Choose your own gun reload time! [download] [Archive]

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HMCS

07-07-05, 11:21 AM

Nice work.

When will these files be available at Uboatrealsimulation?

terrapin

07-07-05, 11:23 AM

Nice work.

When will these files be available at Uboatrealsimulation?

CCIP promised to send them to me 2 days ago....when I have them it takes only a few minutes

CCIP

07-07-05, 08:28 PM

Hehe, sorry guys, I was mostly off the soapbox for the last two days.

Sometime in the next couple of hours I guess :up:

shipkiller

07-08-05, 12:13 PM

CCIP,

I downloaded the 30 second file and put it in the directory as you said after renaming the old file as a backup.

I still have the 4 second reload.

Do I need to restart a career?

Uber Gruber

07-08-05, 12:21 PM

Well i've absolutely no intention of installing this mod untill its at least compatible with JSGME. Shame on you for such an amature delivery :-j

kyee7k

07-08-05, 01:57 PM

i think the guys handling the deckgun needs to be deckgun certified.

Taurondin

07-09-05, 03:30 PM

Well i've absolutely no intention of installing this mod untill its at least compatible with JSGME. Shame on you for such an amature delivery :-j

Well here it is repackaged for use with JSGME -

http://rapidshare.de/files/2929785/DeckGunreloadTimes.zip.html

Simply unzip the archive to the SilentHunterIII\MODS folder and run JSGME
You should have 8 new mods available, each for a different reload time
Or unzip to a temporary folder and just copy the versions you want into SilentHunterIII\MODS

CCIP or Terrapin, you`re very welcome to grab this if it`s any help

Jenos

07-09-05, 05:04 PM

I need that rapidfire deck gun!

I'm not joking! It would be fun!

CCIP

07-09-05, 06:18 PM

Uh... try my mod with the 0.01 second setting - or is 6000 RPM not rapid enough for you? :-j

shipkiller

07-09-05, 10:03 PM

Did you see my question above?

Any thoughts on what I am doing wrong?

CCIP

07-09-05, 10:06 PM

I think I might know the problem.

1) How did you rename the file?
2) Did you keep it in the same folder?

SHIII's library folder has some sort of a strange quirk which detects backup files and, if they come first alphabetically, it will use them in the game despite the wrong name.

Just move the backup out of the folder and see what happens. I bet that's what it is.

(I should probably have mentioned it in my readme, definitely a good point...)

terrapin

07-09-05, 10:51 PM

shipkiller

07-10-05, 09:25 AM

CCIP, you were right. Once I moved the backup file out of the directory, it worked fine. Thank you for the advice.

Since I have not been able to get the hang of the Jones program, I usually don't anything more than append the old files with the word backup and leave them in the folder where they were so that I can easily find them if I need to change them back. I have never had a problem with this method before. Do you think this is a unique issue with the library files?

I think I might know the problem.

1) How did you rename the file?
2) Did you keep it in the same folder?

SHIII's library folder has some sort of a strange quirk which detects backup files and, if they come first alphabetically, it will use them in the game despite the wrong name.

Just move the backup out of the folder and see what happens. I bet that's what it is.

(I should probably have mentioned it in my readme, definitely a good point...)

The Avon Lady

07-10-05, 09:56 AM

I'm playing with RUb 1.42. The deck gun reload time seems to be unrealistic. Is it? Did it take the crew that long to reload?

If not, what's a more realistic value?

CCIP

07-10-05, 11:07 AM

Do you think this is a unique issue with the library files?

Well it definitely only happens with the Library files, though that might also be the case with some others that I haven't looked into. SHIII works in mysterious ways :)

The Avon Lady

07-11-05, 01:52 AM

I'm playing with RUb 1.42. The deck gun reload time seems to be unrealistic. Is it? Did it take the crew that long to reload?

If not, what's a more realistic value?
/bump

Anyone know? :-?

KL Seestern

07-11-05, 11:46 AM

I'm playing with RUb 1.42. The deck gun reload time seems to be unrealistic. Is it? Did it take the crew that long to reload?

If not, what's a more realistic value?
/bump

Anyone know? :-?

There's a discussion of this in another thread, where Beery offers some justification for what has been done in RUB 1.42. See http://www.subsim.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=39341

Reece

07-11-05, 08:41 PM

Hey! Just what I'm looking for. :doh:

CCIP

07-12-05, 12:21 AM

As I state in the readme for the mod, I consider the RUb reload time to be the most realistic option. You can definitely find a good deal of discussion on this in the linked thread.

I didn't release this selection because I didn't think RUb's was unrealistic; I did it to make people stop complaining about how they're sick of RUb's (realistic) DG. Everyone's gotta have their own choice, although I'd suggest playing with RUb for a while before passing any judgement on whether the realistic option suits your play style :up:

Pharaoh49

07-29-05, 04:18 PM

I wholeheartedly agree that the default reload time is ridiculous, however, in the opposite extreme, it is my belief that 60 seconds is too.

I do not base this belief on pure hypothesis but from some experience with large guns.

So far, I have yet to see any documentation to support this change to 60 seconds and since the only data I have to go on is from memory of over twenty years ago and the gun being somewhat different.

Many years ago I was an M48A5 tank commander in Armored CAV. Now, I will be the first to admit that my memory isn't what it used to be but I seem to recall that a trained crew could, and with reasonable accuracy, get off three rounds per minute; hence making the above choice of 20 seconds not unreasonable.

Now, to be fair, since in a tank the rounds are right there in reach whereas on the deckgun they would have to be supplied to the crew in a bucket-brigade fashion, I will opt for a 10 second penalty, leaving the 30 second choice.

Additionally, since the crew may not be as well versed in this guns usage versus that of a tank crew (they just naturally get a lot more practice), I will drop this by another 10 seconds.

This still leaves me with the 40 second option; still 20 seconds better than the RuB setting.

I welcome differing opinions.

Pharaoh49

07-29-05, 04:29 PM

baxter

07-29-05, 04:32 PM

Thanks!

Pablo

07-30-05, 01:49 PM

I stand corrected:

t takes about one minute, and this has been solidly researched. The time is based on real reports of U-boat combat reload times including one very detailed report that showed a boat taking 4 hours to fire 200 rounds into a cargo ship. It did indeed take that long to reload the deck gun when you take into account the set-up time (you have to un-waterproof the gun), and the fact that 90% of the shells were located inside the boat. They couldn't set up a 'constant flow of shells' because of the need to keep the decks as clear as possible in case of air attack.

I will leave the setting at one minute.

Thank you Beery

You might want to read the ENTIRE, ORIGINAL thread where the RUb team discussed modifying deck gun reloading time before you agree that the firing rate was "solidly researched." As Beery himself said,

Okay, here's what I did:

I changed the deck gun reload time to reflect an average time from the meagre historical sources I can find. The time is 60 seconds.
The entire thread is here:

http://www.subsim.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=37230&start=0

Personally, I look to Sailor Steve's real-world experience with naval guns to set the rate of fire to one round 10 seconds (about twice the default rate), but only fire using the "zoomed" gunners view with stabilization disabled to take into account the effects of using an unstabilized gun platform.

It's been my experience from a lot of digging (and some destroyer experience) that once 'ready-use' ammo has been expended maximum rate of fire falls to about half of what it was. They don't actually carry the shells all the way from the magazine to the gun, but form a 'bucket brigade', passing the shells from man to man. Of course the men involved in passing even a 25-pound shell are going to tire quickly, but the real slowdown would be the roll. These guns were NOT stabilized, and the gunner had to fire on the roll; that is, he had to decide his range and elevate the gun, and if the sub was rolling at all he had to fire at exactly the same part of the roll every time, or guarantee a miss. If the firing ship is only rolling one degree, that's a variation of over 3000 yards in impact point at a mean range of 2000 yards.

Example: if a 3.46" (8.8cm) gun fires a 20-pound shell at an elevation of 1 degree at 1836 feet per second, that shell is going to go 1700 yards before it hits the water. If fired at two degrees it will go 3000 yards. At 0 degrees it will only go 100 yards before hitting the water.

This is a lot of detail just to point out that the gunner can't just load and fire, or he will miss. I think 4 rounds per minute is real good unless the sea is literally dead calm. A six-INCH swell can make a big difference.
Pablo

XonE:32

08-02-05, 06:37 AM

The German U-boats of types I, VII, IX and X had a very powerful secondary weapon which was the deck gun. Each boat had one in front of the conning tower and with a good crew they could fire 15-18 rounds a minute. Often used to finish off damaged vessels or sink smaller ships the gun normally had a crew of 3 to 5 and was usually commanded by the second watch officer (IIWO).

In order to use the weapon the U-boat had to be on the surface naturally and it was normally not used when aircraft were suspected to be around. It required a line of men (3 which on the deck) to transport the ammunition from the main locker below the control room to the gun. The used rounds were taken back into the boat. The U-boats had a small water-proof ammunition locker for the gun on the deck in order to be able to start firing almost immediately when the order was given.

The smaller Type II coastal U-boats had no deck gun.

In 1937 it was planned to build the type XI U-boat cruisers. Those boats would have had 4 pieces of 12,7cm guns in two separate towers. They were not built (see our "U-boat projects and proposals" page).

The 8,8cm gun
The type VII U-boats had the 8,8cm gun. This weapon is not to be confused with the famous German Army 8,8 anti-tank / anti-aircraft gun which was probably the best weapon of the war, they did not even use the same ammunition. The 8,8cm gun fired a 12-14 kilogram round (9kg warhead), on board were usually 250 rounds. From June 1943 the Atlantic-boats left their bases without the deck gun. Only in the Mediterranean and the Northern Sea boats kept their guns for a few months longer. In July 1944 some of the VIIC boats from the 8th Flotilla in Königsberg got their guns back for the patrols in the Baltic Sea against the Russians.
The 88mm naval deck gun was not capable of anti-aircraft fire since its maximum elevation was only 30 degrees.
^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^
Source: Uboat.net

I'm a huge fan of Rub and have been since it came out. It's always been part of my SHIII. I understand what they're trying to accomplish by setting the reload time so high, just not sure if I'm down with it or not. Personally, I hardly ever get a chance to use the deck gun as the weather never seems to permit it. The stock gun is ultra lame I agree, but I feel 60 secs is slightly too far outa wack for historical accuracy. I'd rather just police myself on it's usage. Thanks for the files CCIP. It's appreciated. ;)

The Avon Lady

08-02-05, 07:08 AM

I wound up setting mine to 30 seconds. Keep in mind that's the fastest only with a fully efficient gun crew.

oRGy

08-02-05, 07:11 AM

Unfortunately this seems to be one of those areas where only individual effort on the part of the player can result in a realistic solution. That is, for the first 20 rounds or so, the reload time is pretty fast, and then falls to about 1/minute to 'simulate' the shells making their way up deck.

You can only expect the player to care enough here. But the RuB option enforces one aspect of realism (which is important) but then makes the other end unrealistic (which is equally important, as the fire rate for the first few minutes could easily be a matter of life and death).

Did anyone find a way of removing the stablisation of the deck gun though, yet? Or introducing a margin of error? And are the HE and other rounds removed in RuB? As Uboots only had AP shells in reality, no other types.

JayW.

08-14-05, 10:29 AM

I am not an expert on naval artillery nor I do not claim to be but, it seems to me that the sixty secondo reloading time is unrealistic.
I do remember a line from the film, Enemy Below, which was made by Robert Mitchum. The quote states simply that the deck gun of a german U-Boat in W.W.II had a better response time that a destroyer. Whether this quote is accurate or not, remember most of the destroyers in that time had automatic loading like the other worships of the time.
To aim, to load, and to fire took the men that were manning the guns aboard a destroyer about 15-20 seconds. You have to remember that although a U-Boat's main weapons were her torpedoes, they still have to fight in a gun duel with a destroyer while caught on the surface. And, I don't think the captains permit the crew to reload the deck gun at 60 seconds. When you can't submerge quickly and had to fight, you depended the crew to fire the deck gun quickly as they can..
Plus, we don't know where the shells for the deck gun were stored and how fast the crews actually were in reloading it.

JayW.

joea

08-14-05, 01:40 PM

I really doubt a u-boat deck gun could be a major threat to a DD even with a faster reaload time (depends on the DD too, a Fletcher would be a lot quicker than an old 4 stacker) the DD had better fire control, with a central director and range finder etc. One little 88, even reloading faster than 60 seconds would not stand up to 4 or more 5 inchers...maybe a bit better with a corvettes single 4 incher but still.

Kpt. Lehmann

08-14-05, 03:29 PM

.... not to mention the U-Boat deck gun crew was unprotected even against machinegun fire.

It seems like a dismal place to pick even an easy fight.

Beery

08-14-05, 04:48 PM

I wouldn't place too much faith in the scriptwriter from 'The Enemy Below'. I doubt whether historical accuracy was top on his list of priorities. :88)

Hartmann

08-14-05, 08:38 PM

I think that the reload time is too high

i served in the army , in a 105/14 mm howitzer artillery and the reload time was about 15 or 20 seconds for a medium training soldiers.

Pablo

08-14-05, 10:45 PM

Plus, we don't know where the shells for the deck gun were stored and how fast the crews actually were in reloading it.

JayW.
Hi!

Actually, we know that U-boats stored up to 20 rounds in a ready-to-use locker just to port and forward of the deck gun, with more ammunition being brought up from below through the conning tower hatch, then (in at least one instance) down a chute to the ammunition handlers on deck. We also know the maximum rate of fire was about 15 to 18 rounds per minute, provided ammunition was available.

Here are a few couple of points of comparison: a 19th century sailing warship, using a well-trained crew to serve muzzle-loading, smooth-bore cannon, could fire, load, and fire again in just over a minute (ref: HMS Dreadnought at the Battle of Trafalgar, with three broadside cycles in 3.5 minutes). Army field artillery of the same period could fire from three rounds to five rounds per minute, depending on crew quality; however, the army artillerymen had an advantage over the naval gun crews in that the naval guns (weighing up to two or three tons) had to be dragged back up to the gunports to be fired again, while the field artillery could be fired in place.

Pablo

Beery

08-15-05, 12:23 AM

I think that the reload time is too high

i served in the army , in a 105/14 mm howitzer artillery and the reload time was about 15 or 20 seconds for a medium training soldiers.

Did these soldiers have to bring 90% of the ammo they used, one shell at a time, through three tiny rooms, up a 12ft ladder, down a six foot ladder, and across a slippery deck before loading it? Did they have to de-waterproof the gun before using it? Were they firing at a moving target while they themselves were bobbing up and down and pitching and rolling as on the sea?

The Avon Lady

08-15-05, 02:42 AM

Were they firing at a moving target while they themselves were bobbing up and down and pitching and rolling as on the sea?
While pitching and rolling?

In SH3?!

You've got to be kidding!!

The onlt chance I have to use the deck gun in SH3 is when the Atlantic takes on the properties of Mirror Lake!

:roll:

Beery

08-15-05, 07:57 AM

JayW.

08-15-05, 08:49 AM

I have the 20 second reloading time but it could be 30 seconds. What a hay. It works for me. :up:

Hi Avon Lady. How are you, you, foxy thing, you? :P :lol:

Patboot

09-13-05, 08:21 PM

Bump up from the abyss...

What about the FlaK?

Patboot

09-13-05, 08:23 PM

Bump- how about Flak guns?

CCIP

09-13-05, 09:10 PM

What's wrong with the flak guns? They're pretty OK as far as reload time, nothing like the the deck guns.

If you have something specific in mind, I could put a file together for you. Keep in mind that all the data for ALL guns on the sub is stored in the same file, so the number of optional GUNS_SUB.sim files you'd have to include would be pretty dizzying to get a range of options.

But again, if you have some specific set of gun values in mind... I can get you the values you want pretty easily :up:

Patboot

09-13-05, 10:00 PM

Not the reload time...although that might be something to consider, as I'd giggle silly with a C-38 with a RoF of ohh...say....

3,000 rpm?

Like a Vulcan?

The twin 37 would be fun too, I think-

Too many Uber-Real mods to choose from, how about a couple of just-plain-fun-shoot -the hell-out-of-everything?

Patboot

09-25-05, 01:51 PM

*kick for some Phalanx AAA love*

Patboot

09-25-05, 11:14 PM

Oh, CCIP? Tried that .0001 time patch.

Pure evil, Bro... One thing though, I noticed some aimpoint climb in rapid fire. My imagination, or no? Also, the fire rate is so fast the muzzle flash/smoke obscures the target.

I think I wanna have your babies.

JScones

09-26-05, 06:40 AM

For info, the next version of SH3 Commander will provide users the ability to enter any reload time in seconds between 0 and 120, for both the 88 and 105mm deck guns.

Beery

09-26-05, 05:10 PM

And zero is absolutely hilarious. Well, at least I think so, but I'm easily amused.

homeless1

09-27-05, 02:09 AM

DLing new updates as we speak. Haven't played for a while, but does/will SH Commander provide an option to modify the DG ammo loadout?

I usually manually change the file to give myself only HE (which is all I believe U-boats carried in RL).

Cheers.

Patboot

10-23-05, 10:32 PM

Le Boute- for a Phalanx 3,000 prm rate of AAA fire!

please?

Kpt. Lehmann

10-23-05, 10:43 PM

I would like an 8 megawatt laser please!!! :rotfl: Or a fusion cannon! :rotfl:

WhiteW0lf

02-08-06, 10:28 AM

Links Broken

Sailor Steve

02-08-06, 01:09 PM

Get SHIII Commander-gun reload time is one of it's many functions.

CCIP

02-08-06, 08:26 PM

Yeah, the more recent SHIII commander versions have made this mod obsolete, so I don't see a reason to re-upload it. Rather, I see another excuse to make everyone get Commander :smug:

Der Teddy Bar

02-08-06, 09:25 PM

CCIP

02-08-06, 09:51 PM

Yeah, the more recent SHIII commander versions have made this mod obsolete, so I don't see a reason to re-upload it. Rather, I see another excuse to make everyone get Commander :smug:
The NYGM Ship Damage Mod makes having to adjust the reload times absolete :up:

That also! :)

And I'm all too glad, since both Commander and NYGM finally eliminate the oldest and most bitter subject of mod-flaming around here :hmm:

whiteviper

02-23-07, 10:21 AM

Get SHIII Commander-gun reload time is one of it's many functions.

Sorry, I am a newbie here.

How can I use SHIII commander to amend the gun reloading time?

Many Thanks

danlisa

02-23-07, 10:31 AM

Welcome mate:sunny:

It's always nice to see old threads again.;)

YES, you can use SH3Cmdr to alter your reload time for the deck gun. IIRC you choose SH3 options and then Gamplay Options from within SH3Cmdr's menu.

Good Hunting.

Morts

02-23-07, 10:38 AM

is 6000 RPM not rapid enough for you? :-j
thats.....far..from...enough
must...have...atleast....10000....RPM..at...slowes t :stare:

im a gun addict and i just cant take such a slow 88/105....only 6000 rpm? :rotfl:

Jimbuna

02-23-07, 11:01 AM

Reload times Aprox 4/5 seconds (not taking into account the seastate)
http://uboat.net/technical/guns.htm

danurve

02-23-07, 11:10 AM

Im having trouble finding the adjustment in Commander for my new deck gun.

http://www.advancedspuds.com/revxback.jpg

Luckily the crew has sacrificed a bunk space to stock Potatos.

CCIP

02-23-07, 04:09 PM

Come on guys, stop making fun of obsolete mods :rotfl: (mine, no less)

Yes, the right answer is SH3 Commander; it's under the game options and can now be set to anything.

I'm gonna lock this thread since, well, I think we've found out all we needed here :)