked" means something in english oo...? or not ? :)

[Deathblow]

Wow this is some impressive modding and ingenuity. :yep: :rock: Very impressive.

[Bellman]

:sunny: You're are an Ace Amizaur - thanks a bundle. :up:

I've been out and just spotted your post - RL does get in the way at times. :damn:

But I'm about to DL and am really looking forward to this one. :rock:

Cheers.

[Bellman]

I could hardly tear myself away from running this great control system.
Just had to come back to say how much I appreciate what you have achieved with this mod -
it really delivers the business. Very creative - great job. :|\

Many thanks. :D

[Molon Labe]

Grrr thay may be error in manual, initially it was launch-ceiling-search and I changed it later to launch-search-ceiling, forgot to change the ReadMe...

Yes, there was complete mess in the ReadMe - there was stated ceiling ---> ceiling in one place :P

Fixing and uploading fixed doc to the zip file.

P.S. Just noticed that the beginning was "You saked for depth control...." :-j Of course I meaned "asked" but I have suspicious that "saked" means something in english oo...? or not ? :)

I don't think it's a word. "Sacked" is though...I think that's what happened to the SW SSN CoC....

[Bellman]

Amizaurs new Torp Speed and Depth control Mod is a delight to use. Taking manual control performance
is as outlined and we now have a real golden bullet.

Everything works fine if you step in before the torp activates at RTE range. However I have problems with control
when trying manual speed and depth control after the torp activates. Now this may be down to my technique but
I have followed Amis instructions both with the one sec button selection delay and the order in which
the buttons are pressed.

Here is what I found on four runs of the following proceedure - SW 800 ft Mk 48 Search depth 400 ft Default ceil.
Run out speed 45 knots. RTE 2000 yds** (1 nm) Truth 3D used to observe torps ascend/descend performance.

When the torp reaches RTE it activates but stays at Launch depth.
1st push of Preenable - Torp goes to Search depth.
2nd push of Preenable - No reaction.
3rd push of Preenable - Torp goes to Ceiling depth.
4th push of Preenable - Torp returns to Launch depth.
5th push of Preenable - Torp goes to Search depth.
6th push of Preenable - Torp goes to Ceiling depth.

Now for Speed :-

Speed Reduction:-
At Ceiling depth at 55 knts order 40 by pushing Preenable then Enable then preenable (as per instructions)
torp slows to 40 and dives to Launch depth. This is even though the Prenable button has not been
previously touched in that torps run. Now push Preenable again and torp goes to Search depth. Push it again
and torp goes to Ceiling depth.

Speed increase:-
At ceiling depth at 40 knts. order 55 knts by pushing Enable, then Preenable the torp stays
at the same speed with no depth change.

**Note. I observed this post activation behaviour also at default RTE ranges.

[Amizaur]

Thanx, will check it, they may be indeed some non planned thing happening if torpedo reach RTE range and then you try to take control, have to look at code what happens then.... :hmm: Will check the rest of things you observed too, as I said it's a demo only and in beta stage :-)

P.S. Yes there was command missing sending enabled weapon to proper depth.

[Amizaur]

Everything works fine if you step in before the torp activates at RTE range. However I have problems with control



and this is exactly what I counted on ;-) that you'll help me find bugs in this rountines :)

Now this may be down to my technique but
I have followed Amis instructions both with the one sec button selection delay and the order in which
the buttons are pressed.


I should write not "one second" but "one game frame" instead. It's sometime a little longer than a second. Just click once, and wait untill next game cycle (for example torpedo enables going red in case of enable). Then you can click next time. It usually takes about second and it's easily visible that something moved on the screen and game's clock "ticked"

When the torp reaches RTE it activates but stays at Launch depth.
1st push of Preenable - Torp goes to Search depth.



There was missing command in fact, fixed ! :up:


Speed Reduction:-
At Ceiling depth at 55 knts order 40 by pushing Preenable then Enable then preenable (as per instructions)
torp slows to 40 and dives to Launch depth.


Can't recreate this. Have 55kts torp at ceiling and after slowing down with enable/preenable it stays on ceiling. I would say that you waited too short after enable, but then torpedo wouldn't slow down to 40kts... if it slowed down then it was in fact enabled. anyway I can't recreate this, could you confirm this and post exact steps to reproduce from the point torpedo is in the tube ?


Speed increase:-
At ceiling depth at 40 knts. order 55 knts by pushing Enable, then Preenable the torp stays
at the same speed with no depth change.


To order 55kts you have to enable torp in active mode, so use enable button twice (with one game frame between), not once. I have to update the readme to mention that. You remember - first enable is always passive, 40kts, only second is active 55kts. So to speed up, enable in active, then preenable.

[Bellman]

:) OK Ami I have retested with details below.

Main findings excluding activation depth:
1. Confirm speed reduction proceedure of your last post is OK
2. Speed increase works as you describe also - needs reame update.
3. After this proceedure Depth changes are out of sequence.

DW 1.03 (No additions) SW at depth etc as before.
You asked for detailed proceedures followed:
Mk 48 launched at 800 ft and self activated at RTE

Depth changes:
Torp at Launch depth.
1st. Pre - goes to Search
2nd. Pre - No change.
3rd. Pre - goes to Ceil. at 55 knts (Non active)

1. Speed reduction:
1st. Enable - goes to 40 knts (Active)
Push Pre (Non Active) NB. 4th Pre -Could this affect later problem ?
OK so now we are at Ceil Non Act at 40 knots lets speed up.

2. Speed Increase:
1st Enable - still 40 (Active)
2nd. Enable - goes to 55 knts. (Active)
Push Pre - goes Non Active. (Cumulative of Pres now 5th)
At Ceil then 55 knts NON Active lets dive -

3.Depth Change:
Push Pre - dives to Search (Cumulative 6th)
Push Pre - climbs to Ceil ( C=7th)
Push Pre - dives to Launch. (C=8th)
Push Pre - climbs to Search. (C=9th)
Push Pre - climbs to Ceil.

Wonder with the Pres whether the cumulative /reset is interfering ?

[Molon Labe]

Does this torpedo.txt doctrine file include the updated doctrine that was released as a supplement to LW/Ami 3.0B?

[LuftWolf]

I told amizaur about the problem, and I think he started making the same changes or something similiar for all his doctrines.

[Molon Labe]

I'm a little concerned that the torp mod might be effecting non wire-guided torps.

Yesterday, I was playing in the FFG with LW/Ami 3.0B and the torp mod over it; I was firing SVTT torps set to search at 800 feet, and they were doing their search patterns on the surface.

I also had a Mk54 travel 10nm to hit a Victor, but I think this is game-engine related. :doh:

[Bellman]

ML: I'm a little concerned that the torp mod might be effecting non wire-guided torps.
Yesterday, I was playing in the FFG with LW/Ami 3.0B and the torp mod over it;

Amizaurs ReadMe: Use it rather on plain DW (without LwAmi mod) because it have no features of LwAmi mod. :hmm:

[Molon Labe]

Well, it only replaced the torp.txt file...

so only changes in lw/ami to that doctrine should have been effected....

[OKO]

I'm a little concerned that the torp mod might be effecting non wire-guided torps.

Yesterday, I was playing in the FFG with LW/Ami 3.0B and the torp mod over it; I was firing SVTT torps set to search at 800 feet, and they were doing their search patterns on the surface.

oucch this is bad :shifty:
we need some test here


I also had a Mk54 travel 10nm to hit a Victor, but I think this is game-engine related. :doh:

? MK50 have only 7 miles, but Mk 54 have a little more than 10 miles of range, so I don't see your point Molon ?

And I must congrats a lot Amizaur for this great improvment.
I didn't (had time to) tried it yet, but I will do soon.
This is a very very nice work :up: :rock: ... even if Molon scare me with the problem of programmed depth at search pattern with unguided torps.
We need to dig that.

[Bellman]

Be real nice to have some further feedback reports from players who have (actualy) tried this mod. :hmm:

[LuftWolf]

If it is true that the wireguided mod is effecting non-wireguided torepdoes this is really no problem at all. :know:

Because, in the final version of the advanced control mod, it will be buried in the code for each individiual torpedo, since each torpedo will have its own doctrine.

So, for non-wg torpedoes, it simply won't be in the doctrine scripting. :up:

[LuftWolf]

BTW, everyone should be using LWAMI 3.00 Preview, if you don't mind (available at the CACD)... after all there IS a reason I released it ahead of time... so you guys could test it for me before the standard distribution goes around the world. :up:

And because I have been too busy to edit the whole 16 pages of readme... :oops:

But there is a dual purpose. :arrgh!:

[Bellman]

:D :yep:

Was holding off as the final seemed imminent. But got the message - its a 'chicken and egg' situation. :up:

[Bellman]

LW em on tests + screenies en route.

[Amizaur]

I can confirm that there IS in fact problem with AI torpedos - I forgot one command and torpedos after reaching RTE don't dive to search depth.
That's why I called it beta and demo ;-). Already fixed on my comp. I have to look on the last thing reported by Bellman yet. To answer question - the counter of Enable and Preenable button is reset to zero after the other button is pressed, so if you press Preenable 3 times and then press enable, preenable counter is reset to zero. Same for enable, pressing preenable resets enable button counter.
I'll check the second problem and then relase fixed demo of this doctrine, but it's still only demo how it works because it has no other LwAmi mod features...

[Amizaur]

I told amizaur about the problem, and I think he started making the same changes or something similiar for all his doctrines.

BTW what problem ?

[LuftWolf]

The problem of the Homing variable not being properly reset to 0 which leads to them not starting to search properly after losing a track.

[Bellman]

The torps in LwAmi 3.0 Final (Beta) are taking the first bite from old cake - em and screenies just sent to LW

They are too easily suckered and go for relatively old CMs, are spoofed and then lose the target . :hmm:

[Bellman]

I wonder whether anyone will be kind enough just to update us a little on progress. Thank you.

[Fish]

The torps in LwAmi 3.0 Final (Beta) are taking the first bite from old cake - em and screenies just sent to LW

They are too easily suckered and go for relatively old CMs, are spoofed and then lose the target . :hmm:

Hmm..just stumbled in, and to lazy to read the whole thread. But,... should it not be normal when a torp go's for a "old " decoy? When it find the decoy "before" it find the sub it should go fot the decoy. Of course it should deny the decoy when it acquired the sub first.

[Molon Labe]

It has always been the case in DW--even in SC actually--that a torpedo can be decoyed if the sub maneuvers so that a decoy is between the torp and the sub, breaking the lock on the sub and causing the torp to chase the decoy instead. If this wasn't possible, once the torp had acquired the target you might was well stop playing. This applies with or without the LW/Ami mod.

In stock 1.03, and to a lesser degree in stock 1.01, I've seen torps turn away from the target to chase a decoy; I'm generally not happy about this. If it is happening, it should only be happening when the lock on the target sub is very tenous with respect to the torp's sensor in that acoustic environment, at that range, and at that aspect angle. Strangely, I don't see this happening much in modded play, where torp sensors are generally less-capable. I add this 2nd paragraph only because I don't have your replay, so I can't tell which of the two situations it is.

[Bellman]

I expect and find naturaly that a torp at say 2nm from ownship running perpendicular will be spoofed by a cm left in its path. I do not expect that at under .75 nm with ownship acquired in similar circumstances that it will do the same, with ownship merely maintaining a perpendicular course. (Details sent LW)

In SC we can agree surely that when the torp acquired ownship close-in a cm had to be left in the acquisition cone with ownship turning out of the swing of the torps sonar leaving the torp sited only on the cm. :yep:

Futhermore once the torp has been spoofed and has burnt through, the time delay before it restarts its search pattern is quite critical. My impression is that now, tested as LwAmi but originating in vanilla (?), they are extremely lazy at getting back to work. Is this just more dumbing-down ? :arrgh!:

[Fish]

It has always been the case in DW--even in SC actually--that a torpedo can be decoyed if the sub maneuvers so that a decoy is between the torp and the sub, breaking the lock on the sub and causing the torp to chase the decoy instead. If this wasn't possible, once the torp had acquired the target you might was well stop playing. This applies with or without the LW/Ami mod.

In stock 1.03, and to a lesser degree in stock 1.01, I've seen torps turn away from the target to chase a decoy; I'm generally not happy about this. If it is happening, it should only be happening when the lock on the target sub is very tenous with respect to the torp's sensor in that acoustic environment, at that range, and at that aspect angle. Strangely, I don't see this happening much in modded play, where torp sensors are generally less-capable. I add this 2nd paragraph only because I don't have your replay, so I can't tell which of the two situations it is.

Yeah, I know you can break the lock with a well placed decoy, and the right manoeuvre. Well,.. it should work that way. :yep:

[Bellman]

:) Fish:'Of course it should deny the decoy when it acquired the sub first.''

As I am seeing it thats the problem - it is'nt. ! :hmm:

[Bellman]

:) Posted a follow-up in the LwAmi Mod thread.

[LuftWolf]

This is the latest version of the Advanced Torpedo Control Mod by Amizaur:

http://members.chello.pl/m.ostrowski7/files/LWAmi_3.x_torp_doctrine_with_ATC_beta.zip .