Other submarines

[ShipperS7]

I saw a movie the other day that featured some WWII submarine vs submarine combat. That set me wondering: Why is it that we don't have enemy subs to fight? That would add a whole new aspect to the game. Tracking through sonar instead of periscope, thinking 3 dimensionally, and basically a whole lot harder. If someone was interested enough, we could put together a mod team to add enemy subs, but I don't know how to do that...

Some experimenting, no? :hmm:

[Ultraboy]

As I myself don't know the statistics exactly, I'll wait for someone else to point out the extremely rare occurence of one WWII sub sinking another. That said, of course I count myself as one who would like to see more platforms in general, and hopefully more playables.

[Damo1977]

I seem to remember that AOD had enemy subs and torps........

[snowsub]

From what I've been able to pick up both on forums and books is that there was only One (1) actual Sinking of a U-boat by another U-boat (british) whilst both were submersed. (correct me If I'm wrong)

All others were by one submerged sinking the other whilst it was on the surface (happened on numerous occations around Indonesia/Singapore and at least once in the channel.

So in a sense the majority was a surface sinking not unlike what we have in the game (but obviously ship not U-boats).

Don't know about a Deck Gun fight. That would be interesting to see/hear about. :arrgh!:

[slow_n_ez]

sub V sub was one of he things I liked about SH2 .... especially if the other sub was starting to submerge ... you had to quickly reconfigure your torpedo for the new depth you " guessed" at what where it was going to be

[Nopileo]

I agree. Realistic or not - enemy submarine encounters were some of the most exciting moments for me in SH2. They had a very special noise on the hydrophones as well. :ping:

[Captain Strangelove]

Recently bought a book with the title "U-Boote im Duell" (H.Bendert, Mittler Verlag, ISBN 3-8132-0832-X) which tells the story of all subs sunk by other subs.
In WWII alone 88 subs were sunk that way. 26 of those were Kriegsmarine, Japan followed with 22 units. Italy lost 19, the Sowjets 11, UK 5, France lost three. USA and the Netherlands each lost one.

Sometimes the bridge watch survived, in most cases the sub was already gone when the water column had settled. A submarine hull is no match for a torpedo!

In WWI submarine losses related to enemy submarines amounted to 38 submarines by the way.


Cheers

Kai

[Kondor77]

I only voted yes because I know it did happen several times in real life. However, I don't want to see more enemy subs than enemy merchants while on patrol. :|\

[Drebbel]

From what I've been able to pick up both on forums and books is that there was only One (1) actual Sinking of a U-boat by another U-boat (british) whilst both were submersed. (correct me If I'm wrong)

But on the otherhand there where many surface attacks.

The Royal Netherlands Navy Submarines attacked 14 axis submarines and sunk 2 during WWII. The German U 95 and U 168.

What happend to U 95: Battle by Moonlight (http://www.dutchsubmarines.com/specials/special_battle_by_moonlight.htm)

Location: http://gc.kls2.com/cgi-bin/gcmap?PATH=36d24m0sN+3d20m0sW&MAP-STYLE=popup

http://www.dutchsubmarines.com/specials/images/men_crew_u95_gibraltar_nov1941_small.jpg

What happend to U 168:
http://www.dutchsubmarines.com/boats/boat_zwaardvis1.htm#6%20Oct%201944

Location:
http://gc.kls2.com/cgi-bin/gcmap?PATH=6d20m0sS+111d28m0sE&MAP-STYLE=popup

- - - - -

An interesting article on the subject is:
Submarine VS Submarine (http://www.dutchsubmarines.com/specials/special_sub_vs_sub.htm)

[jason210]

I would like to see (or hear) friendly submarines in action.

[Kptlt. Neuerburg]

The only sinking of a U-Boat by an enemy sub was the U-864 under command of Korvkpt. Ralf-Reimar Wolfram and was this subs only capitan. The U-864 was sunk by the RN sub HMS Venturer under the command of Lt. J.S Launders. Here is the http://www.uboat.net/boats/u864.htm

[Kpt. Lehmann]

The only sinking of a U-Boat by an enemy sub was the U-864 under command of Korvkpt. Ralf-Reimar Wolfram and was this subs only capitan. The U-864 was sunk by the RN sub HMS Venturer under the command of Lt. J.S Launders. Here is the http://www.uboat.net/boats/u864.htm

There was a documentary/reenactment on the Discovery Channel's "Big Science" show just one week ago, covering this engagement.

[donut]

posted http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=113519&highlight=torp+impact BTW,we encountered our first Jap. Sub on the surface,she dove,we had set PK,fired at 50 depth,& got a torp impact! splash,Amazing,no confirmed kill.:lol: No it wasn't a circle runner
Response:Payoff (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/member.php?u=214551) vbmenu_register("postmenu_519432", true);
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Quote:
Originally Posted by donut
BTW,we encountered our first Jap Sub on the surface,she dove,we had set PK,fired at 50 depth,& got a torp impact! splash,Amazing,no confirmed kill.:lol: No it wasn't a circle runner.




:o What the . . . Is this a joke?

I might need a sanity CK.:rotfl:

[FIREWALL]

I've sunk 2 Gato's in SH3 GWX 1.03. 6-1942 . First off Lorient near deep water. The second off east coast USA CA57 GWX :rock: :up: :up: :up:

[Telgriff]

Oh if only UbiSoft would release an SDK for SH3...

[Kpt. Lehmann]

We don't need no stinkin' SDK!!!

:|\\

We have good, steely eyed people here at subsim.:up: :up: :up:

[Jimbuna]

Righteo then....I'll just hang on to the copy I've just come across ;)

[danlisa]

Righteo then....I'll just hang on to the copy I've just come across ;)

Jim, you'd better be pulling our collective legs!;)

[Jimbuna]

I don't eat Kashmir curry....much prefer the hotter variety :D

[Avatar]

I once encountered an S-Class submarine NW of Scotland, his course was roughly SW. I was RTB and was out of torpedoes and the weather was too rough for the deck gun. Was upset that I had to let TGB.
I have GWX1.3 loaded via SH3 Commander.

[robj250]

I seem to remember that AOD had enemy subs and torps........

Yes. I too remember enemy submarines in Aces of the Deep Command. Sometimes they would fire at you and you had to dive quickly and sometimes they would dive and you had to reset the torpedo depth and I have on occassion, sunk the sub. I remember on one occasion there were two subs and I had to try to take both of them out.

It would be great of we had that in GWX.

Also what would be neat in GWX, is the ability to call in other German subs in the area (that would be visible on the navmap) to help take out a large convoy.

Rob

[Avatar]

"Also what would be neat in GWX, is the ability to call in other German subs in the area (that would be visible on the navmap) to help take out a large convoy."

YEAH!

edit: wow my first attempt to quote someone and turned into a dismall failure.

[robj250]

edit: wow my first attempt to quote someone and turned into a dismall failure.



It's simple. All you do is delete between the person's quotes that you don't want and then outside of that quote, you put your message. You'll do fine next time. Give this one a try Avatar.

Rob

[GoldenRivet]

i personally cannot believe that anyone voted no.

Not that submarine versus submarine combat was a major operational consideration during ww2 it was at least a threat.

Im not sure of the numbers but there were a number of british and german submarines cought on the surface in the atlantic campaign while recharging batteries or whatever who were torpedoed without warning.

It would be very frightening to be on the watch tower in your Type VII making your way through the bay of biscay out of lorient or whatever and suddenly you spot the visible trail of a torpedo heading right for you! :huh:

ALAAAAARM!!!! HARD TO PORT!!!

this WAS a constant thing that watch crews had to be aware of in some areas of the Atlantic.

[Tronics]

Once I was undocking from a milkcow on route to the US East coast and caught what I thought (for a few seconds) was a torpedo trail coming dead on from 90.

It was a dolphin...they apparently make torpedo wakes.

[Steel_Tomb]

I encountered one sub in gwx 1.3, bay of biscay, one fish = :dead: sub :arrgh!:. It would be awesome to have sub on sub engagements, I remember playing SHII online and had some very tense moments!

[Jimbuna]

I encountered one sub in gwx 1.3, bay of biscay, one fish = :dead: sub :arrgh!:. It would be awesome to have sub on sub engagements, I remember playing SHII online and had some very tense moments!

But you can.....I've had a few surface/deck gun engagements with other subs in recent times (GWX v1.03) :yep:

[Steel_Tomb]

yeah i meant underwater engagements :ping:

[Jimbuna]

yeah i meant underwater engagements :ping:

Right....got ya now :yep:

I've torpedoed some that have been at periscope level....but they've obviously never retalited in like manner. :nope:

[Steel_Tomb]

wait...you found subs submerged? I've only ever seen subs on the surface acting like normal surface ships.

[Captain Nemo]

yeah i meant underwater engagements :ping:

As has been mentioned before underwater engagements between subs in WWII were rare with only one recorded successful attack by an RN sub against U864. Other successful sub vs sub engagements were where one sub was submerged and the target sub surfaced. It would be quite difficult (but not impossible) in SH3 to sink another submerged sub, you would be able to track the target sub's bearing with the hydrophone but how would you know its depth unless of course you could see his periscope? Quite a bit of guesswork involved here.

If you want submerged sub vs sub action and you don't mind modern sub sims, I suggest Sub Command and Dangerous Waters which use up to date technology to be able to sink submerged subs.

Nemo

[Jimbuna]

wait...you found subs submerged? I've only ever seen subs on the surface acting like normal surface ships.

Yep, there are some out there :yep:
Least in my game there are :lol:

[GoldenRivet]

:yep: yup submerged subs... most of the ones i have seen are in convoys with just the scope above water.

a well placed shot at the right running depth will probably take them out

[Steel_Tomb]

I would imagine it wouldnt be too bad actually, just fire one of those acoustic homing torpedo's :up:....actually...all of them...just to be sure of a kill lol.