Sabotage/Malfunctions Mod Update May 15

[HEMISENT]

Since there are so many new people here lately and many are not aware of the progression of so many of the great mods that are around I thought I'd update this. It was last updated prior to release of SH3 Commander 2.6. Some players are experiencing glitches, inoperable systems, "bugs" and other things previously not experienced and may be "blaming" SH3 Commander for these problems-most of these "malfunctions" are exactly that...malfunctions.
For those that don't read the read me's SH3 Commander offers an included set of mods which I came up with. One is a "Thermal Layer" mod that simulates the effects of thermal layers and an escort's diminished ability to locate and or maintain contact with a submarine.
The other is a mod called Sabotage/Malfunctions. This mod attempts to simulate the effects to a U Boat of either Sabotage(after June 1944) or Malfunctions to certain sub-systems on the boat-in other words wear and tear, poor or unrepaired battle damage etc.

From the beginning;
June 1944 The allies invaded Normandy. This event emboldened French Resistance and Partisans throughout the area. U Boat bases saw an upswing in sabotage and unexplained maladies affecting the boats. It is common knowledge that shipyards used huge amounts of local labor to perform everything from standard maintainance to complete refits. The boat crews found themselves forced to deal with an increasing number of problems as the war progressed.
Some of these were directly related to sabotage and others were the results of just plain poor and unperformed maintainance.
The ill fated U 505 was known as a bad luck boat as it left and immediately returned due to systems failures on numerous occasions. Some accounts have the crew being accused of cowardice for always returning soon after departure.
Right now I have completed the initial stages of a sabotage mod based on the Random capabilities of SH3 Commander. Testing has been completed on the individual systems but the random folder structure is under development.
Unlike my Thermal Layer mod requiring 10 Random folders which are easily managed this Sabotage mod has a much large number of files affected and I can envision a vastly larger number of Random folders to allow for a believable ratio. That ratio has not been determined yet as the dates play a huge part of all this. As an example, in June 1944 you may experience a 10% chance of discovering a problem whereas in Oct 1944 that ratio may be as high as 50%

1. The system damage to the boat may be noticed immediately upon departure requiring an immediate return.
2. The system damage to the boat may not be discovered until you are well out to sea and it may be minor and can be compensated for allowing the boat to continue patrol.
3. The system damage to the boat may not be discovered until you are well out to sea and may require the immediate return to base using extreme caution.
4. A combination of systems failures is being looked into also.

Jscones has been contacted to see if there is a way for Commander to introduce these variables into the system without requiring the large number of random folders.

Types VIIC + all Type IX's affected

Systems affected:
Diesel & Elect max speed
Indicative of malfunction or sabotage prohibiting eng or E motors from attaining their maxinum speed potential. Possible sabotage to clutching/transmission components allowing engines/motors to achieve desired RPM but shafts themselves are not turning the correct RPM to produce required speed.

Diesel Range
Indicative of either leaking fuel tanks or engine fuel management system using excessive amounts of diesel to achieve desired performance.

E Motors Range
Indicative of worn out used batteries installed in place of fresh units on refit or
sabotage to existing batteries. Batteries are able to charge as normal but do not hold the charge as long as specifications require.

Dive times increased
Simulating faulty or sabotaged valves or manifolds.
Reduced the amount/rate of incoming water required to rid the boat of bouyancy. This increases the standard & crash dive times by 25 - 35%.

Schnorkel Activation
Raising/lowering Schnorkel times dramatically increased. Indicative of damaged, malfunctioning or sabotaged lifting mechanism. Schnorkel will still operate as normal once in upright position.

Attack Periscope
Water Blurred lens does not clear up requires use of observation scope as backup. Indicative of either shock damage or intentional damage to lens seals.

Rudder
Turn radius increased by 25%.Indicative of damage to steering mechanism or rudders mechanisms binding, incapable of turning fully left/right.

Many thanks to Jscones, Rubini, Gouldjg and a host of others for the advice, kind words and encouragement so far. The project requires a huge amount of testing and is still a ways off but so far everything is looking really good.
************************************************** ********
Malfunctions
All Type VII, IX &XXI's will be affected.

As the war progressed malfunctions and mechanical breakdowns all played a part in everyday life aboard a U Boat. Older boats long since their prime were kept in service. Complete refits or overhauls were constantly rescheduled or put off for as long as possible. Plain old wear and tear, shoddy maintainance and an increasing lack of spare parts all played a role in the gradual degredation in performance. Some problems were blatantly apparent during initial test dives requiring immediate return for further repairs while others were not noticed until the boat was far out to sea and had to be dealt with accordingly.
Similiar to the Sabotage mod some of the areas affected are:
Max speed.
Range
Dive times
Crash Depths
Periscope & Schnorkel performance
Some of the files from Sabotage will be crossed over directly while others
will be edited or fine tuned to be more of an irritant than a reason to turn
back to port.

Unlike the Sabotage mod which deals with the last months of the war this
"Malfunctions" component will start at the beginning of the war and gradually increase as the years progress. Using the random function in SH3 Commander older model boats such as the VIIB & IXB will be more prone to mechanical problems than the newer versions in the earlier years. By 1943 however wear and tear will begin affecting all U Boats equally. The type XXI's are an entirely different story and will be affected from their earliest entry dates. In truth the XXI's will probably be included in an update as I haven't even gotten around to editing them yet.

Individual file testing is nearly complete(except for the XXI) however the
random structure has yet to be built, this area actually requires the most time as it has to "feel" right and requires a huge amount of running and re-running identical scenarios. I need to get with Jscones regarding whether or not he wants to build Sabotage/Malfunctions into an updated version of Commander or if I should plan to release it using the Random folder structure.

Right now, thanks to Jscones & Commander random Thermal Layers is a
reality. Gouldjg's upcoming random "Chaos" mod (testing now and it really is something) plus random Sabotage/Malfunctions means that SHIII is a whole new ballgame. We now have the ability to come come up with a truly unique scenario with potentially hundreds of thousands of variables
guaranteeing that the player will never experience the same thing twice.
And I think we've only scratched the surface.
Stay tuned.

In addition to these there is also:
Flak Guns jamming after first clip fired
Radar effective range diminished.
XXI boat completed & included in Commander 2.6

[AG124]

This sounds like it could be good. :hmm: Keep us updated on your progress.

[VonHelsching]

Excellent news!

I hope this, along with Thermal Layers mod, will be the basis of a new concept for the game!

[Rubini]

Hemisent,

Check your PM again.

Rubini.

[Barkhorn1x]

Just my humble opinion here of course, but sometimes in a search for hardcore realism we lose sight of what makes a good game.

To be historically accurate in June of 1944 you would need to recreat a U-boat sailing and then being hunted mercilessly - and SUNK - by dedicated H/K groups before it gets a chance to do any damage.

As it is now things get tough - but the reality was an almost impossibilty of success.

For me an event like, "The system damage to the boat may not be discovered until you are well out to sea and may require the immediate return to base using extreme caution." would not be enjoyable.

But hey, to all of you masochists out there, ENJOY.

Barkhorn.

[AlanSmithee]

Originally Posted by Barkhorn1x

But hey, to all of you masochists out there, ENJOY.

At least half of the enjoyment of subsims is masochism. Why else would I spend hours crossing the Atlantic, only to fire torpedos that are duds at ships that don't seem to ever sink?

In any case, I'm looking forward to the mod. One question, though. You say that some sabotage won't be discovered until out at sea. How will the occurrance of the damage be delayed until then?

[HEMISENT]

Originally Posted by AlanSmithee

In any case, I'm looking forward to the mod. One question, though. You say that some sabotage won't be discovered until out at sea. How will the occurrance of the damage be delayed until then?

Hi Alan
1. Limited top speed. you may not have any indications until you ask for Flank and the boat falls on its face.
2. Snorkel extension times up to 1hr-no more dive to snorkel depth and wait 10 seconds for the snort to raise up.
3. Limited e motor speeds.
4. Crash dive times increased

The edited files will exist from when you Launch SH3 thru Commander
You will only notice something is not right when you require a different speed or behavior or setting and find something is amiss. Usually this happens at the most inopportune time. Keep in mind this is "Random" and you will not be issued a "loaded" file by Commander each and every time.


Like the TL mod. Many aspects of it are very subtle. No bells and whistles going off. Once again the players at the upper edges of the realism scale will probably see the most benefit-it's something that may not be for everyone.

I like it. I'd like it if it was just "random breakdowns"; doesn't even have to be sabotage to make me happy.

[Salvadoreno]

well do the random breakdowns happen before 1944 as well?? Breakdowns were common, not as much as after June 1944 but they were still around. Mostly diesel problems are torpedoe tube malfunctions.. Can we see breakdowns before 1944 as well?

[HEMISENT]

Originally Posted by Salvadoreno

well do the random breakdowns happen before 1944 as well?? Breakdowns were common, not as much as after June 1944 but they were still around. Mostly diesel problems are torpedoe tube malfunctions.. Can we see breakdowns before 1944 as well?

Right now I've only focused on the area between June 1944 and beyond
Random breakdowns or mechanical glitches is a possibility but I need to get the later war stuff working correctly first. If it works out as well as I think then changing dates on folders should be a simple task.
Right now it's all about ratios and testing. Too often and it's no fun-too seldom and you never see the benefit of installing it.

Gouldjg is working on something also that may be able to incorporate
that in too. He's dealing with dates from the begining of the war. I'll run it by him when he gets back.

[lafeeverted]

the possibility of "sabotage" or a random breakdown is a great addition. How it can be effectively incorporated and how each player chooses to deal with it remains to be seen. The randomization through SH3 commander enables the effect. As has been suggested for TL, save and reload after each battle to simulate changing sea conditions could also work here. You may discover a random breakdown/sabotage but it wouldn't neccesarily mean you would have to abort your patrol. Saving and reloading would again shuffle the files and possibly remove the problem but engage another. The time you as a player decided to live with the breakdown depends on your level of realism. Perhaps a guide would need to be written so that if a problem were repairable at sea you would be told how long that repair would take so that you would need to play out that period of game time before the save/reload.

This is a great idea, making it work within the limits of SH3 will be the challenge.

Perhaps a combination of the ability of SH3Gen and SH3 Cmndr could be combined. One program could organize and shuffle the random files as well as write to the patrol logs what damage has occured and how long it will take to fix. SH3 Gen recommends getting clear of home port before using its function(stationary ships sink other waypoint issues) it wold also work here in a sense that if you did reciecve a critical damage problem you would not be to far away to return to base. Writing the damage report to the patrol log would remove the surprise factor but you could also do that by running through your systems at the start of each patrol.

[Montbrun]

The time period 9/39-6ish/41 would be a good period to apply your MOD to for simulating the finicky engines at this time....

[gouldjg]

I can’t really work on anything solid as of yet, but soon I will be doing a varied Hollywood and Cfg files in a month or two. Anyone else should feel free to take this forward if they understand the principle and are not as tied down as i am with other business.

Simple things first and small steps to be safe is the best way to go.

Rule 1 = Pick a simple file such as cfg to start a beta

Rule 2 = Set a golden rule, mine is to start in increments of 3% up to max 20% plus or minus either way/stronger or weaker. Lets call it wear and tear and poor manufacturing as well as bad luck.

Rule 3 = Create the occasional special event i.e. rapid sinking effect etc etc. Different sinking style, different effects.

Rule 4 = Don’t go crazy as this could easily get out of hand. The reason the golden rule is only 20% is in case we then alter other stuff at a later date that could have a knock on effect i.e. guns, shell files.


I will probably just do about 50-100 variations of ship and sub damage via Hollywood or similar zones cfg as a base line. Would be best to see what GW produce and compare with NYGM and then find a middle ground base line.

(I actually think everyone could just contribute by picking a couple of things to adjust and as long as they do not exceed the golden rules of max 20% changes for the majority of things, everything will be fine but vary so no one game is the same.) Hollywood and combined Hollywoods as well as other peoples versions of the CFG could all be tweaked easily enough and yet still have great effects in game.

It’s the one of treats i.e. which require more work and planning.

The hopeful thing maybe is that SH3 commander may one day allow me to paste all variations in one text file as the zones is just a notepad file. A bit similar to the fatigue models. Then we maybe could just hit a randomise button and not know what has been loaded for that particular voyage.

Yes a very long file but worth it, I am sure. I cannot promise any random breakdowns but I can make certain systems more prone to severe damage/failure during DC attacks and it wont be repetitive and that’s the key. Imagine lining up your AA guns for the usual 3rd pass downing of a plane, only to find out it takes four or five passes or maybe just one pass.

This would be beautifully capped off if we can find the code that controls repair times and that is something that has eluded me from the beginning.


If this simple beta works, I ill probably move on to other stuff i.e. shells, DD sensors etc but this would need either sh3 commander or another more updated version of time travellers tools as well as the co-op of those whom know the areas.

Once a suitable test, readme and the tools are available I think we will see many varied files appearing i.e. random crew responces etc.

One could really go to town in their own little corner of expertise.

In the meantime think about it as it is just an idea at the moment.

I am waiting to see if GW and NYGM somehow get the ability to co-exists in a installation as I really do not want to be making a mod that has then got to be adjusted for other major mods(actually it does not really matter really as the other mods can just do it themselves for their setups). I am sure everyone will be busy for a while on the new big mods until then.

[gouldjg]

Just to add a further point to this.

If I or someone just copy a zones.cfg into excel format then surely I/they can do all the random variants a lot quicker e.g produce a formula that auto adds increments.

The same could be done with sim.cfgs etc

Then it is just a case of copying back into a cfg and deleting each column as i go to avoid duplication.

Ok lets get the big mods released and see where the baseline will be and

I will get a copy of zones cfg and create this unless someone is going to be faster i.e. better excel skills with formula and not so much a hectic lifestyle.

Yep it actually will be quite easy to do once It gets started.

Sry for spamming your thread Hemisent,

For a moment I forgot my web edicate,

[andy_311]

Would this Mod affect your mission?,ie coukd the problem be fixed while on patrol or would you have to abandon your assinment and return to base?