Help needed

[TaTi94]

Hi guys, I'm new to the game, but I play SH4 with Trigger Maru 2.5 on realistic settings, so I'm not that bad. But I have a few questions regarding some really basic stuff:
1) Do merchants have sonar?
2) Are every sonar's range the same? (destroyer, sub, merchant)
3) Where is the safe zone to surface around merchants and destroyers or convoys? (So they don't see me!) because I know that my sonar's range is 20 km(even tho the sonarman only reports targets at 15-10km) and when I surface,
I can already see my target and I don't know if he saw me! I don't want an answer like x.xx km! Just aprox.
4) surface radar's range

I know that these answers are out there in front of my eyes, but belive me, I have looked for them. Sorry for my english, it's not my first lang. AND THANX

[Cybermat47]

No, merchants don't have sonar. In fact, none of the Japanese ships should. They should just have hydrophones.

If the game has IJN ships with sonar, then the range of the sonar does not depend on the ship, but the type of sonar.

A safe area to surface would be about 20km away.

[merc4ulfate]

There is no safe zone unless there are no contacts to report. Hydrophone, sonar types as well as weather conditions will all affect how far away you could be spotted. Just like in real life ... your taking your chances with every move you make.

[Armistead]

Sonar ranges vary from stock to mod, but are effected by many values, speed, water conditions, crew ratings, etc..

[ColonelSandersLite]

1: Yes, Japanese merchants in both tmo and stock have hydrophones. I'm not sure if it's something that starts at a certain year or from the beginning of the war. Personally, I just assume they're listening at all times.

2: No, the merchants have hydrophone sets of lesser quality than the destroyers. You will be able to hear the surface vessels from *much* further away than they can hear you when you're running quiet.

3: Based solely on my own experience using tmo (and this will vary from mod to mod), I would call *safe* distance at about 6 miles during daylight and 5,000 yards at night, assuming clear skies for both. You can get a lot closer than that though, it depends on aspect ratio crew rating of the enemy vessel, weather, your speed etc. If everything goes right, it's possible to get within at least 1,500 yards of a merchantman on the surface at night with clear skies. Just keep in mind that you are *much* smaller than they are. The next time you notice a sampan, notice how much closer you had to be to spot then than an 8,000 ton freighter. Same principle.

4: About 10 miles for the early war set, further for the late war set.

[Red October1984]

Originally Posted by merc4ulfate

There is no safe zone unless there are no contacts to report. Hydrophone, sonar types as well as weather conditions will all affect how far away you could be spotted. Just like in real life ... your taking your chances with every move you make.

Even then, I'd take a look topside with the periscope and radar before you surface. There was one time where I surfaced after a few hours of no contacts and 2 destroyers were stopped in the water about 5km away. This is why i now take good looks around before surfacing.

[TaTi94]

WOW thanks everyone! I never thought I would get answers this fast! I'll experiment with the ranges and see if they spot me or not! Salute to all of you!

[Red October1984]

Originally Posted by TaTi94

WOW thanks everyone! I never thought I would get answers this fast! I'll experiment with the ranges and see if they spot me or not! Salute to all of you!

Subsim is that wonderful internet forum where all the users are friendly and all of your questions are answered.

Welcome Aboard, Herr Kaleun

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by Cybermat47

In fact, none of the Japanese ships should. They should just have hydrophones.

Are you sure?
http://pwencycl.kgbudge.com/T/y/Type...el_3_sonar.htm
http://pwencycl.kgbudge.com/T/y/Type...el_1_sonar.htm

[Cybermat47]

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

Are you sure?
http://pwencycl.kgbudge.com/T/y/Type...el_3_sonar.htm
http://pwencycl.kgbudge.com/T/y/Type...el_1_sonar.htm

And, once more, Sailor Steve teaches me something.

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by Cybermat47

And, once more, Sailor Steve teaches me something.

But be sure and note that those arrays weren't available until 1942. It's also a singular oddity that in an attempt to aid ASW efforts, some merchants were fitted with depth charges. I don't think they had hydrophones, but it's been awhile since I read the relevant papers, and the memory is fuzzy.

[ColonelSandersLite]

Forgot to mention:

AFAIK, while the Japanese merchants have hydrophones, they do not have active sonar. In other words, only the destroyers will ping you. I'm not sure if any of the capital ships can either.

I remember reading somewhere that one of the Japanese carriers was actually outfitted with a hydrophone set and a pair of depth charge racks for defense. I don't know if this was ever actually used in real life (I doubt it) or if it was ever implemented in the sim or not.

[ColonelSandersLite]

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

But be sure and note that those arrays weren't available until 1942. It's also a singular oddity that in an attempt to aid ASW efforts, some merchants were fitted with depth charges. I don't think they had hydrophones, but it's been awhile since I read the relevant papers, and the memory is fuzzy.

I can tell you for a fact that in stock sh4, every merchant class larger than a sampan gets hydrophones by the end of the war. What I don't know is if they start with them or not or when they get them. As far as I can tell, tmo has not changed this. I could look in the files and find these questions out, but it would spoil the surprise . As for merchies with DCs, I really don't think that's in the game, except for the auxiliary sub chasers, which are in tmo. Both of these are smaller merchants, but do not act like merchants at all. Instead, they actively hunt for you just like a destroyer.