View Full Version : Really really Skilled Aux Subchaser (TMO)
Someone tell me if this is normal.
I'm in a campaign and got pinned under by a lone auxiliary subchaser in the east java sea. (the how and why isn't important ... Ok, I was trying out the Dick Okane targeting method and got overzealous with TC and before I realized I was tracking a subchaser the ship detected me.)
I'm in a Tambor class, running TMO and RSRDC. This damn thing has had me pinned under trying to evade for hours. I go silent, I change depths I "charge and coast" and have gone as deep as 410 feet. Even at that depth at zero knots the chaser still knows EXACTLY where I am and keeps dropping depth charges. I've even come to periscope depth a few times to try to get off a "down the throat" shot but he's always on me so fast that the torp won't arm in time and back down I go.
I'm not knew to SH4 and have had great success evading much more capable escorts so what am I doing wrong here? Is it TMO? Is it a fluke subchaser with really incredible sensors?
WernherVonTrapp
10-09-10, 09:14 AM
The Aux Subchaser is an extremely small boat that is almost impossible to hit with a torp, especially if it's maneuvering. Even if you do hit it with a torp, it probably won't sink for a couple of days.:D My advice is to save your torps. Don't bother trying to take it out with the DG either. Very small target to try and hit, and your shells will probably just bounce off it as if you're hitting a steel wall. They're very small (unless I'm confused with a different boat) so, they really shouldn't carry all that many depth charges. Steal away, any way that you can. I actually think you can outrun it on the surface. Good luck mate.:up:
Are you running silent? Have you deactivated your Damage Control Team?
I wouldn't normally go after a subchaser. It was basically an accident that I let it get close enough to detect me.
I have disabled torpedo loading and damage control team. I'll load up the save and keep trying. Thanks for the response.
Armistead
10-09-10, 10:53 AM
It's very limited in charges. Even if it runs out it will make dry runs. Course if it has charges, hit flank and turn a little as it goes over.
Is it the type with a DG or a machine gun?
With these little buggers, I just hit flank and use a lot of TC.
If its gun is in the front, get shallow as it makes a pass, using speed of course, when it passes, come up and blast it a few times, dive before it gets and angle, repeat....
Not sure, but a save and reload may respawn it's charge capacity.
When they run out of charges, I just hit flank and high TC, eventually that should rid it.
Thanks for all the advice. I think I finally shook him. (Game is on pause right now.) He did run out of depth charges. I guess I'm still wondering if this is normal though.
An Aux Subchaser who can detect a completely silent boat at 415ft in June of 1942???? I'm no expert, as some on this forum are, but that sounds like a bit of a stretch for that ship's detection abilities. Am I right in thinking that?
Bubblehead1980
10-09-10, 12:58 PM
Small craft such as an aux subchaser often had best sonar gear since its job was to hunt subs.Detecting you depends on sea state, your speed, proximity etc.Prob was a fluke but it does happen.As for being tough, well it may have been set to elite or just had a good fix on you.I've had a few tough run ins with them.My favorite was when I had to surface and instead of firing on me, the aux sub was going to ram me, out of desperation i manned the lone, aft 20 MM AA and held fire until it was about 500 yards away, then begin raking the bridge and gun area with fire. I scored many hits, the aux subchaser took a hard swing and come along my starboard side where i continues to rake the crew(saw the deck crew fall down from being hit) and then turned my fire to the depth charge rack, which exploded.The ship just kept sailing in a straight line and never came back.My diesels were destroyed from depth charges so had to quit that career but it was fun.If only had an abandon ship/scuttle ship option....
I posted a thread on this a few months ago with some SS, cant find it and deleted the SS.
Anyway, point of that is even the small boys can be tough.
WernherVonTrapp
10-09-10, 06:26 PM
Here's one that I was lucky enough to have hit with a torp. It was just outside of Taipei Harbor and was less than 3500yds away, heading on a steady course to the location where I just sank a Large Modern Passenger freighter. The last photo came to be it's final resting place. It never really sank completely. Even though it was submerged just under the waves, I nearly hit it after returning from Taipei harbor and could still lock onto it with my periscope. It took a long time between the torpedo impact and it's final submerged state. I don't know how the 5" DG will fare but, I hit one that was docked with at least a half dozen 3" shells, only to watch them bounce harmlessly off the boat.
http://i1045.photobucket.com/albums/b456/archangel501/subchaser/subchaser1.jpg
http://i1045.photobucket.com/albums/b456/archangel501/subchaser/subchaser2.jpg
http://i1045.photobucket.com/albums/b456/archangel501/subchaser/subchaser3.jpg
http://i1045.photobucket.com/albums/b456/archangel501/subchaser/subchaser4.jpg
ElAurens
10-10-10, 04:39 PM
Main deck gun shells bouncing off a wooden boat simply points to poor damage modeling.
Does anyone really think a wooden hulled boat could survive for long when hit by high explosive naval artillery shells?
Bubblehead1980
10-10-10, 04:47 PM
Main deck gun shells bouncing off a wooden boat simply points to poor damage modeling.
Does anyone really think a wooden hulled boat could survive for long when hit by high explosive naval artillery shells?
You would not think so BUT in multiple accounts I've read by famous war time skippers like Fluckey, O Kane, etc etcc They all mention using their 4 inch deck gun as well as 40 and 20 MM to just blast small wooden fishing boats etc to crap and the boats just wouldnt sink, theyd burn but wouldnt sink.I think they should catch fire easier in the game but sink easier, not sure given the RL accounts.
I think a torpedo on the other hand should just decimate a small craft, as it would in real life.
The Cha-1 DM is likely a little screwy. To be honest I didn't know what I was doing back then, and it needs a 2.0 version.
Since I never saw one in game, it didn't seem critical.
Bubblehead1980
10-10-10, 04:57 PM
The Cha-1 DM is likely a little screwy. To be honest I didn't know what I was doing back then, and it needs a 2.0 version.
Since I never saw one in game, it didn't seem critical.
I saw it once in "Tokyo Bay" on patrol, was on a submerged patrol, attacked a tanker leaving port and the Cha-1 raced over after I blew the tanker up, pesky thing stayed on me for 6 hours, landed two close charges which damaged both periscopes and two bow tubes. Finally lost it and cleared the area.An upgrade would be cool.
Cha-1 is good as a coastal escort for lone merchants or tankers escorting coastal ships/tankers.I remember in Clear the Bridge! one of Tang's patrols, she dealt with the small escorts constantly in the shallows off the home islands.
WernherVonTrapp
10-13-10, 02:30 PM
The Cha-1 DM is likely a little screwy. To be honest I didn't know what I was doing back then, and it needs a 2.0 version.
Since I never saw one in game, it didn't seem critical.If the boat in my pics is the Cha-1, I've hit those suckers with torps on 3 different occasions and not one of them ever sunk. They just seem to bob slighly below the water-line. Neutralized for sure but never sunk with credit. I don't even try to take them out with the DG anymore. Tried two times already but to no avail.:hmmm:
The vessel I'm talking about is not the Cha-1. It's the subchaser. You definitely can sink the subchasers. I've done it. Can't speak for the Cha-1
I was responding to the images of the cha-1.
Castout
10-14-10, 01:13 PM
Thanks for all the advice. I think I finally shook him. (Game is on pause right now.) He did run out of depth charges. I guess I'm still wondering if this is normal though.
An Aux Subchaser who can detect a completely silent boat at 415ft in June of 1942???? I'm no expert, as some on this forum are, but that sounds like a bit of a stretch for that ship's detection abilities. Am I right in thinking that?
I share your sentiment . . . . .
I couldn't approach a convoy I sighted in my current campaign without 4 small patrol boats waay smaller than destroyer detected me first from far far away at night.
It was so ridiculous that I installed easy AI for TMO 2.0 :damn:
Japanese ASW capabilty was supposed to be horrible during most of the war period . . . .
Bubblehead1980
10-14-10, 04:02 PM
I share your sentiment . . . . .
I couldn't approach a convoy I sighted in my current campaign without 4 small patrol boats waay smaller than destroyer detected me first from far far away at night.
It was so ridiculous that I installed easy AI for TMO 2.0 :damn:
Japanese ASW capabilty was supposed to be horrible during most of the war period . . . .
TMO is meant to be difficult and Japanese ASW was not as horrible as some have said.... the 52 submarines lost and multiple others badly damaged...Billfish, Halibut, Drum etc etc are an example of their effectiveness. Japanese ASW just wasnt up to par with Allied, but it wasnt terrible.Their main issue is they gave up too early and didnt stay in the hunt.
Ducimus was great enough to provide the easier AI patch for those that found it too difficult, which was nice of him.Personally I've played TMO long enough, they are a challenge but nothing like when first start.
There is a mod, I forgot who put it out, what it does is nerfs their super ability to detect you before they are alerted, still use passive but not like normal, once alerted they are the tough TMO escorts everyone "loves", I used it a while but found getting inside a convoy screen way too easy with it. The mod was called "AI Fix" may be able to find it on here.
The primary reason US boats got off lucky at the start was the IJN DC depth settings. 30m and 60m. Later versions of the early (type 95) added a 90m setting.
They were not aimed in depth, but instead dropped in patterns of depth settings. This is impossible in SH4. Escorts always set the depth of the charges, overriding all other settings given the DCs.
Castout
10-14-10, 07:32 PM
TMO is meant to be difficult and Japanese ASW was not as horrible as some have said.... the 52 submarines lost and multiple others badly damaged...Billfish, Halibut, Drum etc etc are an example of their effectiveness. Japanese ASW just wasnt up to par with Allied, but it wasnt terrible.Their main issue is they gave up too early and didnt stay in the hunt.
Ducimus was great enough to provide the easier AI patch for those that found it too difficult, which was nice of him.Personally I've played TMO long enough, they are a challenge but nothing like when first start.
There is a mod, I forgot who put it out, what it does is nerfs their super ability to detect you before they are alerted, still use passive but not like normal, once alerted they are the tough TMO escorts everyone "loves", I used it a while but found getting inside a convoy screen way too easy with it. The mod was called "AI Fix" may be able to find it on here.
I'm not saying TMO sucks, it's my primary reason of still plyaing SHIV :salute:.
I'll do a search on 'AI fix' for TMO. Thanks for the heads up.
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