Question about Wire-Guidance

[Ghost Dog]

in some of the submarine material i have read it seems that more commands are available to send via wire-guidance ala ADCAP.

someone correct me, but shouldnt it be possible to:

1. Change from active to passive homing or vice versa.

2. Change depth.

3. Change seeker pattern. (circle to snake)

4. change speed.


also, ive wondered about why there appears to be no 'drive around/drive through' logic in torps when they encounter CMs.

any torpedo experts out there?

[Amizaur]

In standard DW there is not possible to send such commands to torpedo. But there are torpedo doctrine mods that make some of those things possible ! For example in Sub Command SCX mod were great torpedo doctrines with many additional functions, unfortunately sending those commands to torpedo is little complicated because the existing game user interface is rather poor - only two buttons and one left-right "tool", and they already have standard functions assigned. Sending additional commands takes some clicking combinations and you are never sure at which mode torpedo currently is... :hmm: In fact it is possible to make doctrine mod in which would be possible to change ANY torpedo parameter (speed, depth, floor, ceiling, pattern, homing mode, whatever) on the fly, but using those controls would be extremly complicated :damn:
I made myself few torpedo mods, part of them is controlling torpedo functions during run but only few most wanted, just to not make it too complicated. BUT... if there were any additional control buttons and switches on wire guidance screen, for example on more button and one more left-right "thing", such mod would be much easier to implement and MUCH more simple in usage.
Please make petition to SCS about adding few additional custom buttons to torpedo control screen, with corresponding custom doctrine variables, if you want such (simple in use) mod :-) I don't think adding additional button or switch to interface is problem for programmer, don't know if adding corresponding doctrine variables make more trouble, but this was done already - DW doctrine language have more variables than SC had, so... ? :-) Please please please SCS, make only those buttons - additional controls in the interface, modders will do the rest and design the doctrines :-)

edit: drive-around logic not appear to be there because no one programmed it - but it could be programmed in torpedo doctrine if somone bothered. Almost anything can be :). Drive-through logic... if I understand this term correclty - then it recently was programmed ;) take a look at Luftwolf & Amizaur mod and it's docrines ;)

Cheers!

[Kapitan]

as an akula skipper is use the 65cm wire guided torpedo i can only change course and wether its active or not cant change depth

[Ghost Dog]

from what i've read about the ADCAP, you cand send a whole menagerie of commands to it, so long as the wires are intact.

many of which include the ones I have mentioned already.

[Kapitan]

fire a wireguided weapons is a hell of a risk if it goes active near you and wires break youve had it

bear in mind the cable that attachs the torpedo to the submarine is very very thin

the 65cm is my weapon of choice i normaly load out more of them than any other weapon normal load out is 8 of them with 4 in the tubes

personaly the ADCAP is better but russia oesnt use em so i got my lill 65 and i is happy

[Ghost Dog]

Its hard to get solid info on the operational performance capabilities of the ADCAP. Im sure alot of what ive read is open speculation. and knowing the yanks, there are probably multiple 'blocks' of ADCAP design much like fighter aircraft i'd imagine. example: ADCAP block 10, block 15 and so on. im only guessing, but i'd wager that the americans have made improvements and modifications to the ADCAP over the years.

its such a mysterious field of warfare. I once read that the only time a submarine has ever killed another submarine in anger was in april, 1945. A british submarine fired a spread of torpedoes (Mk 8s I think) at a suspected snorkelling U-Boat and reported hearing explosions on that bearing. a U-boat was confirmed to be lost 'around' that location and 'around' the time frame by Kriegsmarine command. so, it might not even have happened.

so, one has to wonder, given the lack of combat usage of most ASW torpedoes how they would perform in wartime conditions. It took many years of combat experience to perfect air-to-air guided missiles, mainly in Vietnam and Middle-East.

[Neutrino 123]

Hmmm, perhaps you are talking about a submarine killing another submerged submarine? Submarines have killed surfaced submarines several times, even back in WWI.

[compressioncut]

Modern torps are tested very thoroughly, in warlike conditions. It's not as though they are designed in a lab and from there dropped in the racks. Replace the warhead with a telemetry package and go to town firing them in any situation you see fit.

One notable example is the American Sub Commanders' Course (formerly prospective commanding officers' course), where many, many ADCAPs will be shot at ships and subs, and many, many Mk.46s will be shot back at the subs, and the shooters and targets aren't constrained by much but common sense.

RIMAPC is also a pretty big live-fire exercise, although not as intense as an SCC.

[TopTorp '92]

in some of the submarine material i have read it seems that more commands are available to send via wire-guidance ala ADCAP.

someone correct me, but shouldnt it be possible to:

1. Change from active to passive homing or vice versa.

2. Change depth.

3. Change seeker pattern. (circle to snake)

4. change speed.


also, ive wondered about why there appears to be no 'drive around/drive through' logic in torps when they encounter CMs.

any torpedo experts out there?

The CM problem is really an issue. In DW the CM can cause the ADCAP to detonate. In reality this is impossible as the war head requires a combination of triggers either of which could be contact or magnetic influence.

If there were one aspect of game play I could change it is this.

Also, concerning CMs, ADCAP in reality can navigate around them or even use them to project the future position of the vessel. As you know this is not a feature in DW.

[LuftWolf]

If you want your torpedos to stop detonating on CM's, then you might want to try Amizaur and my mod. :up:

Also, the reason many features of torpedo control are not implimented, is because it would unbalance gameplay greatly in favor of the first shooter, as we saw with the torpedo feedback feature (a bonefide ability of the real-world ADCAP) which we were compelled to remove from the mod because of balance considerations.

[OKO]

fire a wireguided weapons is a hell of a risk if it goes active near you and wires break youve had it

bear in mind the cable that attachs the torpedo to the submarine is very very thin

but NEVER break in DW unless you close the door.
you can't break it in any other situation than closing the door.


the 65cm is my weapon of choice i normaly load out more of them than any other weapon normal load out is 8 of them with 4 in the tubes

personaly the ADCAP is better but russia oesnt use em so i got my lill 65 and i is happy

the 65 cm is not an ASW weapon and is not wire guided IRL.
As it is also in the MOD 2.01 of LuftWolf and Amizaur.
You probably don't use this MOD ...

[Kapitan]

the 65 cm is not an ASW weapon and is not wire guided IRL.
As it is also in the MOD 2.01 of LuftWolf and Amizaur.
You probably don't use this MOD ...

and you know why its not wire guided in real life because a 65cm doesnt exist in real life ok the 65-76 and a few others do :up:

but NEVER break in DW unless you close the door.
you can't break it in any other situation than closing the door.

thats what i was getting at i sometimes forget what torpedo come out f which tube and shut doors to re load nothing new there it happens get over it get another fish in the tube A.S.A.P


65CM isnt an ASW torpedo but i use it in that role any way cause it works my saying if it works use it if it dont loose it

[OKO]

and you know why its not wire guided in real life because a 65cm doesnt exist in real life ok the 65-76 and a few others do :up:


named 65-76 because it's a 65cm diameter torpedo.
You know, posting don't mean you can say any stupid thing you have in mind, Kapitain.


thats what i was getting at i sometimes forget what torpedo come out f which tube and shut doors to re load nothing new there it happens get over it get another fish in the tube A.S.A.P

Easy, very very easy : look the torp number on the target display.
Are you totally noob on this simulation ???
One more time, try use your judgment before saying something, I'd like to read one day something interesting from you.
As this time, I never did ...

I know you are very young, but this doesnt' mean you should be retarded.

[Kapitan]

your problem not mine i have no time for people who have no time for anyone else and who put people down (not aimed at you)

personaly i think u need to read into the posts a bit more im well aware the the 65-76 has a 65cm diamiter and im aware that it was built in 1976

if you dont find anything intresting in my posts take a hint right here right now

STOP READING THEM

cause i am not going to justify to you everytime i want to post eat frat burp or sh*t

[OKO]

Anyway, try to make ONE INTERESTING POST, one day.
You will feel better after that.
This is not a post contest, 3000 post in 7 month, you probably hunt for the post record.
You miss the point young boy. it's not the number that will make you respectable neither interesting.

[Kapitan]

come call me boy to my face and see exactly what happens i aint a boy

as for post contests so bloody what i do not give a toss one iota about how many ive posted 300 or 3000 i do not care

in my life i care for little to name a few my girl friend and family and some close friends other than that i realy dont give a toss and you happen to be on that list i do not care about anyones problems bar my own and family

youve always had it in for me i know it ive read back through some old posts if this was a business ide be consulting my familys barrister and sueing for victimisation

stop pesetering me and bugger off i dont care nor do i want to know OK

so just beet it

[Molon Labe]

If you want your torpedos to stop detonating on CM's, then you might want to try Amizaur and my mod. :up:

Also, the reason many features of torpedo control are not implimented, is because it would unbalance gameplay greatly in favor of the first shooter, as we saw with the torpedo feedback feature (a bonefide ability of the real-world ADCAP) which we were compelled to remove from the mod because of balance considerations.

The feedback produced discrete point-solutions instead of raw sensor data, replete with washout, CM bubble screening, and diminished anechoic returns.

Combine that with the wire being infinite length and nearly unbreakable... yeah, we're better off without it.

[Molon Labe]

come call me boy to my face and see exactly what happens i aint a boy

as for post contests so bloody what i do not give a toss one iota about how many ive posted 300 or 3000 i do not care

in my life i care for little to name a few my girl friend and family and some close friends other than that i realy dont give a toss and you happen to be on that list i do not care about anyones problems bar my own and family

youve always had it in for me i know it ive read back through some old posts if this was a business ide be consulting my familys barrister and sueing for victimisation

stop pesetering me and bugger off i dont care nor do i want to know OK

so just beet it

Victimisation? Sounds like you might be talking about intentional infliction of emotional distress, a rather newfangled cause of action...

Here's what we've got across the pond, I can't imagine English standards being terribly different, since our system is based on yours.

RST Section 46 Outrageous Conduct Causing Severe Emotional Distress
(1) One who by extreme and outrageous conduct intenionally or recklessly causes severe emotional distress to another is subject to liability for such emotional distress, and if bodily harm to the other results from it, for such bodily harm.

So, you have two major hurdles to overcome: First, you need to show that defendant's conduct was extreme and outrageous, and then you need to show that it resulted in some sort of compensible damages....

good luck! :know:

[Kapitan]

easy :up:

got a little idea call in a few people i know saying oh he did this and that witnesses sorted :D

and have some marks put on me thats the exteme one :D

see im not fik :-j

only time id do that is if i had to OKO is ok i respect him for what he knows but my respect dimmisishes day by day shame realy

[darksythe]

Easy guys.. OKO i would however suggest that you read Kapitans Under Ice Guide though. It is a very well written explination of under ice ops. Not taking sides just saying lets cool it guys can we? :sunny:

[Orm]

OKO, do you actually read what you are writing? You should take easy. This is a FORUM. Do you know what that mean? Freedom of speech. And about stupidity, what you just wrote was rather stupid, I believe far below your normal intellectual level. :nope:

[stormrider_sp]

Who are you OKO? what do you do for living? why do you think you´re an expert or something?

[John Channing]

OK.... all of the name calling and nastiness stops here.

Get it back on topic or this thread goes away.

Keep up the current level of discourse and some people's posting privileges may go away as well.

Thanks

JCC

[Kapitan]

wire gudience is great when you miss a ship and you have to double the torpedo back i spose in a way it saves torpedos

[UglyMowgli]

wire gudience is great when you miss a ship and you have to double the torpedo back i spose in a way it saves torpedos

What, did you read the La haye convention (1907) chapter VIII about the torpdoes?

The article I :
It is fordiben to use torpdeo that didn't desactivate when it miss their target

Don't miss your target or I will ask the International Red Cross Comitte to make an inquiry for war crime :D

[Bellman]

:sunny: I do love that 'slapper' :|\

Maybe I will haul down the flag and fly the 'Jolly Penguin' :lol:

Well thats my major contribution to this very enlightening discussion. ;)

[swimsalot]

I know you are very young, but this doesnt' mean you should be retarded.

That's really not very nice, and kinda goes against the spirit of these boards, doesn't it?
If you don't like someone's post, ignore it or correct them in a positive manner.

Name calling degrades both you and the level of integrity of these boards.
With Respect,
Swims

EDIT: Just read further down where others mentioned my feelings as well.
Not trying to beat a dead horse.

[Kapitan]

he who cant say it to my face is a coward has to hide behind a screen because he is scared OKO if you ever come to england look me up i do belive my fist has an oppiontment with your face i dont take crap from no one not here not anywhere.

my appologise all but i realy cant stand some idiot abusing me or my family

[Molon Labe]

he who cant say it to my face is a coward has to hide behind a screen because he is scared OKO if you ever come to england look me up i do belive my fist has an oppiontment with your face i dont take crap from no one not here not anywhere.

my appologise all but i realy cant stand some idiot abusing me or my family

Kapitan, you should probably take that back before Channing sees it. Venting isn't worth losing your posting privileges, is it?

[XabbaRus]

Ok unfortunately I am not a mod on this forum so I can't lock it. go to mod workshop forum to give me that pleasure.

As I have mentioned in a thread between OKO and AAA quit the name calling and insults.

I have noticed too much of it going on of late between members the likes of which I very rarely saw when I started coming here 4 years ago. yep definately on the increase.

So please if you have something to say constructively then say it. If you can't then keep your mouth shut and sit on it.

Yea I know there are people who can be annoying, I am sure I have been in the past, but when it is over stuff that is quite trivial really it isn't worth it. If you want to have it out do it over e-mail not even on private messages.

You have issues with peoples data, go out and verify it yourself and then come back and debate it in an adult manner. Want to know how someone finds stuff out. Ask them. Don't know whether to believe it or not, well up to you.

It is getting quite annoying to come here and see this crap going on, not like how it used to be...

[John Channing]

he who cant say it to my face is a coward has to hide behind a screen because he is scared OKO if you ever come to england look me up i do belive my fist has an oppiontment with your face i dont take crap from no one not here not anywhere.

my appologise all but i realy cant stand some idiot abusing me or my family

Let's call this strike two. At least OKO was smart enough to walk away after my first warning.

And apologizing in the same post as your transgression really doesn't mean a thing.

Don't let it happen again. Not just in this thread.... ever.

JCC

[swimsalot]

As I have mentioned in a thread between OKO and AAA quit the name calling and insults.

Hmm, a pattern is emerging?

[LuftWolf]

OKO is a stand up individual and I don't hesitate to vouch for him as a wonderfully knowledgable player and most enjoyable MP partner.

Kapitain has contributed some of the most entertaining posts to this board and is amongst the most enthusiastic contributors to Subsim.

That's all I have to say about this.

I'd advise other people to keep their comments positive.

[OKO]

Not trying to beat a dead horse.
...
Hmm, a pattern is emerging?

respect what you said instead of giving lessons
this is a better pattern.

thanks for your comments Luftwolf.

[Kapitan]

il call a cease fire only if

OKO stears clear of me

only if he has some thing constructive to say then say it

stops private messaging me

other than there we are going around in circuls

[Pigfish]

Ok unfortunately I am not a mod on this forum so I can't lock it. go to mod workshop forum to give me that pleasure.

:hmm: So how does one get this position? Oh to be Omnipotent.
:-j :-j

It is getting quite annoying to come here and see this crap going on, not like how it used to be...

Like 'General Topics" has become.... :(

[John Channing]

il call a cease fire only if

OKO stears clear of me

only if he has some thing constructive to say then say it

stops private messaging me

other than there we are going around in circuls

ENOUGH!

And the only reason that I am not locking this right now is that I hope Pigfish will see this and send me a pm with some direction to the threads he is refering to in the General Topics section. Apparently I will have to spend some more time there.

JCC