Is marginal ice flow noise modeled in DW or SC?

[MarkShot]

I have been rereading a copy of Tom Clancy's "Submarine". I suspect I had bought it long before SC was released (copyright 1993) and before I knew that there were any form of games that allowed for 3D maneuvers beyond flight sims ...

In it, he speaks about "boomer bastions" and how some likely ones are situated near marginal ice flows (thin ice in flux). He indicates that the flow noise makes passive sonar tracking much more difficult.

I know SC/DW model sea state noise. I was curious if part of the "under ice" modeling incorporates this form of ice flow noise?

Thanks.

[Kapitan]

it does to a point sea state 5 under ice and it does mask some noise i can tell you that :up:

[Takeda Shingen]

Sea state 5 masks sound anywhere, not just under ice.

In my experience, grinding or flow noise related to loose ice packs are either not modeled or marginally so.

[Kapitan]

i think they are modeled but then again i cant tell the diffrence i play under ice 90% of the time so i dont realy know i dont get out of there much

[SquidB]

I hope that it is modded, as im sure that that it makes a tactical difference. (well it did in Red Storm Rising anyway)

Can someone confirm whether this exsits or not?

[Kapitan]

it is a major tactical advantage the ice covers noise and makes it harder to detect and yes i think it is modeled in dw and sc

[SquidB]

Well thats good news Kapitain, Can anyone back this up?

[PeriscopeDepth]

I recall a USN sonarman who used to frequent the SC board saying that it actually was pretty quiet under the ice.

[Kapitan]

because british russian and american can filter out back ground noise ie the noise the ice makes

the french can also but its supposidly not very good and chnease well forget them the only ice they see is from thier freezers

[Amizaur]

I think it's rather quite under ice-cap (I mean thick ice in one piece), the noise is under cover of crushed ice fragments that tear and crush each other all the time with wave action :-)

[Kapitan]

the ice is constantly moving holes in the ice are big and provide areas to fill up hence why the ice moves

the ice creaks groans moans breaks all the time making noise the ice is never still

[Amizaur]

but centered around a north pole there is a area covered with thick "solid" ice ? or not ? ice not breaking and crusing but one large piece ? there should be quiet.

[Kapitan]

no not at all there are holes every where under the ice and yes there are holes in the north pole if it was one big solid chunk of ice no submarine could surface it would be about 15 feet thick even a typhoon would not be able to crack it

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y262/russian-navy01/t647.jpg

a picture from a typhoon at the north pole note the incredibly loose ice :arrgh!:

[Amizaur]

You have to be right then, indeed if the ice was solid there would be not possible to surface at north pole :-)

[Kapitan]

exactly bill should also know if he went to the n pole on the nautilus he would know :up: