Bad weather : Love and Hate

[VonApist]

U53 positioned in the Irish Sea, weather is apalling. Hydrophone pinpoint towars a merchant coming my way. Visibility less that 500m. Using hydro readings i map the targets course, surface to position myself quickly and at a 90 degree angle. Submerge at 10m periscope up.

All i can see is rain and waves. According to my hydrophones, target is at bearing 350. I finally see her, Large Merchant no escorts. But i barely can get a good look at it and its only 400m away! As the distance is very short, i choose Tube 1 , low speed magnetic (they usually arm quicker than impact). Fire! and Dud!! Tube 2 fires and explodes before it reaches the target (probably due to extreme weather?).

The Merchant is now at bearing 030 and i dont want to risk a shot at this angle at this weather. I change course and follow it. I move away, surface and reposition myself ahead again at 90 degrees . Waiting for her to come and here she is. F**k magnetic. 2 more Tubes, set to impact fire both. And i do. Distance 420m. First one impact, second one a Dud (again!). And it has nothing to do with angle of fire it was perfect. Probably distance. Merchant hit. But wont go down. I follow her for 45 min game time and even though the weather is terrible she is still afloat.

No option for deck guns as i cannot man due to weather. Tube 1 reloaded. Coup de Grace and thank god, no dud this time. But it took me 5 torps to bring her down and im still on a VIIB - so not much room to spare.

Next time i will try for a longer, hydropone shot....

Suggestions?

[VONHARRIS]

I would have gone with the longer range hydrophone shot.
It has a "small" disadvantage though: You can not visually identify the targets' nationality.
But since the attack took place in the Irish sea most chances are that she was a British ship.
And I wouldn't have fired a magnetic pistol torpedo in that weather.
In fact I never use magnetic pistols.

One question: With the term Irish sea do you refer to grids AM 51 52 53 54 or the area between England and Ireland?

[VonApist]

I refer to the Celtic Channel (between ireland and britain). The only reason i used magnetic was the fact that the range was too small and i was afraid that impacts they wouldnt be able to arm on time. Magnetics in such weather are a risk as well, i know... tough choice when range is at 400m

[Johnfb]

All weather deck guns....

[Fish In The Water]

Originally Posted by Johnfb

All weather deck guns....

Honestly these deck gunners are almost as delicate as baseball players...

First glimpse of rain and they call the game!

[Johnfb]

Originally Posted by Fish In The Water

Honestly these deck gunners are almost as delicate as baseball players...

First glimpse of rain and they call the game!

[Jimbuna]

Originally Posted by VonApist

I refer to the Celtic Channel (between ireland and britain). The only reason i used magnetic was the fact that the range was too small and i was afraid that impacts they wouldnt be able to arm on time. Magnetics in such weather are a risk as well, i know... tough choice when range is at 400m

All torpedoes arm after travelling 300m regardles of what setting you have them at.

The only exception is the late war Falke which arms after 400m.

[VONHARRIS]

Originally Posted by VonApist

I refer to the Celtic Channel (between ireland and britain).

I wouldn't drive my IX in there for anything!
You DO like to take risks, don't you?

[desirableroasted]

Originally Posted by VonApist

U53 positioned in the Irish Sea, weather is apalling. Hydrophone pinpoint towars a merchant coming my way. Visibility less that 500m. Using hydro readings i map the targets course, surface to position myself quickly and at a 90 degree angle. Submerge at 10m periscope up.

All i can see is rain and waves. According to my hydrophones, target is at bearing 350. I finally see her, Large Merchant no escorts. But i barely can get a good look at it and its only 400m away! As the distance is very short, i choose Tube 1 , low speed magnetic (they usually arm quicker than impact). Fire! and Dud!! Tube 2 fires and explodes before it reaches the target (probably due to extreme weather?).

The Merchant is now at bearing 030 and i dont want to risk a shot at this angle at this weather. I change course and follow it. I move away, surface and reposition myself ahead again at 90 degrees . Waiting for her to come and here she is. F**k magnetic. 2 more Tubes, set to impact fire both. And i do. Distance 420m. First one impact, second one a Dud (again!). And it has nothing to do with angle of fire it was perfect. Probably distance. Merchant hit. But wont go down. I follow her for 45 min game time and even though the weather is terrible she is still afloat.

No option for deck guns as i cannot man due to weather. Tube 1 reloaded. Coup de Grace and thank god, no dud this time. But it took me 5 torps to bring her down and im still on a VIIB - so not much room to spare.

Next time i will try for a longer, hydropone shot....

Suggestions?

1) Torpedoes arm at 300, whether you have set them to impact or magnetic/impact. As Jimbuna points out, some arm at further distances later.

2) If you are shooting at 90AOB or thereabouts, you want to aim into the hull at about 2 meters (depending on the ship). Don't try for an under-the-hull magnetic detonation, since it will go off, if it goes off, a few meters on the other side of the ship, with little damage.

3) Though when she was at 30, and you could maneuver into a gyroangle of 350-010, that is exactly when you should have tried a magnetic under the hull shot. Probably would have sunk her.

4) Don't shoot in rotten weather like that. You have no tactical oversight, and you risk losing the crippled merchant in the murk. And you cannot finish it off with the deck gun even if you do find it.

Remember that you have 36K kilometers of fuel when you leave port. You can afford to be choosy.

[King_Zog]

Originally Posted by desirableroasted

1)
2) If you are shooting at 90AOB or thereabouts, you want to aim into the hull at about 2 meters (depending on the ship). Don't try for an under-the-hull magnetic detonation, since it will go off, if it goes off, a few meters on the other side of the ship, with little damage.

Actually ,I find that in my experience magnetics work just as fine for under the keel AOB90 shots as they do for oblique angle shots.

I have tested this in a practice shooting gallery type mission I made and had no problems.

Although I agree if you are in position for an AOB90 shot, you might aswell use an impact, as there is always a very slight chance of premature detonation with a magnetic, which becomes much more likely in heavy weather.

One thing I have noticed which I can't be sure of as it will need testing further:

To me there does not seem to be any difference in explosive power between impact and under the keel magnetic detonations. It seems to me that shot placement is the only thing that counts if you are going for 1 torp sinkings. I wonder if anyone has looked at the game files and knows for sure?

[Gargamel]

Originally Posted by King_Zog

Actually ,I find that in my experience magnetics work just as fine for under the keel AOB90 shots as they do for oblique angle shots.

I have tested this in a practice shooting gallery type mission I made and had no problems.

Although I agree if you are in position for an AOB90 shot, you might aswell use an impact, as there is always a very slight chance of premature detonation with a magnetic, which becomes much more likely in heavy weather.

One thing I have noticed which I can't be sure of as it will need testing further:

To me there does not seem to be any difference in explosive power between impact and under the keel magnetic detonations. It seems to me that shot placement is the only thing that counts if you are going for 1 torp sinkings. I wonder if anyone has looked at the game files and knows for sure?

\

[desirableroasted]

Originally Posted by King_Zog

Actually ,I find that in my experience magnetics work just as fine for under the keel AOB90 shots as they do for oblique angle shots.

They will almost always go off at low speeds (a TI at high speed under a narrow hull, though, may not), but tend to explode on the other side. When that happens, I do not get a "torpedo impact" message (even though the explosion is obvious), and the damage to the target is often remarkably slight, and is always on the far side of the target). For a small merchant, it may be enough, but I find it a wasted torp for a large target.

Originally Posted by King_Zog

To me there does not seem to be any difference in explosive power between impact and under the keel magnetic detonations. It seems to me that shot placement is the only thing that counts if you are going for 1 torp sinkings.

I'd say shot placement is the single most important factor, but not all of the equation. A magnetic under the forward crane of a passenger/cargo, for example, can snap it in two. Sent in as an impact, you are more often than not going to spend hours waiting for her to sink.

All my torps go into the tubes set to impact, and are unchangable without pulling them from the tubes and reloading. Therefor I fall into the Novice group when dealing with magnetics. Desirableroasted is the source for good information there.

Now on to the rest of it.
Surface attack? In a heavily patroled area like The Irish Sea, with Heavy Fog?!
Wow! You realy have to be tonnage hungry to go that route.

For those "I just have to do this" occassions that arise, I'd either risk a hydrophone attack (risks are stated above) or, preferably an angled shot at a 90 degree angle, IF the target shows itself.

Although I usualy pass on Heavy Fog attacks, I too have been guilty of partaking.
As I'm usualy very generiouse with torpedoes anyway, these kinds of attacks are not a good idé for me. They can realy eat up a torpedo loadout, fast.

[King_Zog]

Originally Posted by desirableroasted

They will almost always go off at low speeds (a TI at high speed under a narrow hull, though, may not), but tend to explode on the other side. When that happens, I do not get a "torpedo impact" message (even though the explosion is obvious), and the damage to the target is often remarkably slight, and is always on the far side of the target). For a small merchant, it may be enough, but I find it a wasted torp for a large target.

Well, I positioned myself in the sh3 editor for a perfect AOB90 shot at 500 meters from the target. For the test subject I picked a tramp steamer which the recognition manual states has a draft of 6.5 meters. The target was stationary.

My AOB90 position was such that I was pointed perfectly at the forward area of the ship, between the two forward cranes. This was so I could aim at the sweetspot while ensuring the torpedo would make a straight run.

I set the torpedo depth to 10 meters just to be sure it would pass under the keel. I also removed the mod I usually use that makes the ships sit a little heavier in the water.
I fired the torpedo on the fast setting, normally I shoot on medium speed but I figured fast would be more appropriate for the test. It detonated directly under the keel (I checked with the external camera). The ship then quickly sank.

I kept repeating this and kept getting the exact same result with no mishaps.

The only way I could make the torpedo overshoot was to set its depth even deeper so the torpedo would just run under the target and not explode.

I then tried it with a small freighter and then a large merchant just to be sure the smaller ships were not just sunk by 'splash' damage (bad joke).
Apart from adjusting the torpedo depth everything was done in the same way. Same results again.

Now please don't misunderstand me, I am not arguing with your play style. And I am not trying to suggest AOB90 with magnetics is a some kind of wonderful tonnage winning strategy. It is not. All I am stating is that contrary to what many SH3 players believe, AOB90 shots with magnetics are indeed viable and will sink ships whether in Sh3 Editor or on patrol.

[desirableroasted]

Originally Posted by King_Zog

Same results again.

Now please don't misunderstand me, I am not arguing with your play style. And I am not trying to suggest AOB90 with magnetics is a some kind of wonderful tonnage winning strategy. It is not. All I am stating is that contrary to what many SH3 players believe, AOB90 shots with magnetics are indeed viable and will sink ships whether in Sh3 Editor or on patrol.

Not at all, I am a big fan of research. And I have sunk targets with 90AOB magnetics, but the failure rate has been (in my experience) unacceptably high. But given your results, I will try more often and report back.

Originally Posted by Snestorm

All my torps go into the tubes set to impact, and are unchangable without pulling them from the tubes and reloading. Therefor I fall into the Novice group when dealing with magnetics. Desirableroasted is the source for good information there.

Whether your shots are impact or magnetic need not be more than a function of depth setting. All "magnetics" are actually "impact/magnetics" ... a "magnetic" hitting a hull at 90AOB will act as an impact, and one passing under the hull will (try to) act like a magnetic.

So, in fact, there is never any need to switch from "M" to "I," unless you want a safety factor in really rough weather AND know you want an impact shot.

(And, BTW, I know jussssst enough to get myself in trouble out there.)