Ship sinking times

[themrwho]

Hi,

Enjoying my newly learned manual targetting skills, after hours of maneuvering I ended up with a paper full of observation data - times of observation, speed, course etc.

It's so much fun if the "Torpedo impact!" comes after manual labour.

While at it, I also noted down ship sinking times, I knew it always took some time to flood-sink a ship with GWX, but what I didn't knew was it could take so long.

Figures below is what I've recorded in my last patrol with GWX 3.0 Gold.

Do you have any similar records?

I would also like to hear about 'record' long times if you have any off the top of your head.

Thanks

• "Granville" Freighter (4650 t)
  • "Torpedo Impact!" @ 07:22
  • "She's Going Down!" @ 12:18
  • Time to Sink = 4 hrs 56 mins
    [with a single torpedo, which according to Das Boot, costed DM25.000... no wonder why we lost the war ]

• another "Granville" Freighter (4650 t)
  • "Torpedo Impact!" @ 22:45
  • "She's Going Down!" @ 04:36
  • Time to Sink = 5 hrs 51 mins

[K-61]

I've waited for hours of game time for a ship to sink. I'd guess that when I see the lifeboats paddling away that she's sinking, but I saw one ship sail on for hours afterwards. In my previous patrol I got credit for a sinking in my logbook and hours later it was still afloat. After I broke off from the convoy and sailed away, she was still sitting there. I fired a few deck gun rounds at it just to put it under. I didn't want the British to "salvage" it.

[frau kaleun]

If you have realistic sinking times selected in your realism options, it will take longer for ships to go down. Especially with only one torpedo hit on a medium or larger ship. A lot also depends on where you hit her and whether you used an impact only or a magnetic fuse.

I think the longest time I ever kept track of was well over two hours, maybe closer to three. That was for an ore carrier IIRC, one torpedo to the bow section in pretty heavy seas. Had the seas been calmer and had I not been in great position and range to choose my desired detonation point pretty much at will, I don't think I would've tried to take her down with only one eel (it was too rough to finish her off with the guns). But blowing a hole out from under her bow, combined with the rough seas, was enough do the job. I just had to wait for nature to finish what I started.

Hitting the bow section seems to help, particularly in rougher seas, as the ship's forward momentum will (in theory) cause even more water to be scooped up and into the hole you made.

And an eel set with a magnetic fuse that runs just deep enough to detonate directly below the keel, or at least much farther below the waterline than would be possible with an impact fuse, will cause far more damage, and more immediately critical damage, than blowing a hole in the side of a ship just below the waterline with an impact torpedo.

Also, hitting the engine room or fuel tanks or ammo holds (if it's an armed ship) should also be more likely to result in fires, explosions, or other nasty things that will sink a target faster.

I think I also remember reading that hitting a ship at the spot where a bulkhead separates two compartments belowdecks may also do more immediate damage and result in a faster sinking, because it can cause flooding in both compartments. I seem to remember that a good rule of thumb for this was aiming for a spot directly below one of the ship's masts? But I could be wrong.

I know there is or was a chart showing the different "hit points" of the various ships in the game, giving an indication of which spots on each vessel were more "valuable" in terms of doing enough damage to actually sink her. I don't have it but I'm sure someone else can provide a link to it.

[Kapt Z]

Honestly I am just too impatient to hang around very long waiting for a ship to sink.

If it's safe I will surface and finish them off with the deck gun. If they're armed or it's in a aircraft zone they'll get another torpedo. I may end up using more torpedoes that way, but I prefer to make sure they're 'down' and get out of the area pronto.

[frau kaleun]

Originally Posted by Kapt Z

Honestly I am just too impatient to hang around very long waiting for a ship to sink.

If it's safe I will surface and finish them off with the deck gun. If they're armed or it's in a aircraft zone they'll get another torpedo. I may end up using more torpedoes that way, but I prefer to make sure they're 'down' and get out of the area pronto.

Depends on location for me, but I'm pretty much the same way. If I'm anywhere that gives me reason to worry about enemy aircraft or other armed assistance showing up, I'll finish 'em off with another torpedo.

If I'm not in range (AFAIK) of anything too dangerous, I'll wait around for a while - but if I've got gun ammo on hand I'd just as soon get it over with that way if the sea state allows for it.

[Tessa]

Originally Posted by K-61

I've waited for hours of game time for a ship to sink. I'd guess that when I see the lifeboats paddling away that she's sinking, but I saw one ship sail on for hours afterwards. In my previous patrol I got credit for a sinking in my logbook and hours later it was still afloat. After I broke off from the convoy and sailed away, she was still sitting there. I fired a few deck gun rounds at it just to put it under. I didn't want the British to "salvage" it.

The ships have a AI simulated type of counter-flooding/closing bulkheads that is done when a real ship takes enough damage to be in danger of sinking or listing too heavily. Basic idea being if your torpedo blew a hole in the straight middle of the ship water would start going in both directions through any open hatch (or with enough pressure blow through it, though need a larger ship or harsh weather for that), crew then tries to evacuate as many people towards the stern/forecastle closing all the hatches behing them to create trapped pocked of air enough to keep the ship afloat. Listing is an even more serious problem (though good for the player) that the captain has to order the opposite side of the ship to start a controlled flood to try and either stop the listing or get her back to 0. Obvious danger is they're putting in more water to try while some is still flooding in from the hole and can easily sink itself; or the situation became uncontrollable and the order to abandon ship was given (like in the case of the Lexington when it sank).

End wall of text

Short answer if you want shorter sinking times, use magnetic fuses and aim them about 0.5-1.1 meters below the ships keel (easy to find in the recognition manual, merchant and misc ships are all in an unlabelled section, when you first click on the book go backwards one and you'll see it) depending on where you are (harbor, open sea, shallow water) and adjust the depth accordingly. General rule of thumb the rougher the weather the deeper you should have it run - like aiming at a large merchant in gale I'd put the torpedo to run at just a click past 11 meters (making it like 11.1) and usually get great success rates. Rough weather is your friend (unless you don't have the stabalize scope option clicked, then it can really cause motion sickness just from trying to aim at the ship).

To maximize the damage there are spots on various ships that can cause them (large 10,000+ ton) ships to sink with just 1 eel. Best AOB is 45 degress to maximize the surface area of the keel to the torpedo (a 0 or 180 heading is also ideal if they are steady on the course, running under the entire length of the keel will ensure an explosion somewhere. Can't go into all the details for all ships, but for example on a modern tanker aiming at the forward tank, with the target being just under the cargo boom towers (don't know exactly what they're actually called) and on a good day it'll sink immediately, otherwise wait awhile (usually 20-30 minutes) and it'll have flooded enough to sink; faster if in open water with bad weather. Warships always aim under the turrets, they're the most volatile spot on the ship being where the magazines are. Detonation under both turrets (fore and aft) will generally sink any warship instantly, or will eventually sink very fast; unless its slow moving that's a very difficult shot to make.

K-61, to comment on your approach I've found it to be the best way to get the most ships from a convoy. First shot on any ship use magnetic setting/depth and hope it cripples it enough to either sink, or reduce its speed to 1 or 0 knots. Something not moving amkes no sense wasting an eel on it when the convoy is just going to leave it behind. If still moving at convoy speed or maybe just 1 or 2 knots slower 2nd one use impact. Will usually sink it, or at least slow it down enough so it will also drop out of the convoy. Ships moving at 0 knots generally are about to go down, unless its late in the war and the ship is armed with a decent size cannon (something that will hurt you at 1000+ meters) usually only a couple shots, or even 1 shot will finish them off before any kind of air support can arrive.

Not every ship sunk in a wham bam thank you mama way during WWII.
After the war many sinkings were found not to be sinkings.
VonHelshing spent MANY months working the damages for GW.
I still think that it's the best damage model out there.
And I try to duplicate his work for any new Unit I create.
Sure there are ways around it.
But I LOVE those slow sinkers!


It makes the Game for me.

[K-61]

Don't get me wrong, I'm not looking for shorter sinking times, merely commenting on the wide variety of sinking times when using the longer sinking time mod. It adds a great deal more variety to the game and uncertainty as to when a ship is going to sink. I prefer not to use magnetic pistols early in the war or in very rough weather due to the odds of premature detonations, though I will risk them at short range. They are a great tool when firing from angles where an impact pistol could deflect.

[Kapt Z]

Originally Posted by K-61

Don't get me wrong, I'm not looking for shorter sinking times, merely commenting on the wide variety of sinking times when using the longer sinking time mod. It adds a great deal more variety to the game and uncertainty as to when a ship is going to sink.

I agree. I'm not complaining either. Too many ships just blew up and sank with one torpedo in stock SH3. That I find myself using 2-3 torpedoes sometimes to confirm a sinking is frustrating, but I feel a very realistic situation.

On the rare occasions I do play?
I enjoy the fact that I never know if or when a Ship will sink.
Stock SH3 never captured my attention like that.
It only managed to get me to look into Mods and then start modding myself.

[Tessa]

Originally Posted by privateer

Not every ship sunk in a wham bam thank you mama way during WWII.
After the war many sinkings were found not to be sinkings.
VonHelshing spent MANY months working the damages for GW.
I still think that it's the best damage model out there.
And I try to duplicate his work for any new Unit I create.
Sure there are ways around it.
But I LOVE those slow sinkers!


It makes the Game for me.

After the war all the countries eventually got around to exchanging information about ships to find out if they were sunk or not and compare it against what was claimed lost. Though rare, few times captains underestimated and claim less than the actual tonnage. His work is impressive to say the least, compiling all that info would be rough having to deal with so many archives to go through.

There were other factors unique to wwii though that created situations that allowed for sinking freightors with a single eel. When liberty ships were first constructed and used their hulls were weak in the middle, in the cold north atlantic water it made them brittle and with one hit straight in the middle they'd usually crack in half! Eventually they fixed the problem but for awhile they were just about as safe as being in the submarine trying to hunt it!

[Flaxpants]

I love the GWX damage model, you're never really sure what's going to happen when you hit 'em. Once when I was attacking a convoy I hit, amongst other things, an imperial type freighter. It took a hit near the bow, started to list to the left and the front, which was obviously flooded dropped down in the water. But not enough to sink her, and off she went, albeit at a slow speed seemingly injured but still able to continue.

I couldn't finish the job as I was too busy trying to avoid depth charges by this point. That stuck in my mind and made the whole encounter very memorable. Great stuff.

[maillemaker]

wham bam thank you mama

I think you're going it wrong...

[frau kaleun]

Originally Posted by maillemaker

I think you're going it wrong...

FAIL.

[Gerald]

In my patrol (mission), I work with war ships and they have a significantly faster time to go to the bottom,and it is not surprising then they are loaded with quite a lot of ammo and they explode normally,when you hit right