School is out, English courses are over

Skybird · 10-06-12, 10:05 AM

As anyone surely has realized, I use to produce plenty of typos, due to speed-typing on the keyboard without ever having learned it systematically. 9 of 10 errors you see in my words, is due to mistyping. Switching to Opera has started to lecture me a bit and may have made my postings less stressful to read, it has an auto-correction feature that indicates errors right at live typing. Rest assured, I did not mean to discriminate against English speakers - I produce as many typos when typing in German, too.

But occasionally I indeed fall for wrong knowledge of correct spelling. And one thing that totally confuses me time and again is when to use an "s" and when to use a "z" in words, for example "organising" or "organizing"? "Realising" or "realizing"? Is it always "z" in verbs, or is it mixed with some cases of using "s"? School is out for me since 27 years, and I cannot remember anymore whether there was any rule on this or not. And so I violently shuffle s's and z's and do not really know what I am doing there.

Any general rules?

Aviv · 10-06-12, 10:09 AM

It's a difference between British English and US English. In British English it is more usual to use an s (eg. realise) while in American English it is more often a z (eg. realize). This is the best I know, unless someone else can help out.

Oberon · 10-06-12, 10:15 AM

I believe Aviv is right, although words like civilization are more often seen in UK English with a z, whereas things like organisation are usually seen with an S. It varies from word to word I think.

Takeda Shingen · 10-06-12, 10:21 AM

Both Aviv and Oberon are exactly correct. The difference between British and American english can also be seen in additional u's (behaviour vs behavior) and s's (defence vs defense). For a non-native speaker such as yourself, either spelling would be appropriate.

Ultimately, it comes down to the fact that we American rubes have done our best over the centuries to butcher the King's english.

Jimbuna · 10-06-12, 10:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Takeda Shingen

Both Aviv and Oberon are exactly correct. The difference between British and American english can also be seen in additional u's (behaviour vs behavior) and s's (defence vs defense). For a non-native speaker such as yourself, either spelling would be appropriate.

Ultimately, it comes down to the fact that we American rubes have done our best over the centuries to butcher the King's english.

Pretty much succeeded as well

Tchocky · 10-06-12, 10:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Takeda Shingen

Ultimately, it comes down to the fact that we American rubes have done our best over the centuries to butcher

I half remember hearing that the American accent today is a closer approximation to spoken 18th-century English than UK English is today. So it's the limeys who have drifted!
Pinch of salt to be taken, I'd rather think that the Irish perfected spoken and written English around 1940 and the Anglophone world has been coasting since.

Quote:

the King's english.

He'd want to be!. Har har har.

Hottentot · 10-06-12, 10:29 AM

As forigner I zink zis is realy konfusink system und shud be replaced viz a nev one. Fortunately ze gud old EU is already workink on it:

The European Commission have just announced an agreement whereby
English will be the official language of the EU, rather than German, which
was the other possibility. As part of the negotiations, Her Majesty's
government conceded that English spelling had some room for improvement and
has accepted a five year phase in plan that would be known as "EuroEnglish".

In the first year, "s" will replace the soft "c". Sertainly, this will
make the sivil servants jump for joy. The hard "c" will be dropped in favour
of the "k". This should klear up konfusion and keyboards kan have 1 less
letter.

There will be growing publik enthusiasm in the sekond year, when the
troublesome "ph" will be replaced with the "f". This will make words like
"fotograf" 20% shorter.

In the third year, publik akseptanse of the new spelling kan be
expekted to reach the stage where more komplikated changes are possible.
Governments will enkorage the removal of double letters, which have always
ben a deterent to akurate speling. Also, al wil agre that the horible mes of
the silent "e"s in the language is disgraseful, and they should go away.

By the 4th year, peopl wil be reseptiv to steps such as replasing "th"
with "z" and "w" with "v".

During ze fifz year, ze unesesary "o" kan be dropd from vords
kontaining "ou" and similar changes vud of kors be aplid to ozer
kombinations of leters. After zis fifz year, ve vil hav a realy sensibl
riten styl. Zer vil be no mor trubls or difikultis and evrivun vil find it
ezi to understand each ozer

ZE DREAM VIL FINALI KUM TRU!

kranz · 10-06-12, 12:26 PM

I'm sooo happy that Skybird's problem has been solved <sighs with relief>

However, I have a similar problem, too, tho it's between 'n' and 'q'.
So, which is the correct form - Iran or Iraq ????

Oberon · 10-06-12, 12:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kranz

I'm sooo happy that Skybird's problem has been solved <sighs with relief>

However, I have a similar problem, too, tho it's between 'n' and 'q'.
So, which is the correct form - Iran or Iraq ????

Until 2003 the correct form was Iraq, however there was a change made around 2003 and now it's Iran.

kranz · 10-07-12, 05:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oberon

Until 2003 the correct form was Iraq, however there was a change made around 2003 and now it's Iran.

makes sense

can't wait to see when he gets to the lesson: the difference between record and record.

Skybird · 10-07-12, 05:43 AM

Thanks everybody. I knew the "o" versus "ou" thing being English and American, but "s" and "z" being a national thing too - well, reading here rang the echo of a distant memory. I probably have learned it back then, and then forgot again.

I will take relief from the info and mix all cases all within even just one sentence, but now I will enjoy it.

Onkel Neal · 10-07-12, 07:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skybird

As anyone surely has realized, I use to produce plenty of typos, due to speed-typing on the keyboard without ever having learned it systematically. 9 of 10 errors you see in my words, is due to mistyping. Switching to Opera has started to lecture me a bit and may have made my postings less stressful to read, it has an auto-correction feature that indicates errors right at live typing. Rest assured, I did not mean to discriminate against English speakers - I produce as many typos when typing in German, too.

But occasionally I indeed fall for wrong knowledge of correct spelling. And one thing that totally confuses me time and again is when to use an "s" and when to use a "z" in words, for example "organising" or "organizing"? "Realising" or "realizing"? Is it always "z" in verbs, or is it mixed with some cases of using "s"? School is out for me since 27 years, and I cannot remember anymore whether there was any rule on this or not. And so I violently shuffle s's and z's and do not really know what I am doing there.

Any general rules?

I think you are doing quite well, actually. A lot better than I could do in German, that's for sure.

eddie · 10-07-12, 12:45 PM

One thing in German that confuses me ( I don't speak German BTW), in typing out German words, which come first the a or the e. Which is correct, Jaeger or Jeager? Might not be the word to try this on, but I have been corrected several times by a friend from Hamburg.
We were talking about German Night Fighters from WWII, I wrote Nacht Jaegers, and got corrected pretty quick!

Herr-Berbunch · 10-07-12, 01:49 PM

I think you do alright, Sky, especially considering the amount of words you type. It wasn't so much spelling mistakes more of a misplacing on the space - you'd add the first letter of the next word to the previous word.

There are much worse English speakers on the forum, I understand >99% of what they type so you've got nothing to worry about.

Oberon · 10-07-12, 03:22 PM

I think Jagar has one of those crazy German umlat things on it which I can never find the correct shortcut for on the keyboard, so the English butchering of it is Jaegar, like Goring/Goering and Schroder/Schroeder. Generally I think you add an e after the letter with the umlat if you want to butcher it, or if your keyboard is too english.

Mind you, this is from an Englisher that regularly made a German cry at his abortive forays into the German language.

10-06-12, 10:05 AM	#1
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 42,602 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	School is out, English courses are over As anyone surely has realized, I use to produce plenty of typos, due to speed-typing on the keyboard without ever having learned it systematically. 9 of 10 errors you see in my words, is due to mistyping. Switching to Opera has started to lecture me a bit and may have made my postings less stressful to read, it has an auto-correction feature that indicates errors right at live typing. Rest assured, I did not mean to discriminate against English speakers - I produce as many typos when typing in German, too. But occasionally I indeed fall for wrong knowledge of correct spelling. And one thing that totally confuses me time and again is when to use an "s" and when to use a "z" in words, for example "organising" or "organizing"? "Realising" or "realizing"? Is it always "z" in verbs, or is it mixed with some cases of using "s"? School is out for me since 27 years, and I cannot remember anymore whether there was any rule on this or not. And so I violently shuffle s's and z's and do not really know what I am doing there. Any general rules? __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.

10-06-12, 10:09 AM	#2
Aviv Electrician's Mate Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Israel Posts: 132 Downloads: 237 Uploads: 0	It's a difference between British English and US English. In British English it is more usual to use an s (eg. realise) while in American English it is more often a z (eg. realize). This is the best I know, unless someone else can help out. __________________ "It’s Friday, Friday gotta get down on Friday, everybody’s looking forward to the weekend"

10-06-12, 10:29 AM	#7
Hottentot Sea Lord Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: My private socialist utopia of Finland Posts: 1,918 Downloads: 4 Uploads: 0	As forigner I zink zis is realy konfusink system und shud be replaced viz a nev one. Fortunately ze gud old EU is already workink on it: The European Commission have just announced an agreement whereby English will be the official language of the EU, rather than German, which was the other possibility. As part of the negotiations, Her Majesty's government conceded that English spelling had some room for improvement and has accepted a five year phase in plan that would be known as "EuroEnglish". In the first year, "s" will replace the soft "c". Sertainly, this will make the sivil servants jump for joy. The hard "c" will be dropped in favour of the "k". This should klear up konfusion and keyboards kan have 1 less letter. There will be growing publik enthusiasm in the sekond year, when the troublesome "ph" will be replaced with the "f". This will make words like "fotograf" 20% shorter. In the third year, publik akseptanse of the new spelling kan be expekted to reach the stage where more komplikated changes are possible. Governments will enkorage the removal of double letters, which have always ben a deterent to akurate speling. Also, al wil agre that the horible mes of the silent "e"s in the language is disgraseful, and they should go away. By the 4th year, peopl wil be reseptiv to steps such as replasing "th" with "z" and "w" with "v". During ze fifz year, ze unesesary "o" kan be dropd from vords kontaining "ou" and similar changes vud of kors be aplid to ozer kombinations of leters. After zis fifz year, ve vil hav a realy sensibl riten styl. Zer vil be no mor trubls or difikultis and evrivun vil find it ezi to understand each ozer ZE DREAM VIL FINALI KUM TRU! __________________ Хотели как лучше, а получилось как всегда.

10-07-12, 05:43 AM	#11
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 42,602 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	Thanks everybody. I knew the "o" versus "ou" thing being English and American, but "s" and "z" being a national thing too - well, reading here rang the echo of a distant memory. I probably have learned it back then, and then forgot again. I will take relief from the info and mix all cases all within even just one sentence, but now I will enjoy it. __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.

10-07-12, 12:45 PM	#13
eddie Ocean Warrior Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Minnesota Posts: 3,023 Downloads: 99 Uploads: 0	One thing in German that confuses me ( I don't speak German BTW), in typing out German words, which come first the a or the e. Which is correct, Jaeger or Jeager? Might not be the word to try this on, but I have been corrected several times by a friend from Hamburg. We were talking about German Night Fighters from WWII, I wrote Nacht Jaegers, and got corrected pretty quick! __________________ Don't mistake my kindness for weakness. I'm kind to everyone, but when someone is unkind to me, weak is not what you are going to remember about me. Al Capone

10-06-12, 10:15 AM	#3
Oberon Lucky Jack Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 25,976 Downloads: 61 Uploads: 20	I believe Aviv is right, although words like civilization are more often seen in UK English with a z, whereas things like organisation are usually seen with an S. It varies from word to word I think.

10-06-12, 10:21 AM	#4
Takeda Shingen Navy Seal Join Date: Mar 2000 Posts: 8,643 Downloads: 19 Uploads: 0	Both Aviv and Oberon are exactly correct. The difference between British and American english can also be seen in additional u's (behaviour vs behavior) and s's (defence vs defense). For a non-native speaker such as yourself, either spelling would be appropriate. Ultimately, it comes down to the fact that we American rubes have done our best over the centuries to butcher the King's english.

10-06-12, 12:26 PM	#8
kranz The Old Man Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Poland Posts: 1,430 Downloads: 5 Uploads: 0	I'm sooo happy that Skybird's problem has been solved <sighs with relief> However, I have a similar problem, too, tho it's between 'n' and 'q'. So, which is the correct form - Iran or Iraq ????

10-07-12, 01:49 PM	#14
Herr-Berbunch Kaiser Bill's batman Join Date: May 2010 Location: AN72 Posts: 13,203 Downloads: 76 Uploads: 0	I think you do alright, Sky, especially considering the amount of words you type. It wasn't so much spelling mistakes more of a misplacing on the space - you'd add the first letter of the next word to the previous word. There are much worse English speakers on the forum, I understand >99% of what they type so you've got nothing to worry about. __________________

10-07-12, 03:22 PM	#15
Oberon Lucky Jack Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 25,976 Downloads: 61 Uploads: 20	I think Jagar has one of those crazy German umlat things on it which I can never find the correct shortcut for on the keyboard, so the English butchering of it is Jaegar, like Goring/Goering and Schroder/Schroeder. Generally I think you add an e after the letter with the umlat if you want to butcher it, or if your keyboard is too english. Mind you, this is from an Englisher that regularly made a German cry at his abortive forays into the German language.