Features in SH1 and Aces That Have Since "Disappeared"

[Subnuts]

So we've all been mourning the loss of the last two years of the war and every other boat except the VII. I sympathize with that. But it got me thinking: what did those "golden oldie" subsims I, and many of you, played for hundreds of hours "back in the days," have that the new crop doesn't?

As it turns out, a lot.

Please note that I'm referring to the OOB versions of SH3 and SH4, without mods. I'm just going to ignore SH2 altogether (I'm sure most of us have forgotten it...but not entirely forgiven it.)

Feel free to add to this list. I'm sure it's nowhere near complete.

In both sims:

• Tenacious escorts that don't give up after 45 minutes.

• Realistic damage repair times - fixing a diesel could take hours or even days, not minutes.
• Interviews, submarine photo tours, and historical background info included on the CD.
• ASDIC that behaved as it did in real life.
• Submarine types that felt radically different from one another (the Fleet Boats in SH1 all had their unique qualities; in SH4, they're all kind of samey.)
• Large, readable depth, speed, and course gauges.
• Cut-scenes and newspaper headlines after your patrol if you've been killed, captured, promoted, or awarded a medal.
• Working time compression.
• Propeller sounds that seemed realistically loud - a destroyer passing overhead doesn't sound like a flea buzz, folks.
• A sonar guy who isn't deaf.
• Ability to bottom sub without continuously incurring damage.
• Possibility of chlorine gas release due to flooding reaching the batteries.
• More accurate compressed air usage.
• Comprehensive quick mission generator.
• 50 or more historic single missions included straight out of the box.
• Abandon ship option.
• Manuals that focused on gameplay, rather than extraneous fluff.
• Ability to play without an internet connection.
• Possibility of fog in calm seas.
• Bottoming the boat makes you harder to detect early-war.
• Damage control screen that actually explains how the damage effects your ability to operate.
• Enemy patrol planes that operate independently rather than in entire squadrons.

In Aces:

• Wolfpacks (duh!)
• Radio traffic from BDU and other boats.
• Air-dropped homing torpedoes from Allied aircraft, and Foxer torpedo decoys.
• Updates on the progress of the war (i.e., the bar).
• Convoys that could be detected on hydrophones from up to 50 miles away.
• "Smoke on the horizon, Captain!"
• Possibility of getting your boat stuck in the mud.
• Shaft damage effecting underwater stealthiness.
• Silent running rendering pumps useless.
• Leaking when diving below 180 meters.
• Ability to empty bilges using compressed air.
• Randomized tonnage for merchants instead of a fixed displacement - a "small merchant" could vary anywhere between 1,000 and 2,500 tons.

In SH1:

• Ships that maneuvered realistically to evade steam torpedoes, not accelerating to 20 knots in 5 seconds and double-backing into the torpedo they were trying to avoid.
• AI submarines with torpedoes.
• Easily readable radar display with SD and SJ radars that worked as advertised and were reasonably historically accurate.
• An idiot-proof interface with nice 2D panels, rather than clicking through menus in SH3 or deciphering religious symbols in SH4.
• A single TDC panel, without an "attack map" behind it.
• The ability to jettison debris.
• Ability to start a career any month between December 1941 and August 1945
• A versatile periscope interface that could show maneuvering gauges or TDC elements.
• An ID manual with different warship types sorted by their type (BB, CA, DD, etc.), along with information on their armament.
• A calendar with sunrise, sunset, moon rise, moon set, and moon phase information.
• A working bathythermograph and randomized thermoclines.
• Ability to turn red lights on and off.
• Credit for ships damaged in single missions.
• Ability to use "high scope" technique.
• Detailed mission editor included with Commander's Edition.
• Ability to abandon ship while stuck on the bottom in shallow water (see USS Tang)
• Possibility of damage to electric motors due to flooding.
• Calendar with lunar phases, moon and sun rise and set times, and the weather.

[Ducimus]

Sad, isn't it?

[razark]

For SHI, a manual that actually describes the game, the war, the real submarines and tactics, in part written by an actual sub commander.

A calendar with sunrise, sunset, moon rise, moon set, and moon phase information.

Bathythermograph. Air search radar that only displayed range and not bearing. Ability to turn on/off red lights. Abandon ship option. Surface radar that detects land masses. Compressed air. The ability to bottom the sub. In AotD, the ability to get the sub stuck in the mud. Chlorine gas from flooding reaching the batteries. The bar in AotD.

Just a few missing things.

Edit: Ack! How could I forget, from AotD, "Smoke on the horizon!"

[dcb]

Plus I remember in the old SH1, I was also credited for the ships I damaged, but did not sink.

[jazman]

You guys are ruining my day.

[Obltn Strand]

Escort strenght of convoys and possibility of finding unescorted ones when historically appropiate.

[Capt. Morgan]

SH1:

Thermoclines were randomized, you never knew if there was one, and at what depth, until you made a test dive. They also changed depth over time/distance.

Raising the periscope on the surface gave you greater visual range.

Ran beautifully on Linux via Dosbox (and Winders too, I guess)

Now Flight Simulator, They know how to upgrade their sim. I've had most every version from Flight simulator II (for the Commie 64) to Microsoft's FS9, and in every new release, they've always just added new features, and never removed old ones.

[kptn_kaiserhof]

and the very first 3d control room but no crew

[d@rk51d3]

Remember getting prop and/or shaft damage that would give your position away, if you tried to sneak away while damaged?

[V.C. Sniper]

Both have simple graphics that doesn't require the amount of time needed to build and maintain like the graphics of today, therefore more time can be spent on adding new realistic/simulation features.



SAD. Developers have to reinvent the wheel everytime a new game is being developed and forgot much of what was learned from building previous games.

[Lanzfeld]

This is sad as ****!

I fell in love with subsims for all the above reasons and now all those reasons are gone because some needledicks feel they always have to reinvent the wheel to impress the A.D.D. idiots of the world.

I want Aces back with modern graphics...THAT IS ALL!!!!

[sayaret]

SH1 lot of stock and even more custom made historic scenarios.

[Hartmann]

Originally Posted by Subnuts

So we've all been mourning the loss of the last two years of the war and every other boat except the VII. I sympathize with that. But it got me thinking: what did those "golden oldie" subsims I, and many of you, played for hundreds of hours "back in the days," have that the new crop doesn't?

As it turns out, a lot.

Please note that I'm referring to the OOB versions of SH3 and SH4, without mods. I'm just going to ignore SH2 altogether (I'm sure most of us have forgotten it...but not entirely forgiven it.)

Feel free to add to this list. I'm sure it's nowhere near complete.

In both sims:

• Tenacious escorts that don't give up after 45 minutes.

• Realistic damage repair times - fixing a diesel could take hours or even days, not minutes.
• Interviews, submarine photo tours, and historical background info included on the CD.
• ASDIC that behaved as it did in real life.
• Submarine types that felt radically different from one another (the Fleet Boats in SH1 all had their unique qualities; in SH4, they're all kind of samey.)
• Large, readable depth, speed, and course gauges.
• Cut-scenes and newspaper headlines after your patrol if you've been killed, captured, promoted, or awarded a medal.
• Working time compression.
• Propeller sounds that seemed realistically loud - a destroyer passing overhead doesn't sound like a flea buzz, folks.
• A sonar guy who isn't deaf.

In Aces:

• Wolfpacks (duh!)
• Radio traffic from BDU and other boats.
• Air-dropped homing torpedoes from Allied aircraft, and Foxer torpedo decoys.
• Updates on the progress of the war.
• Convoys that could be detected on hydrophones from up to 50 miles away.

In SH1:

• Ships that maneuvered realistically to evade steam torpedoes, not accelerating to 20 knots in 5 seconds and double-backing into the torpedo they were trying to avoid.
• AI submarines with torpedoes.
• SD and SJ radar that worked as described, were easily readable, and had usable range readouts.
• An idiot-proof interface with nice 2D panels, rather than clicking through menus in SH3 or deciphering religious symbols in SH4.
• A single TDC panel, without an "attack map" behind it.
• The ability to jettison debris.
• Ability to start a career any month between December 1941 and August 1945
• A versatile periscope interface that could show maneuvering gauges or TDC elements.
• An ID manual with different warship types sorted by their type (BB, CA, DD, etc.)

in sh1 a flooding in the electric motor room cause damage to the motors after some time, as in real life with electric systems

In sh 1 Fight against Ia boats that dive and fire torpedos, i found some of them at night in the radar thinking that was a sanpan until it dives ! the most exciting experience that i had ever in a subsim, the hunt of another submarine ( i had to follow and plot an intercept ) course because it dives sometimes as in real life did japanese subs.

SH1 Possibility to abandon ship

in Aces of the deep, Realistic bilge gauge, stay under in silent running with the pumps stopped makes that water raises until you switch on the pumps again. ( more noise) unless you use compressed air.

Aces of the deep, fog in calm seas and no rain

[Subnuts]

I've just updated the list, including recommendations from you guys and a few other things I've thought of overnight.

Man. How freaking depressing. The quick mission generators from Aces and SH1 were both awesome - you could set the weather, escort size, the possibility of air cover, enemy skill, the time of day...but BAM! It suddenly disappeared in SH3.

[TwistedFemur]

Originally Posted by Capt. Morgan

SH1:

Thermoclines were randomized, you never knew if there was one, and at what depth, until you made a test dive. They also changed depth over time/distance.

Raising the periscope on the surface gave you greater visual range.

Ran beautifully on Linux via Dosbox (and Winders too, I guess)

Now Flight Simulator, They know how to upgrade their sim. I've had most every version from Flight simulator II (for the Commie 64) to Microsoft's FS9, and in every new release, they've always just added new features, and never removed old ones.

And now FS is gone too