Hedgehog

flugkapitan · 04-22-15, 07:51 PM

Greetings!

Just wanted to post that I've finally made it to June 1944. I'm in a Type IXC/40. On my way south to the EJ98 quadrant, I encountered a small convoy with 4 escorts. Sank a large merchant and a passenger/cargo.

All I can say is the Hedgehogs are uber bad ass

Given the escorts capabilities at this stage of the war, attacking the convoy probably wasn't the wisest tactical (to say nothing of a bad career move!) decision on my part

Amazing how I'm still enjoying this sim after all these years. Many thanks to all the modders out there an also to those that have provided advice in this forum

Cheers,
Scott

Torplexed · 04-22-15, 07:57 PM

When hedgehogs start to show up on the fore-decks of escorts is about the time I start taking very long range pot shots at convoys. Once the torpedoes are clear of the tubes I just creep away as fast and as deep as I can. Maybe I miss the convoy completely, but I just don't want to take the chance of being in the sonar cone of an escort so equipped.

Aktungbby · 04-22-15, 09:27 PM

Actually the sonar cone had little to do with it hence the hedgehog-to alleviate the 'blind spot' of a sonar contact. The Hedgehog became much more successful than depth-charge attacks (the best kill rate was about 25% of attacks whereas depth charges never achieved more than 7%). It initially had a very poor record, although many of the factors had nothing to do with the design of the weapon. USS England sank six Japanese submarines in a matter of days with Hedgehog in May 1944.

<

<....The group discovered U-853 type IX-C/40 bottomed in 18 fathoms (108 ft; 33 m),

and dropped depth charges and hedgehogs during a 16 hour attack. At first the U-boat attempted to flee, and then tried to hide by lying still. Both times it was found by sonar.The morning of 6 May 1945 two K-Class blimps from Lakehurst, New Jersey, K-16 and K-58, joined the attack, locating oil slicks and marking suspected locations with smoke and dye markers. K-16 also attacked with 7.2-inch rocket bombs. Numerous depth charge and hedgehog attacks from Atherton and Moberly resulted in planking, life rafts, a chart tabletop, clothing, and an officer's cap floating to the surface. With the loss of all 55 officers and men, U-853 was one of the last U-boats sunk during World War II. and, with U-881, the last to be sunk in US waters. Atherton and Moberly received credit for the kill.

<U-853 now at 121 feet thirteen miles off Block Island, Rhode Island [wiki]

http://www.aquaexplorers.com/u-853_shipwreck.htm The U-boats' sinking was after Donitz's transmitted order to cease offensive operations on May 1 1945!??

Marcello · 04-23-15, 05:12 AM

Hedgehogs are dangerous even for a XXI if you aren't careful. Standoff attacks would be nice but unless you are messing with Ingolin fueled torpedoes I am not sure they are really workable in 1944-1945. From what I remember the destroyer screens at least in the big convoys are such that even the wet-heater on slow settings come up short. And I f I have to start to dodge destroyers then might as well get close with electrics. Of course the VII/IX in 1944-45 were going out largely to tie down allied assets, sinking something and surviving was extra.

Jimbuna · 04-23-15, 06:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flugkapitan

Greetings!

Just wanted to post that I've finally made it to June 1944. I'm in a Type IXC/40. On my way south to the EJ98 quadrant, I encountered a small convoy with 4 escorts. Sank a large merchant and a passenger/cargo.

All I can say is the Hedgehogs are uber bad ass

Given the escorts capabilities at this stage of the war, attacking the convoy probably wasn't the wisest tactical (to say nothing of a bad career move!) decision on my part

Amazing how I'm still enjoying this sim after all these years. Many thanks to all the modders out there an also to those that have provided advice in this forum

Cheers,
Scott

A change in tactics is usually warranted at this period in time, either attacking from a longer distance to avoid possible detection or getting up real close so the hedgehog isn't a viable option for the convoy escorts.

The former is the safer option but the latter can be far more challenging and gameplay immersive.

sublynx · 04-23-15, 08:07 AM

Those pictures of a hedgehog battery and the pattern visible on the water after launch gives me the creeps. If I see a nightmare this night I'm sure it has a hedgehog in it

UKönig · 04-23-15, 12:52 PM

Fantastic photos!

If there is one thing I like more than looking at ship pictures, it's looking at ship-wreck pictures.

Cool stuff, sad story...

maillemaker · 04-23-15, 03:50 PM

Quote:

When hedgehogs start to show up on the fore-decks of escorts is about the time I start taking very long range pot shots at convoys. Once the torpedoes are clear of the tubes I just creep away as fast and as deep as I can. Maybe I miss the convoy completely, but I just don't want to take the chance of being in the sonar cone of an escort so equipped.

Yup, once the hedgehogs show up, it's time for Hail Mary torpedo attacks.

Until you get homing torpedoes.

Then it's open season on escorts.

Steve

Aktungbby · 04-23-15, 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sublynx

Those pictures of a hedgehog battery and the pattern visible on the water after launch gives me the creeps. If I see a nightmare this night I'm sure it has a hedgehog in it

Quote:

Originally Posted by UKönig

Fantastic photos!

If there is one thing I like more than looking at ship pictures, it's looking at ship-wreck pictures.

Cool stuff, sad story...

Glad you enjoyed them! the one picture immediately after the circular pattern shot- I did not initially include- shows they all (24 spigot bombs) hit the way too shallow 18 fathom bottom and detonated...simultaneously.

A terrible waste of life when considering the missed message to surrender from ADM Dönitz. Why the U-boat did not rise and surrender remains ...an enigma.

Jimbuna · 04-24-15, 06:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sublynx

Those pictures of a hedgehog battery and the pattern visible on the water after launch gives me the creeps. If I see a nightmare this night I'm sure it has a hedgehog in it

Jax von May · 04-24-15, 07:50 AM

Nice. Ive sunk a few million MT, but never managed to keep a crew beyond a single camp\aign... mod addiction i guess.

Quote:

Originally Posted by flugkapitan

Greetings!

Just wanted to post that I've finally made it to June 1944. I'm in a Type IXC/40. On my way south to the EJ98 quadrant, I encountered a small convoy with 4 escorts. Sank a large merchant and a passenger/cargo.

All I can say is the Hedgehogs are uber bad ass

Given the escorts capabilities at this stage of the war, attacking the convoy probably wasn't the wisest tactical (to say nothing of a bad career move!) decision on my part

Amazing how I'm still enjoying this sim after all these years. Many thanks to all the modders out there an also to those that have provided advice in this forum

Cheers,
Scott

sublynx · 04-24-15, 08:12 AM

Great shots but extremely detrimental to my willingness to confront the enemy!

Jimbuna · 04-24-15, 09:54 AM

BE MORE AGGRESSIVE!!

Aktungbby · 04-24-15, 10:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sublynx

Great shots but extremely detrimental to my willingness to confront the enemy!

What I find ironic is the Germanic /Norse mythological And Wagnerian sense of it all. Hitler really liked Wagner- incorporating what he could into Nazi myth and one of the great themes is Siegfried's heroic entering into the 'Ring of Fire' from Der Ring des Nibelungen. Not too many U-bootwaffen Siegfried's survived this 'ring of fire' ...only the Götterdämmerung of a watery bourn

great pic! all 24 splashes seem to be there!

UKönig · 04-24-15, 12:23 PM

I think those pictures clearly illustrate the effectiveness of the hedgehog launcher.
In a type VII or IX, at creep speed, like 1-3 knots, you aren't going to be fast enough to get out of the way. No dashing to the left or right, or staying straight ahead. If you are moving at flank speed, like 7 knots, then you are making enough racket that they can use their regular 500lbs bombs without relying on the hedgehog system. Really, only the type XXI had the dash ability to get out of the way in time, and they were never used in battle.

04-22-15, 07:51 PM	#1
flugkapitan Loader Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 84 Downloads: 47 Uploads: 0	Hedgehog Greetings! Just wanted to post that I've finally made it to June 1944. I'm in a Type IXC/40. On my way south to the EJ98 quadrant, I encountered a small convoy with 4 escorts. Sank a large merchant and a passenger/cargo. All I can say is the Hedgehogs are uber bad ass Given the escorts capabilities at this stage of the war, attacking the convoy probably wasn't the wisest tactical (to say nothing of a bad career move!) decision on my part Amazing how I'm still enjoying this sim after all these years. Many thanks to all the modders out there an also to those that have provided advice in this forum Cheers, Scott

04-22-15, 07:57 PM	#2
Torplexed Let's Sink Sumptin' ! Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 5,823 Downloads: 43 Uploads: 0	When hedgehogs start to show up on the fore-decks of escorts is about the time I start taking very long range pot shots at convoys. Once the torpedoes are clear of the tubes I just creep away as fast and as deep as I can. Maybe I miss the convoy completely, but I just don't want to take the chance of being in the sonar cone of an escort so equipped. __________________ --Mobilis in Mobili--

04-22-15, 09:27 PM	#3
Aktungbby Gefallen Engel U-666 Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: On a tilted, overheated, overpopulated spinning mudball on Collision course with Andromeda Galaxy Posts: 29,986 Downloads: 24 Uploads: 0	U-853 and a hedgehog demise at the very last! Actually the sonar cone had little to do with it hence the hedgehog-to alleviate the 'blind spot' of a sonar contact. The Hedgehog became much more successful than depth-charge attacks (the best kill rate was about 25% of attacks whereas depth charges never achieved more than 7%). It initially had a very poor record, although many of the factors had nothing to do with the design of the weapon. USS England sank six Japanese submarines in a matter of days with Hedgehog in May 1944. <<....The group discovered U-853 type IX-C/40 bottomed in 18 fathoms (108 ft; 33 m), and dropped depth charges and hedgehogs during a 16 hour attack. At first the U-boat attempted to flee, and then tried to hide by lying still. Both times it was found by sonar.The morning of 6 May 1945 two K-Class blimps from Lakehurst, New Jersey, K-16 and K-58, joined the attack, locating oil slicks and marking suspected locations with smoke and dye markers. K-16 also attacked with 7.2-inch rocket bombs. Numerous depth charge and hedgehog attacks from Atherton and Moberly resulted in planking, life rafts, a chart tabletop, clothing, and an officer's cap floating to the surface. With the loss of all 55 officers and men, U-853 was one of the last U-boats sunk during World War II. and, with U-881, the last to be sunk in US waters. Atherton and Moberly received credit for the kill. <U-853 now at 121 feet thirteen miles off Block Island, Rhode Island [wiki]http://www.aquaexplorers.com/u-853_shipwreck.htm The U-boats' sinking was *after* Donitz's transmitted order to cease offensive operations on May 1 1945!?? __________________ "Only two things are infinite; The Universe and human squirrelyness?!! Last edited by Aktungbby; 04-22-15 at 09:43 PM.

04-23-15, 08:07 AM	#6
sublynx Sea Lord Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: In the conning tower of my VIIC scanning the sea through the periscope Posts: 1,698 Downloads: 173 Uploads: 7	Those pictures of a hedgehog battery and the pattern visible on the water after launch gives me the creeps. If I see a nightmare this night I'm sure it has a hedgehog in it __________________ [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] NYGM+H.sie v16+Stiebler 4C+MaGui WS

04-23-15, 12:52 PM	#7
UKönig Captain Join Date: Apr 2014 Location: Victoria, British Columbia, Canada Posts: 495 Downloads: 1 Uploads: 0	Fantastic photos! If there is one thing I like more than looking at ship pictures, it's looking at ship-wreck pictures. Cool stuff, sad story... __________________ Because I'm the captain, that's why!

04-23-15, 05:12 AM	#4
Marcello Planesman Join Date: Nov 2012 Posts: 183 Downloads: 49 Uploads: 0	Hedgehogs are dangerous even for a XXI if you aren't careful. Standoff attacks would be nice but unless you are messing with Ingolin fueled torpedoes I am not sure they are really workable in 1944-1945. From what I remember the destroyer screens at least in the big convoys are such that even the wet-heater on slow settings come up short. And I f I have to start to dodge destroyers then might as well get close with electrics. Of course the VII/IX in 1944-45 were going out largely to tie down allied assets, sinking something and surviving was extra.

04-24-15, 08:12 AM	#12
sublynx Sea Lord Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: In the conning tower of my VIIC scanning the sea through the periscope Posts: 1,698 Downloads: 173 Uploads: 7	Great shots but extremely detrimental to my willingness to confront the enemy! __________________ [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] NYGM+H.sie v16+Stiebler 4C+MaGui WS

04-24-15, 09:54 AM	#13
Jimbuna Chief of the Boat Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: 250 metres below the surface Posts: 190,473 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 13	BE MORE AGGRESSIVE!! __________________ Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something. Oh my God, not again!!

04-24-15, 12:23 PM	#15
UKönig Captain Join Date: Apr 2014 Location: Victoria, British Columbia, Canada Posts: 495 Downloads: 1 Uploads: 0	I think those pictures clearly illustrate the effectiveness of the hedgehog launcher. In a type VII or IX, at creep speed, like 1-3 knots, you aren't going to be fast enough to get out of the way. No dashing to the left or right, or staying straight ahead. If you are moving at flank speed, like 7 knots, then you are making enough racket that they can use their regular 500lbs bombs without relying on the hedgehog system. Really, only the type XXI had the dash ability to get out of the way in time, and they were never used in battle. __________________ Because I'm the captain, that's why!