[REQ] Medals & Ranks?

[Tigrone]

Has anyone looked at the, yuk, medals and , shudder, ranks? The ranks are not accurate at all for the time. The medals are just cracker jack box trinkets.

Can we lose the 2 top Chiefs, these ranks did not exist then, and gain a Lt. Commander and a Warrant? Probably not though, these are probably hard coded, but could the 2 senior Chiefs become Warrants 1 & 2, if there have to be 9 enlisted ranks?

The seaman ratings are not quite right either .

The medals:
Campaign Star look vaugly familiar but I don't have clue what it is.
The Submarine Service medal looks sort of like commendation
The Medal of Valor looks a lot like a Soviet Order of Glory
The Victory Cross looks most like a George Cross
The Wound Medal is simply a generic Purple Heart like thing without George.
The Patrol Star models a Silver Star pretty closely.

I wonder if some one official objected to real US decorations being used? I think this kind of thing is just childish.

[Sheppard]

Or perhaps they didn't do that much research?

[Aimbot]

Is childish the right word when we all spend so much time pretending to be submarine skippers?

[elanaiba]

Or perhaps they didn't do that much research?

Right....

[Barkhorn1x]

There are no rules that I know of restricting the depiction of actual medals - and dozens of games have them. Some are even NAMED after the medal!

No offense devs., but what we were given is not very close to historical accuracy.

[Barkhorn1x]

Is childish the right word when we all spend so much time pretending to be submarine skippers?

Not as long as you are doing it in a historical context!!

;)

[Dowly]

You can always mod the medals to your liking. I dont know why the devs decided to do what they did with the medals, but in the end, could someone show me a agreement signed by the devs that EVERYTHING in the game will be historically accurate?

[Barkhorn1x]

You can always mod the medals to your liking. I dont know why the devs decided to do what they did with the medals, but in the end, could someone show me a agreement signed by the devs that EVERYTHING in the game will be historically accurate?

Point taken...BUT (and you KNEW there would be)...these are medals that are pretty easily researched and reproduced. I don't know about you but when I do something heroic in game for country "X" , I want to be awarded the appropriate decoration. So...give me a US Navy Cross that looks like an actual US Navy cross - not some lame generic version.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Navy_Cross

BTW, if I were a graphic artist I wouldn't be posting about it working on a fix.

[Dowly]

Yeh, I get your point. I´m not familiar with the US Navy medals, so I cant really know which should be which in SHIV. I could change them for you, but I need to know which medals I need to use.

I know the Purple Heart doesnt have the start, but the guy. I think I know which one should be the Navy Cross, but the other´s are odd to me.

So, if you could PM me a detailed list of the names of the actual medals and their counterparts in the game, I would be more than happy to make the mod. :up:

[Barkhorn1x]

Dowly has graciously volunteered to do a medal pack. We discussed and thought the best way to proceed was to put a list together of existing awards - and what they should be - and issue for comment from the forum before Dowly get's started.

So...I did some research - did not take long - and I present to you the following list:


1. Campaign Star = American Campaign Medal
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Campaign_Medal

2. The Submarine Service medal = there wasn’t any so let’s substitute the Navy Good Conduct medal
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:GoodConductMedals.jpg

3. The Medal of Valor = Navy Distinguished Service Medal
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Navy_Distinguished_Service_Medal

4. Victory Cross = Navy Cross
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Navy_Cross

5. The Wound Medal = authentic Purple Heart
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Purple_Heart

6. The Patrol Star = authentic Silver Star
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silver_Star


These are existing awards - I believe we need to add a couple - see below - but we will have to modify the actual award structure. Can anyone assist w/ that task?


Need to add:
a. Congressional Medal of Honor = Navy version
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Congressional_Medal_of_Honor (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Congressional_Medal_of_Honor)

B. Bronze Star
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bronze_Star_Medal


Thanks.

[Lukemb]

The real US Navy medals are here:

C:\SH4 folder\Data\Menu\Gui\Medals

The fake medals are here:

C:\SH4 folder\Data\Menu\Data

located in 2 files:
AwardsItems_1.dds
AwardsItems_2.dds

You might be able to use a DDS graphics editor to copy and paste the real ones on the 2 files the game is using.

Hope this helps.

[Barkhorn1x]

The real US Navy medals are here:

C:\SH4 folder\Data\Menu\Gui\Medals

The fake medals are here:

C:\SH4 folder\Data\Menu\Data

located in 2 files:
AwardsItems_1.dds
AwardsItems_2.dds

You might be able to use a DDS graphics editor to copy and paste the real ones on the 2 files the game is using.

Hope this helps.

Not sure I follow - there are actually 2 sets of medals? Authentic and not?

Please confirm.

[Spadefish]

Dowly has graciously volunteered to do a medal pack. We discussed and thought the best way to proceed was to put a list together of existing awards - and what they should be - and issue for comment from the forum before Dowly get's started.

So...I did some research - did not take long - and I present to you the following list:


1. Campaign Star = American Campaign Medal
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Campaign_Medal

2. The Submarine Service medal = there wasn’t any so let’s substitute the Navy Good Conduct medal
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:GoodConductMedals.jpg

3. The Medal of Valor = Navy Distinguished Service Medal
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Navy_Distinguished_Service_Medal

4. Victory Cross = Navy Cross
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Navy_Cross

5. The Wound Medal = authentic Purple Heart
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Purple_Heart

6. The Patrol Star = authentic Silver Star
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silver_Star


These are existing awards - I believe we need to add a couple - see below - but we will have to modify the actual award structure. Can anyone assist w/ that task?


Need to add:
a. Congressional Medal of Honor = Navy version
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Congressional_Medal_of_Honor (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Congressional_Medal_of_Honor)

B. Bronze Star
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bronze_Star_Medal


Thanks.

The campaign medal should be the Asiatic-Pacific Theater Campaign Medal.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asiatic-Pacific_Theater_Campaign_Medal

And I believe that since 'Dolphins' symbolise sub service maybe the Navy Commendation Medal w/ bronze 'V' device for valor can be substituted for the Submarine Service Medal.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Navy_Commendation_Medal

[Lukemb]

The real US Navy medals are here:

C:\SH4 folder\Data\Menu\Gui\Medals

The fake medals are here:

C:\SH4 folder\Data\Menu\Data

located in 2 files:
AwardsItems_1.dds
AwardsItems_2.dds

You might be able to use a DDS graphics editor to copy and paste the real ones on the 2 files the game is using.

Hope this helps.
Not sure I follow - there are actually 2 sets of medals? Authentic and not?

Please confirm.

Yes, there's a file with the graphics of the real life US medals that is not currently implemented in the game.

Probably the DEVs created that file/graphics to be used in a future patch or to be used as a Mod.

The medals currently used in SH4 1.1 do not exist in real life.

[Zero Niner]

Strange. Why go through all the trouble to research and produce the graphic images, and *not* use them, whilst expend further effort to come up with generic ones?
There's more to this than meets the eye... :hmm:

[GoldenRivet]

Im all for a mod like that - the medals in the game are pretty fictional.

[Tigrone]

I think many of the things we think are oversights are actually intended for some reason. Someone spent time and effort developing them. But, why? It seems very arbitrary. Why the fake US medals if real ones are there?

The real US Navy medals are here:

C:\SH4 folder\Data\Menu\Gui\Medals

The fake medals are here:

C:\SH4 folder\Data\Menu\Data

located in 2 files:
AwardsItems_1.dds
AwardsItems_2.dds

You might be able to use a DDS graphics editor to copy and paste the real ones on the 2 files the game is using.

Hope this helps.

[Lukemb]

I agree with you Tigrone, too early to speculate on the reason why they included the real medals but for now the game is using the fictional ones.

>>> An update,

last night I found 2 more sets of fiction medals, they are located in:

\Data\Textures\TLowRes\tex\badges.dds

and

\Data\Textures\TNormal\tex\badges.dds

this files seem to be compatible with real medals file.

Over the weekend I'll try to substitute the files with the fictional medals with the real ones and see if the medals can be displayed correctly on the game.

[fullmetaledges]

I agree with you Tigrone, too early to speculate on the reason why they included the real medals but for now the game is using the fictional ones.

>>> An update,

last night I found 2 more sets of fiction medals, they are located in:

\Data\Textures\TLowRes\tex\badges.dds

and

\Data\Textures\TNormal\tex\badges.dds

this files seem to be compatible with real medals file.

Over the weekend I'll try to substitute the files with the fictional medals with the real ones and see if the medals can be displayed correctly on the game.

i got them working in the medal box but i'munsure where to find where i can change the name of the medals as well as where i can change the medal pictures for the crew.

[NonWonderDog]

The names should be in Data/Menu/Menu.txt, lines 5150-5156. I belive they should be:

5150=Medals
5151=Distinguished Service Medal
5152=Purple Heart
5153=Bronze Star
5154=Medal of Honor
5155=Silver Star
5156=Navy Cross

Perhaps it should be "Navy Distinguished Service Medal" -- I don't know if that's what it's really referred to as or if that's just to differentiate it from the ones for the Army and Air Force. I don't know if the game gives these in the right order either, or whether the order it uses is from before or after 1943.

[fullmetaledges]

ok i will change it later, how's about the dds file for the crew screen so i can change the medals there know where thats at?

[Tigrone]

The correct order for the ones listed below is:

Medal of Honor
Navy Cross
Distinguished Service Medal
Silver Star
Bronze Star
Purple Heart

The Purple Heart obviously is not associated with wounds in the game but is being used as a simple decoration, but it is a pretty medal, so it's OK by me. The Navy Commendation Medal or Asiatic Pacific Campaign Medal would be more appropriate.

We'll have to play with them to see how the game sorts them.

5150=Medals

[LukeFF]

i got them working in the medal box but i'munsure where to find where i can change the name of the medals as well as where i can change the medal pictures for the crew.

A bump for this.

Changing the medals out will be one of the first things I do when I get the game next week, so it would be nice to have the medal changes also apply to the crew screen.

[GSpector]

I just picked up my copy Friday and the 1st thing I did was look for the list of Medals & Ranks and seems I was not the only one shocked.

For quite some time, I've collected pictures and history of the Medals from around the world due to my fascination with them.

I still need to upgrade my Video Card. I have a GeForce 5700LE with 256mb on board.

I was hoping to see if these pictures could be changed, I am very happy to see they can be.

[walsh2509]

Has anyone looked at the, yuk, medals and , shudder, ranks? The ranks are not accurate at all for the time. The medals are just cracker jack box trinkets.

Can we lose the 2 top Chiefs, these ranks did not exist then, and gain a Lt. Commander and a Warrant? Probably not though, these are probably hard coded, but could the 2 senior Chiefs become Warrants 1 & 2, if there have to be 9 enlisted ranks?

The seaman ratings are not quite right either .

The medals:
Campaign Star look vaugly familiar but I don't have clue what it is.
The Submarine Service medal looks sort of like commendation
The Medal of Valor looks a lot like a Soviet Order of Glory
The Victory Cross looks most like a George Cross
The Wound Medal is simply a generic Purple Heart like thing without George.
The Patrol Star models a Silver Star pretty closely.

I wonder if some one official objected to real US decorations being used? I think this kind of thing is just childish.


http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s48/mefw/SH4/SH4Img24-3-2007_11-8.jpg
http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s48/mefw/SH4/SH4Img24-3-2007_11-7.jpg

[GSpector]

Okay, I think I see why they did not use the real names.

These Awards are for the U.S. Submarine Force, not the U.S. Navy.

Now all, U.S. Medals are actually the property of the U.S. and therefore the Citizens. If they could not get permission to use the name U.S. Navy in time for release, then it stands to reason that they decided not to use the U.S. Navy Medals. They may have created both images just in case they received such permission. They may have included both sets so that we could switch if we wish to on our own and also have them ready in case they received permission at a later date.

All Military hardware/weapons are also property of the U.S. Citizens but maintained by the Military. For those that remember the F-22 Rapture Sim by NovaLogic, they tried to trademark the name to prevent all other Developers from using the F-22 Aircraft in any other Sim. They lost the fight because it was not there property to licence. It was learned at that time, any U.S. Citizen can use the likeness of any U.S. Property just as long as they do not make either the Country, the U.S. Military or the Company that built or designed the property look bad.

Now, using the Military Branches is probably were the problem started. The Department of the U.S. Navy can control the use of their name. They probably could have used the Medals and Ranks but why if you can't use the name U.S. Navy.



Just my 2¢ worth.

[Barkhorn1x]

Now, using the Military Branches is probably were the problem started. The Department of the U.S. Navy can control the use of their name. They probably could have used the Medals and Ranks but why if you can't use the name U.S. Navy.



Just my 2¢ worth.

Good info.

So...to sum up - the real medal files do in fact exist in the sim. So...how does on go about replacing those "trinkets" in the screenshots above w/ the real deal?

[fullmetaledges]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v20/nailbomb/medal.jpg

If I could figure out which file to modify for the crew medals and how to change the wording of the citation because I think it doesn't make too much sense. I also don't know how to make this jgsme compatible I would release it but I havent done any sh3 or sh4 mods before so I'm not too experienced, if someone could fill me in i'd appreciate it.

[MadMike]

Here's an example of a citation for award of the Navy Cross-

#1: June to August 1943 — off Palau and the Caroline Islands
Lieutenant Commander Davenport (U.S. Navy, 72345) received his first Navy Cross award for service in August 1943 off Palau and the Caroline Islands while serving on the U.S.S. Haddock during World War II:

Roy M. Davenport
Citation For extraordinary heroism as Commanding Officer of a United States Submarine during operations against enemy Japanese forces in the Pacific Area. Throughout numerous hazardous war patrols in enemy-infested waters, Lieutenant Commander Davenport pressed home his attacks with cool and courageous determination and despite intense and persistent hostile opposition, succeeded in sinking over 10,500 tons of enemy shipping and damaging over 35,500 tons. His aggressive fighting spirit, inspiring leadership and the splendid efficiency of the men in his command contributed immeasurably to the success of our operations in this vital area and were in keeping with the highest traditions of the United States Naval Service.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roy_M._Davenport

Yours, Mike

[hyperion2206]

Did you guys make up the text that accompanies the medal, cause in the German version you only get the medal but without the text which is quite disturbing (at least for me).

[Tigrone]

The medals appear on game screens and in the box. The text is part of it and is in-game.

[fullmetaledges]

if i could get an experience modder to help me out i could get this thing wrapped up and hopefully out the door.

[AntEater]

It should be a matter of copying in one set of files to replace another and to replace some text messages. Problem is, I have no idea which text messages are actually used....

[fullmetaledges]

i think they want all the mods jgsme compatible and i don't know how to do that

[Barkhorn1x]

Basically, the JSGME program uses files that emulate the game program file structure. The program simply moves the old game files to a "Backup" folder and writes the new mod files to requesite folders.

So...using the "Changed HUD Lamp Color" mod as an example:
1. The main folder is called "GreenLamp"
2. W/in that folder is the following sub-folder string:
- Data/Menu/Gui/Layout
3. The altered files reside in the Layout sub-folder.

So...it is my understanding - from post #11 - that the 2 files to be replaced reside in the Data\Menu\Data folder. Therefore - you can structure a file starts w/ main folder called something like; "HistoricalMedals" - and the sub folders would be Data\Menu\Data - w/ the actual files residing in the last Data sub-folder. This gets loaded to the JSGME Mods folder and we are in business.

[LukeFF]

These Awards are for the U.S. Submarine Force, not the U.S. Navy.
These medals have absolutley nothing to do with reality. They are totally fictional medals.

Now, using the Military Branches is probably were the problem started. The Department of the U.S. Navy can control the use of their name. They probably could have used the Medals and Ranks but why if you can't use the name U.S. Navy.
There is absolutey nothing to support that matter unless you can support that with proof. I've owned many a game with American military medals and ranks in them, and nowhere is there a copyright credit given to whatever branch of the U.S. military is being depicted. The flight sim Pacific Fighters (a Ubisoft title) has US Navy, Marine Corps, and USAAF insignia plastered all over it, and nowhere is there any copyright credit given to any branch of the Department of Defense. The same is true of CFS2, a PTO flight sim. None of the medals I've earned in the US Army have any sort of copyright protection on them. Simply put, AFAIK, there is no copyright control on the depiction and reproduction of American medals.

The Department of the U.S. Navy can control the use of their name.
Again, nothing is there to support that claim. The branches of the Defense Department are not privately owned businesses, but the rather publicy-funded entities.

[GSpector]

Actually, I was not referring to any branch controlling the names of the medals only possibly the names of the Branches.

All U.S. Medal are the property of the U.S. and the Citizens with special limitations on the Congressional Medal of Honor which by Law you can no longer own unless earned or passed down. Thanks to Clinton, it is now even illegal to posses a "COPY" of the actual medal even if it says "COPY" on it.

My only guess is that UBI may have tried to contact The Department of the Navy in regards to either using their name or the Medals and/or Ranks and just put the correct images on Hold in the Sim hoping to get a reply in time for release.

Other then UBI deciding to hold off, I too see no reason not to use the Names. From what I've seen and read in this forum, I don't see them putting the U.S. Navy in a bad light. Which is a no no and that you can check on. They will not support you and will ask that you do not use their name if still wish to. This was all brought out thanks to NovaLogic lawsuit against other companies.

I can only guess it must have either been due to either some legal issue or someone did not do enough research on the Medal & Ranks to be convincing in game.

Now if they got all confused as to how to properly utilize the Rank/Rating system in the U.S. Navy, that I would believe as a valid reason and if you can't figure 1 out, maybe they just felt like not using either?:hmm:

Still only a guess.

Now if you can come up with a better answer, I'd be happy to read it.

[LukeFF]

My only guess is that UBI may have tried to contact The Department of the Navy in regards to either using their name or the Medals and/or Ranks and just put the correct images on Hold in the Sim hoping to get a reply in time for release.

Now if they got all confused as to how to properly utilize the Rank/Rating system in the U.S. Navy, that I would believe as a valid reason and if you can't figure 1 out, maybe they just felt life not using either?:hmm:

Still only a guess.

Now if you can come up with a better answer, I'd be happy to read it.
Sure, of course, it's all wild speculation at this point as to why the medals are so strange in the game. Your guess is as good as mine, and yours is pretty darn good, so I won't try to trump it. ;)

Let's just hope they correct this oversight in 1.2, along with the unrealistic enlisted ranks.

Cheers :yep:

[fullmetaledges]

ok as soon as I find the file to modify the crew medals I will test it put it in the right format test again and hopefully release it

[LukeFF]

ok as soon as I find the file to modify the crew medals I will test it put it in the right format test again and hopefully release it

Good to hear!

[MadMike]

I'd recommend contacting Neal, Sailor Steve, and other U.S. Navy veteran's for the correct order of precedence and examples of citations for awards. I'm retired Air Force, not too familiar with the Navy system of awards and dec's.

And no, there is no prohibition on the depiction of U.S. military medals in computer games.

Yours, Mike

[fullmetaledges]

I have a few of my own I can look off of :p

[GSpector]

I know when I get SH4 installed and I find those pics, I may just try to use some of the Pics I have in my collection instead.

Of course, if someone wants to release a MOD that can fix the Pics, I'm willing to try it too.

[fullmetaledges]

n/m

[fullmetaledges]

ok i found the file that needs to be changed for the crew but I've never dealt with alpha channels and i can change the medals but the alpha channel gets screwed up, if any of you experienced guys could help me out i'd appreciate it.

the file is located at \Ubisoft\Silent Hunter Wolves of the Pacific\Data\Menu\Gui\Layout\CrewSystemsManagement .dds

[fullmetaledges]

bump

[Barkhorn1x]

Can someone please help fullmetaledges w/ alpha channels??

We do want accurate medals now don't we?

[NephilimNexus]

Being that Ubisoft is, I believe, based out of Germany is it really that surprising that they got the German medals perfect in SH3 but were left scratching their heads about the American medals for SH4?

:know:

[GSpector]

I do believe Photo Shop can use Alpha channels but I don't use Photo Shop for the work I do. I wish I could help.

I'll get a better idea how to edit the Pics when I'm able to install SH4.

[Barkhorn1x]

Actually, the devs are Romanian - so they should have gotten them both wrong. :p

Seriously, read the rest of the thread - the accurate medals are in there. They are just not activated.

[GSpector]

I noticed that SH4 shows a San Fransisco address and that really surprised me that they did not use the correct Medals.

It is possible that it is due to their Corporate office not being in the U.S. that the Medals were not used. I would think that each title that is produced probably has to have the ok from Department of Defence to to use the U.S. Medals, which would explain why some of their titles have them and some don't. Here is the U.S. I don't see much of a problem as they are U.S. Property.

It really makes more sense now.

But still just a guess.

[Henchman]

Not that it really matters much, but I'm very curious to find out what happened here? Still no official replies regarding these silly ficticious medals then? I certainly don't believe that the developers just did'nt know or did'nt have enough time to research it. They were able to research every nut and bolt detail of all those beautifully modeled ships and somehow could not figure out how to do a simple 2 minute google search??? :oops: Yeah right! There is definitely something fishy going on here, and I seeriously doubt it has anything to do with U.S. laws...

Note the lack of authentic insignias on any of the crew's uniforms... No dolphins, no ribbons, not even an Eagle on the officers crumpled up hats. The flag even has subtle errors in it. In fact all U.S. references appear to be wrong in one way or another. It almost appears like someone made an effort to screw it up.

My half baked theories::hmm:

1) An obscure leftover communist law in Romania banning U.S. symbols (like the swastika in Germany?)....?
2) A developers subtle protest of US foreign policy? Iraq, OPEC.... you name it. Damn hippies!
3) Militant Islamic game developers have infiltrated ubisoft...

Anyway, I have complete confidence that you awesome modders can fix all these little things for us. Remember: every mod that beefs up realism in SH4 = a victory against terrorism!!! :arrgh!: :up:

[GSpector]

Errors in the U.S. flag???:o

What was the error. There should be 48 Stars (6 down, 8 across) and 13 Stripes (7 Red, 6 White).

[Lawndart]

Not that it really matters much, but I'm very curious to find out what happened here? Still no official replies regarding these silly ficticious medals then? I certainly don't believe that the developers just did'nt know or did'nt have enough time to research it. They were able to research every nut and bolt detail of all those beautifully modeled ships and somehow could not figure out how to do a simple 2 minute google search??? :oops: Yeah right! There is definitely something fishy going on here, and I seeriously doubt it has anything to do with U.S. laws...

Note the lack of authentic insignias on any of the crew's uniforms... No dolphins, no ribbons, not even an Eagle on the officers crumpled up hats. The flag even has subtle errors in it. In fact all U.S. references appear to be wrong in one way or another. It almost appears like someone made an effort to screw it up.

My half baked theories::hmm:

1) An obscure leftover communist law in Romania banning U.S. symbols (like the swastika in Germany?)....?
2) A developers subtle protest of US foreign policy? Iraq, OPEC.... you name it. Damn hippies!
3) Militant Islamic game developers have infiltrated ubisoft...

Anyway, I have complete confidence that you awesome modders can fix all these little things for us. Remember: every mod that beefs up realism in SH4 = a victory against terrorism!!! :arrgh!: :up:

Thats awsome! I keep having this naging suspisions too.... Yours are a little better thought out... There are a lot of things that are just not right, small things that could have done a great deal when it comes to feeling American, Also, have you seen the german flags in the game? They creap me out... They arent even listed in the manual.

[Tigrone]

I agree. It's the only thing that explains the fact that these things are clearly planned. They are not simple errors. All the correct medals, insignia, and types of craft are in SH3 and IL2 (the 2 main WW2 sims up to now), which are both from Ubisoft. Why, some are even hidden in the game files! Fake medals, upside down US stars, Lancasters instead of Liberators, no US insignia on US crew, a U-boat on every page of my manual --it's a conspiracy.

This is definitely by design and not someone's ignorance or goof. I will take it to be a calculated national insult to America, deserving of satisfaction. Pistols or rapiers?:arrgh!:

Actually, I do find it disrespectful, and I have the sense that there is an attitude of distain for us. It just strikes me, as discourteous. The German medals, insignia, and symbols in SH3 were correct and detailed. If this game had been a British themed game, released in England with U-boats, uniquely US equipment, and un-British symbols; all hell would have broken loose.

OK, back On Topic: I'm going to try and find some time this coming weekend to see if I can figure out how to swap out the bad medals for the good. If the files are in the game directory, there must to a way to insert them.

[GSpector]

Personally. before we try to keelhaul UBI or the Dev team, I think it might just be a good idea if maybe Neal try to politely contact them just to ask why there is no correct US reference for the US side when this is supposed to be a US Navel Sim.

I still kind of think there are some legalities tied up in Red tape some where. I have trouble believing they would be this blatant without a veeery goood reason.:hmm:

I wonder if all the correct images are somewhere to be found, such as correct Flag, Uniforms and insignia for the US side.

[Barkhorn1x]

Guys, guys - back to reality now!! :nope:

Did any of you read post #11???

Here it is:


The real US Navy medals are here:

C:\SH4 folder\Data\Menu\Gui\Medals

The fake medals are here:

C:\SH4 folder\Data\Menu\Data

located in 2 files:
AwardsItems_1.dds
AwardsItems_2.dds

You might be able to use a DDS graphics editor to copy and paste the real ones on the 2 files the game is using.

Hope this helps.


The real medals are there - tho' not activated for some reason - and "fullmetaledges" has released a medal mod. under a seperate thread. The only problem is the crew medals are not working. So progress is being made here.

[GSpector]

Actually Barkhorn1x,

The people here can correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the big question now is not so much where are the real Medals, but why all correct references to the U.S. Navy is missing.

Are there other images with the correct insignias, Uniforms and Flags that were not used but can be switch for?

This is a perplexing question that I am sure has a very good answer.

[clayton]

The only mention of the US Navy that I saw was on the face of the clocks spread throughout the boat.

[LukeFF]

FFS, can we PLEASE stay on the subject at hand?! This thread isn't about why Ubi didn't use the proper medals from the start, but rather how to get them working in game! Is that too hard for some of you to understand?

[Beery]

Has anyone looked at the, yuk, medals and , shudder, ranks? The ranks are not accurate at all for the time. The medals are just cracker jack box trinkets.

Don't worry. These things are relatively easy to fix (if SH4 is like SH3 - and it seems to be). Medals and ranks are high on my priority list, so if no one else does it first I'll do it.

[Barkhorn1x]

Don't worry. These things are relatively easy to fix (if SH4 is like SH3 - and it seems to be). Medals and ranks are high on my priority list, so if no one else does it first I'll do it.

You da man!

[Lukemb]

I'm still trying to work on the crew medals but I'm having a few problems with the alpha channels in the dds file.

I'm using Photoshop but am not having great results :cry:

For now Fullmetalhedges has done a great work with his mod.

[Beery]

I'm still trying to work on the crew medals but I'm having a few problems with the alpha channels in the dds file.

I'm using Photoshop but am not having great results :cry:

For now Fullmetalhedges has done a great work with his mod.

For some reason Photoshop always seems to have problems with alpha channels. What Photoshop version are you using?

[fullmetaledges]

I was using photoshop 7.0 and was working with the crewsystemmanagement.dds file. I changed the .dds to a targa but as soon as I make any changes to the targa it would screw up the alpha channel and i could never figure out how to do it. I can send you the files that i was working on if you want to mess with it.

[Beery]

I was using photoshop 7.0 and was working with the crewsystemmanagement.dds file. I changed the .dds to a targa but as soon as I make any changes to the targa it would screw up the alpha channel and i could never figure out how to do it. I can send you the files that i was working on if you want to mess with it.

I think there's a plug-in available that allows you to work directly with DDS files, but I'm not sure where to get it or what Photoshop versions it works with (you could probably google 'photoshop dds plug-in'). Once I get my new copy of Photoshop tomorrow I might be able to help out with this stuff, but my computer crashed recently and until tomorrow I can't even see targa files.

[Psycluded]

Download this (http://psycluded.net/files/D3DXTextureFormat.8bi) file and place it in your photoshop\plugins\file formats directory.

The file is courtesy of Microsoft, as it comes from the DirectX SDK.

[Beery]

I was using photoshop 7.0 and was working with the crewsystemmanagement.dds file. I changed the .dds to a targa but as soon as I make any changes to the targa it would screw up the alpha channel and i could never figure out how to do it. I can send you the files that i was working on if you want to mess with it.

Here's how to work on dds files in Photoshop Elements 5.0 (I just figured it out by trial and error):

First you'll need the dds plug-in package from here (http://developer.download.nvidia.com/tools/texturetools/Photoshop_Plugins_7.83.0629.1500.exe)

Install that into your Adobe\Photoshop Elements 5.0 folder.

Once you've done that you'll be able to edit dds files in Photoshop.

Now, to save a file with its alpha channel intact you'll want to do the following:

Open the file in Photoshop and edit it as normal. After editing, click on the 'Select' tab and 'load selection' (in Photoshop alpha channels are called 'selections'. This will load the alpha channel. Now click on the 'Select' tab again and 'Save selection'. Select 'Alpha 1' in the 'selection' window and select 'Intersect with selection' in the 'operation' window, then click okay.

Now you can save the file by using 'Save as'. A window will pop up and you need to choose DXT5 (interpolated alpha) in the drop-down list. Then save and that's it. The file should be the same size as the original. If the file is half the size of the original it means the alpha channel is not saved.

There may be an easier way to do it, but this worked for me when I altered the moon graphic.

[fullmetaledges]

I was using photoshop 7.0 and was working with the crewsystemmanagement.dds file. I changed the .dds to a targa but as soon as I make any changes to the targa it would screw up the alpha channel and i could never figure out how to do it. I can send you the files that i was working on if you want to mess with it.

Here's how to work on dds files in Photoshop Elements 5.0 (I just figured it out by trial and error):

First you'll need the dds plug-in package from here (http://developer.download.nvidia.com/tools/texturetools/Photoshop_Plugins_7.83.0629.1500.exe)

Install that into your Adobe\Photoshop Elements 5.0 folder.

Once you've done that you'll be able to edit dds files in Photoshop.

Now, to save a file with its alpha channel intact you'll want to do the following:

Open the file in Photoshop and edit it as normal. After editing, click on the 'Select' tab and 'load selection' (in Photoshop alpha channels are called 'selections'. This will load the alpha channel. Now click on the 'Select' tab again and 'Save selection'. Select 'Alpha 1' in the 'selection' window and select 'Intersect with selection' in the 'operation' window, then click okay.

Now you can save the file by using 'Save as'. A window will pop up and you need to choose DXT5 (interpolated alpha) in the drop-down list. Then save and that's it. The file should be the same size as the original. If the file is half the size of the original it means the alpha channel is not saved.

There may be an easier way to do it, but this worked for me when I altered the moon graphic.
yeah i finally got it last night, im waiting to find the awarding criteria file so i can edit that then I will release it

[icemotoboy]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Work_of_the_United_States_Government (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Work_of_the_United_States_Government)


The images of all badges, insignia, decorations and medals on the institute web site are protected by Title 18, United States Code, Section 704 and the Code of Federal Regulations (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Code_of_Federal_Regulations) (32 CFR, Part 507). Permission to use these images for commercial purposes must be obtained from The Institute of Heraldry prior to their use.


While this does exist, I have worked as project manager on a few gaming projects of significant size and we've never bothered to ask for permission. I cannot recall any case law around the use of US insignia, medals, or ranks, in eithe fiction or entertainment. In fact, there is solid case law around the use of uniforms although the Department of Navy insists that people should seek their approval (http://neds.daps.dla.mil/Directives/05000%20General%20Management%20Security%20and%20Sa fety%20Services/05-700%20General%20External%20and%20Internal%20Relati ons%20Services/5720.44B.pdf) for use of Uniforms/material/facilities before doing so:


Page 7-9:

(8) Support will not imply endorsement of a commercial

enterprise or a partisan political candidate. This includes
commercial requests for use of uniforms and insignia, which
require ASD(PA) approval.

[Tigrone]

"The images of all badges, insignia, decorations and medals on the institute web site are protected by Title 18, United States Code, Section 704 and the Code of Federal Regulations (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Code_of_Federal_Regulations) (32 CFR, Part 507). Permission to use these images for commercial purposes must be obtained from The Institute of Heraldry prior to their use."

This does not touch on what the developers or we are doing. It just says you cannot steal the dipictions of the decorations from the Institute of Heraldry website or link to them without permission. The made them, so they want a cut if you make money off what they made. The artistic renderings they created belong to them. Any one is free to make and properly use for artistic or historical purposes their own dipictions of the decorations.

The dipiction of decorations in their normal use in a historical context is not prohibited at all. If it were, one could not paint a portrait of any soldier, George Patton say, with all his medals. Decorations are no greater symbol than the flag itself. Their artistic depiction is OK in the same way a dipiction of the flag is. There is not and never has been anything that prevents it.

The actual wearing of a decoration, not awarded (there are exceptions), or the false claim to a decoration is against the law, as is impersonating an officer of the United States. US law was just changed recently to give greater protection to the Medal of Honor at the time an official personal Medal of Honor flag was created for display by holders of the medal. DOD is tighting up the regs. and beginning to enforce them, but they have nothing to do with historical or theatrical simulations.

By the way, Fullmetaledges' US medal swap works great, and they look great. It's a done thing. Hooray!

This thread has run it's course. Go to the medal [REL] thread.